davelepka

I know. Harness grips are part of many different types of skydiving, just not my type of skydiving. I'm not suggesting that everyone should do it my way, just that it is possible to do it my way, and still skydive.

I don't fly in the base on hybrids. I also don't do MR Bill jumps. Or horny gorillas. Or anything where someone wants to grab my harness. I manage to get by just fine being a skydiver and not doing those things, and so could others.

Wait for it. Wait for it. 'Someone' is going to chime in disagree that the camera was a factor. While it's true that this might have happened without the camera, the fact is that the camera was present and I can GUARANTEE you that the jumper probably touched the camera at least three times between gearing up and exiting. Checking that it was there, secure, battery charged, on and recording took time and attention. Meanwhile, the chest strap received little to no attention. Fortunately for the jumper, the oversight turned out to be a non-issue in this case. If it had been something like a main or reserve pin that didn't get checked, the outcome of an incident could have been much worse.

See my other post, but no. Keep your pull procedure the same, and then (quickly) grab your elbows after you toss the PC. Your best chance for a 'good' opening, one where the chest strap does nothing, is to use your 'normal' pull procedure. You already have one new thing going on, that being the need to grab your elbows, don't introduce another 'new' thing like trying to pull from a different position. If you sit up too much, or fall off to one side, you are only adding to your problems.

Very productive thought Kelly. The procedure is to pull and then cross your arms in front of your chest. Some people suggest grabbing your harness on either side, but that seem like a tough grab to make mid-deployment. An easier grab would be grab each arm just above the elbow, as you have a much easier time of both hands finding both of your arms (you know where all of those parts are) as opposed to both hands trying to grab two things that are not attached to your body. The idea is that having your arms in front of your body will 'lock' the MLW in place, much like a chest strap. However, do not alter your pull procedure. A chest strap comes into play on a hard or head low opening, otherwise it's really just a 'back up' device to the natural geometry of the harness. This is one reason why the hardware is so flimsy, they just don't take much of a load. Either way, trying to grab your harness with your left hand or crossing your left hand before the deployment will remove the lift created by having that hand up over your head, and guarantee you a head low opening. So do your 'normal' pull procedure, and once the PC is tossed, keep your right arm moving up toward your chest, pull your left arm in to meet it, and grab your elbows. In the event of a malfunction, it's much the same idea. Luckily, your handles are close to your chest and your arms will be close to being able to once again grab your elbows. Your chances for having an opening at something less than 'flat and stable' goes up in the case of a cutaway and reserve pull, so just be ready. Using two hands on each handle will help, as your MLW will be 'locked in place' just by your arm position. So if your RSL gets your reserve out before you, your hands (and arms) will be close together as they will both be moving from the cutaway over to the reserve. Beyond that, see my other post above about preventing these types of problems. I will add one thing I forgot, never ever never let anyone grab your harness for any reason. Jumpsuits have grippers for a reason, use them. Your harness was not made to be gripped and tugged on, and this is the quickest way towards getting a handle pulled, or a chest/leg strap loosened to the stop during a skydive. Just say no.

Pretty complete story in the video. More or less, nobody on the load took one look at that chest strap at any point (including the jumper). Have to love the 'target fixation', right down to trying to thread it under canopy and again on the ground after landing. Priorities people. Keep your eye on the prize at all times during a freefall, with the prize being an open canopy at a safe altitude. The way you do this and still be able to focus on your chosen freefall activity is preparation. Maintain your gear, properly pack your gear, and check your gear. Then check your gear. Then check it one more time. If you have spare time in the plane, check it some more. You can't check it too much. I'm crazy about gear checks, and making sure everything I'm wearing is ready to go, from shoes to helmet and everything in between. The reason is that I want to be able to forget about it all 100% during my freefall and focus on whatever I'm doing on that jump. I want to know that I can get to pull time and have my stuff squared away and ready for deployment. The end of the freefall is no time to find a problem with your gear, it's time to pull.

