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  1. When someone of legal age gets hurt it looks bad on the sport becuase some crazy person did something stupid. When a 16-17 year old gets hurt doing the same exact thing, it is a HUGE news story that makes our sport look TERRIBLE! Who would let her jump a that age?, that poor child should never have been doing that!, why would those people allow this to happen? , etc. It is always a huge black eye to the sport when someone "young" gets hurt more so than when someone that is an "adult" does. "TREE!" - D.B. Cooper 1971
  2. This girl will not be right ever again. She will have to live with these injuries for the rest of her life. Show me one skydiver we know that has been hurt badly and had many, many surgeries that have healed completley and are "normal". We can't. I hope she recovers and can live a normal life and this is just a bad patch for her. It is sad that this happened and it could have happened to any one of us (no matter what age). It would be nice to say it will never happen again but we all jump and that is part of our sport so we can't. "TREE!" - D.B. Cooper 1971
  3. I have never hid the fact that I don't like Start and how the do business. And as you said "everyone knows" it. So theres no mystery there? Also, most of you know who I am so no need to go down that road. This thread is about if minors should be jumping. Please stay on subject or it will get locked. This poor girl is going to have to live with two broken femurs, a broken pelvis, and a broken jaw for the rest of her life. It was her choice and her parents let her do it. I just don't think the risk is worth putting newbies (under the 18) is worth that chance. IMO "TREE!" - D.B. Cooper 1971
  4. To clarify my post...I simply ask a questoin as to what happens next? Why is everyone so quick to think that this is a shot at Start? If anything it is a shot at the USPA. There are DZ's that allow minors to skydive and as long as the USPA allows it they, will continue to take minors up and their money. What needs to be clear is what are the laws (in this case Ohio) for a minor when the parents sign the consent form when something terrible like this happens? Here is a a new article from the Middletown Journal: http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/middletown-news/skydiver-defends-firms-safety-record-974540.html You want it, here comes a shot at Start....notice how they hide behind Team Fasttrax (as usual). They can't even step to the plate and put their NAME on something that happened at their DZ! Total bush league! Grow some hair on your beanbag Start and admit when you have a problem and you are working on it. Don't push it to someone else. There is your shot!!! "TREE!" - D.B. Cooper 1971
  5. So you agree with me that no one under the age of 18 should jump because there is a HUGE risk that legal action will take place when a "minor" is injured skydiving? Regaurdless of who signed what? Am I understanding you correctly? "TREE!" - D.B. Cooper 1971
  6. I do have a grip about this topic. Respectfully, I don't believe you do. It isn't about how far OVER the age of 18 it is, it's about if you are UNDER the age of 18. There are people at every DZ that shouldn't be jumping whether it is age related, physical, mental (in most skydiver cases) or whatever. That is not the point. The question is whether a "minor" should be able to have their parents sign their rights away. In the U.S. just to be clear. I have said it before and will stand strong when I say NO! There are too many ambulance chasing lawyers that drool over a case like this and can't wait to burn a DZ to the ground if they can make money off of it. If 16 seems to be the magic number than the Tandem industry and USPA need to make it 16 WITHOUT parental concent. But what about the 14yr old...or the 12yr old....or 9. It just opens the flood gate for disaster of our sport. "TREE!" - D.B. Cooper 1971
  7. I will admit that is really cool but, he made a jump with his father, so who is he going to sue if something did in fact wrong? (not to mention it was in Aus.) To piggyback off that story, I know Start was taking 'minors' on Tandems as well. They had it in big bold letters on the front page of their site "You must be 16 years of age to perform a tandem skydive at Start" and UPT had to stop them from doing it. It was very important that UPT stepped up and did that. Why? Because UPT would have been the ones with the deeper pockets and the family would more than likley go after them if anything would have happend. Just an example of why the age should be 18 across the board. In this case however, who will be at fault? (because some will ALWAYS be at fault). I feel the main concern here is how this is going to impact the skydiving world? "TREE!" - D.B. Cooper 1971
  8. Hi DSE No one under 18 correct. And it is a huge liability if you go under the legal age. I posted this in the Incident forum. Please lock this one down/delete it if you would so all will go there. Thanks "TREE!" - D.B. Cooper 1971
  9. One of my buddys said that this should be posted this over in the Incidents Forum. I have it in there now so more can chime in on this issue. If one of the moderators reads this thread, please remove it from the S&T forum so the only one is in the Incicent Forum. Thx. "TREE!" - D.B. Cooper 1971
  10. http://www.wdtn.com/dpp/news/skydiver's-crash-landing-in-middletown Very sad situation and I hope the girl makes a full recovery. My thoughts and prayers go out to her and her family. I have voiced my opinion on the owner of this DZ as some of you know. However, as a skydiver none of us want to see this happen no matter how you feel about other DZ's. So, what happens now to Start and the skydiving industry? I know 17 it is 'allowed' by the USPA with parental consent, but should it be done....NO! 18 years old is an adult. Anything under 18 is just a child that is having their rights signed away. This has been going on since the USPA stepped aside and washed their hands of it. The USPA need to put their food down and say no one over 18 period!!!! Any thoughts? "TREE!" - D.B. Cooper 1971
  11. Taken from the form that tetra316 posted: "Beginning at least as early as January 2004, Hart willfully failed to withhold and pay over payroll tax payments from SMS employees’ paychecks, failed to file Form’s 941 with the IRS, and no payments of payroll taxes were made to the IRS. From 2004 through 2006 Hart failed to withhold and pay over to the IRS approximately $678,644.79 in Medicare and Social Security taxes from his employees’ paychecks." I read it as those employees that he duped will not see those monies in the later years of their lives when they need it the most becuase he did not pay into SS or MC. Any money that the IRS is getting back will go to the Govt. not the employees he hosed. I sure hope I'm wrong on my interpretation, but I don't believe I am on this point. "TREE!" - D.B. Cooper 1971
  12. QuoteIt could just as well said, "From 2004 through 2006, Hart used SMS corporate funds for expenditures including, but not limited to, charitible contributions, employee health care, and providing assistance to terminally ill children." Both statements are equally true.Quote Very good point. However that makes it even more sad to me. If what you say is true, he stole this money (or however everyone decided he got it
  13. D.B Cooper....I live in Washington somewhere...no "home" DZ...and you're right. "TREE!" - D.B. Cooper 1971