The last word in that quote is the operative word - one. That's the number of landings you get per jump, and the number of times you gain experience flying a parachute close to the ground. One. First of all, nobody is being punished by anything. Given a reasonable course of downsizing and continuing education, the newer jumper would be gaining an advantage in their learning and skills far and above the current method of 'anything goes'. The community overall would have better skills and education, making for safer canopy pilots. The education would be better as canopy control courses would be more established and the experience of the instructors in teaching those courses would go up. So safer jumpers to be flying with, and better canopy control courses and instruction, yeah, that sounds like a punishment. Again, what you're forgetting (or what you never knew or considered) is that anytime you tie something to jump numbers, the speed at which you progress will 'find it's own level'. If you are a dedicated jumper who can crank out 100 jumps per month, you will haul ass through the regs, and be jumping whatever you want in short order. If you are not doing that sort of volume, do you really think it would be advisable for you to rush through a canopy progression? The nice part about using jump numbers is that each jumper will move along at the pace that fits the volume of jumps they're making. First off, 'we' don't have shit. 'You' are a tourist (at best) and until you can start being honest about who you are and what your experience level is, don't expect much traction from your ideas. The concept of 'consider the source' comes into play heavily in skydiving, and when you don't know who you source is, the advice becomes worthless. Along those same lines, nobody gives two shits about what you think. You've proven yourself to be childish, selfish, contrarian, and deceptive. That's not the way to earn credibility anywhere, especially when it comes to ideas or decisions that involve the risk of bodily injury or death. This is one of those cases that I'm glad most people don't make it more than 5 years before they quit jumping. By my math, we have about 4 1/2 more of your crap before you'll move on to some other distraction from your video games (or you'll just retreat into your video games on a full time basis). Maybe we'll get really lucky, and you'll be on the fast track like you think you are, and you'll quit even sooner than the average.

No, because you are assuming that all incidents, from all causes, and of all magnitudes are reported with the same percentage of frequency, and that may not be true. If half of all camera incidents are reported, and 75% of all canopy incidents are reported, the gathered data would suggest an artificially high ratio of canopy incidents to camera incidents. The problem with not all incidents being reported is that there is no consistency in the numbers we have. That inconsistency applies to individual types of incidents, as well as overall incidents, so you can't look at the numbers and make any real conclusions from them. Beyond that, the point is that if there are ANY reported incidents, the area of concern is a real risk. If I told you that jumping near a jet was dangerous because you could get sucked into the engine, that might not be a real concern as it's never happened (on a skydive), but if I told you that cameras of all sizes have been distracting jumpers and leading to bad situations, that is a real thing with real data to back that up. With that in mind, and your willingness to accept that not all incidents are reported, you can see that the dangers and distraction of flying a camera are real. We have reports of such incidents to back this up, and if you add in the unreported incidents that must be out there, you have a fair number of examples of this being a 'real' thing. You may not be aware of this, but you can do everything right in skydiving and still be killed. For this reason, you need to take great care to control the things you can control, such as decisions about equipment selection, the type of jumps you choose to make, and the weather in which you make those jumps. The idea is that when the out-of-your-control shit hits the fan, all of the in-your-control shit is taken care of, and you only have one problem on your plate (the one that was out of your control). The majority of skydiving incidents are the result of a chain of events. Several bad choices or pieces of bad luck staking up against the jumper such that they cannot overcome them all. When you willfully add un-necessary or inappropriate risks or challenges to your skydive, you're laying down the first few links in the accident chain before you even leave the plane, and this is not the way to progress in skydiving. Want to know how to survive and prosper in this sport? Ask someone who has, and then listen.

If your lines are out of trim, the new slider is a maybe/maybe not solution, and possibly a maybe-not-for-long solution. Consider buying another canopy. The slider will run you upwards of $100, and a new line set installed will run you into the $300/$350 range depending on which way you go. You'll be into it for more than it's worth, and out of pocket upwards of $400. Sell it off cheap, like $200 or $300. Disclose that it does sometimes open hard like a Sabre does, and if someone needs a dirt cheap canopy, they can buy it and you're 'clean' as you told them the whole story. Maybe a rigger will grab it as a wingsuit or backup canopy, and they do the all the work to it for no cost. Take that, and the money you would have spent to 'fix' it and buy something newer that doesn't have a reputation as a slammer.

Not all incidents are reported on DZ.com, more so if they are not fatal or do not include severe injury. Virtually no close-calls are reported on DZ.com. If you want to hang your hat on the incidents forum as a 'complete' listing of what can go wrong, that's another mistake you are making, and another indicator of your inexperience. There's a sticky in the video forum of incidents that have been directly tied to camera use, more specifically the 'safer' small format cameras. Again, the list is limited to what people are willing to report and have posted for all the world to see, you can bet that there are a good deal more that will never see the light of day on the internet or in print. There was a quote at the end of tribute video for a jumper who went in that I think applies here. The fact that the guy went is in not relevant, but the quote was something like, 'The horizon is nothing more that the limit of our sight'. The point being that just because you can't see it in front of your face, doesn't mean that it's not real and something to consider.

And that is why you're a 'kid' and referred to as such. If you could pull your head out of your ass, you would realize that however the advice is delivered, a guy with 20,000 jumps could tell you something that could potentially save your life. Fuck you if it hurts your feelings, sack up and see the value of the advice. Do you think an investor would flip-off Warren Buffet if he was handing out free financial advice but wasn't being nice enough about it? The biggest mistake you're making is that anyone gives two shits about you. More importantly, that gravity, the ground, and reality in general don't give two shits about you. Your feeling don't come into play when you make mistake in the this sport. The moment you leave the plane, you have entered into a 'contract' with gravity to obey it's laws all the way to the ground, and gravity will enforce that contract relentlessly. You do not have the luxury of time, feeling, desires or anything of that sort once you leave the plane, the rules governing your actions and the outcome are carved in stone and there is no room for negotiation. You are not going to win any battles here. Despite what you think about my opinion, or that of others, there is a factual record of people with your attitude flaunting on this site, and then ending up in the hospital, a wheelchair, or a coffin. There is a written record of people posting in a very similar style and sprit as you, people like me telling them they are wrong, and them ending up in bad shape. There is a certain amount of credibility that comes with high jump numbers and years in the sport. It is proof positive that you have the ability to survive in this environment, and being able to do that is not a given. A good many people are injured out of the sport, or scared out by a close call. Don't make the mistake of assuming that you are special, and somehow guaranteed survival, success, or anything in this sport. You are not, on all counts.

No offence, but you're getting 'mixed up'. The reference to looking up are about right after you pitch your PC and the idea is to get your body pitched up head-high so your when your canopy sits you up, you're already half way there and will have less force pulling you upright. This is why opening head low is generally so bad. to go from head low to sitting under canopy is greater than 90 degrees of 'sitting up' that your canopy has to pull you through. So if you're a little head high, it's less than 90 degrees. Disclaimer - you are taking a risk in trying to sit up when you toss your PC. If you go too high you could flip over. If you have a PC in tow or hesitation, you could make more problems than you solve. The best bet is proper gear maintenance and packing, and remaining flat and stable during your PC toss, and let the canopy sit you up. In terms of where to look during the opening, the talk about looking for traffic is during the snivel, after you have already been 'sat upright' by your canopy. At that time, when your canopy is sniveling and the slider coming down, the canopy is beginning to 'fly' and could be steered to some extent and at that time it's best to be looking for traffic. Once the canopy sits you up, looking straight out and level is probably best. If there is any 'snap' to the inflation, your head will be centered over your spine and the weight will push straight down. If you are looking up at your canopy or have your head on your chest, the weight will be forced down and possibly extending your neck either forward or back. Even with your chin on your chest, it can slide further down and allow elongation injury, so avoid that one for sure.

First off, you don't need to downsize. You may want to, but you don't need to. Second, in terms of gear and weight loss, lose the weight first, then worry about the gear. If the weight loss works out, and you find that that you do want to 'adjust' your WL, worry about it at that time. In terms of your reserve, just leave it. If you're a high puller jumping a new rig, how is it that you think you'll end up with a two-out? It's not going to be an AAD fire, and with a new rig, if you take care of it, there shouldn't be any problems with gear failure that would give you a two out. Two-outs are rare, and if it does happen to you, you'll be happy to have more fabric out and according to you, plenty of time to deal with the problem before you land.

For swooping, no. For CReW and other things, I have seen rear riser loops. I think one reason you don't see any real push in that area is that it's not really needed. Most of your weight hangs off your front risers, and even with added airspeed, your rears never get 'too' heavy that you can't pull them down without a loop or a block of some sort. Do people drop rear risers? Sure, sometimes, but if they plan right they're left holding a toggle that works just as good. Do people drop rear risers because they're too hard to hold onto? No, it's because they screw up and don't have a good grip on them. It's just like toggles. Do people drop toggles? Sure, sometimes, but you don't see a push to find a way to lock a toggle onto your hand (from a design perspective). If the jumper uses care in the way they hold the toggle, it's possible to grip it securely without a problem. Same thing goes for rear risers. Design your swoop or routine that such that you have enough time to securely grip your rears in such a way that you can count on that grip to flare your canopy at the bottom of your dive. If on a given jump you find that you cannot get said secure grip, you need to bail to your toggles, and use those to finish your landing. If a guy tries to push through and complete a swoop on rears when he doesn't have a secure grip, that's his mistake, not that of the gear manufacturers.

To you and me, yes. In regards to the legal aspect, we have the legal right as per the FAA to do whatever needed in order to make a 'safe' landing. My comment was in reference to the idea that the jumper was 'trespassing' in the legal sense, and possibly at risk of being arrested as such. I get that jumpers can prevent off-field landing through proper planning and execution, but that's a separate topic from the legal implications of landing on private property.

There are no stats to use for any sort of analysis. The RSL example, nobody knows how many times an RSL has worked without a problem because those instances are never reported. Furthermore, if someone pulls a reserve handle in short order after a cutaway, an RSL failure might occur and nobody would know. All we do know is when an RSL fails and causes harm such that it is apparent after the incident in an investigation. Even then, an RSL can fail and cause harm, but escape an investigation based on other factors of the incident. Same thing for EPs as it applies to totals/PC in tow. The number of times that both handles, or just the reserve, were pulled and things worked out fine are unknown. All we know is the handful of times that one or the other didn't work out, and it was clear in the aftermath that the handle sequence was the problem. This is one of those areas that always sparks a good debate because there is no one 'definitive' answer.

You would think, but there is more than one instance of this very thing happening to jumpers new to cameras. if you watch enough videos, you will see great shots of camera guys on their back filming deployments, and it does look really cool. What the videos don't show is the advanced planning between the camera guy and the deploying jumper and the higher pull altitude that's part of the plan. In any case, the resulting videos make it look like it's something to do, and to a new camera flyer who wants to be 'cool', it's a shot they've seen before and want to get themselves. This is the 'distraction' of the camera, where wanting to get the shot manages to step ahead of all else in the jumpers mind. It happens, and it's been happening for years. There was a time when the cost and size (weight) of cameras helped to discourage jumpers from flying cameras at all, but with those days behind us, we'll see more and more of this sort of thing (see the sticky in the video forum) as buying a wearing the camera has become so much easier. Of course flying the camera remains the same challenge as before.

Not to offend your tacking abilities, but that wasn't part of the problem. At best you tracked a 100 ft or so, and that distance does not make the difference between landing off or on. An opening that is 1/2 second longer, or a change in wind speed by 1mph can easily erase a couple hundred feet of extra altitude or distance you might gain by tracking one direction or the other. Two things to keep in mind when landing off, the one is the USPA third party insurance (as mentioned). It's there to protect non-skydivers from skydivers doing damage to their property. If a non-skydiver is claiming that you damaged their property, encourage them to document the damage and contact the UPSA to file a claim. Offer them your name and USPA number for their documentation. Next, you were not trespassing. You did not willfully venture onto his land, you ended up there as the result of a airborne 'emergency', and you have the protection of the FAA on your side. You are not at risk for any sort of criminal prosecution. I'm not suggesting that you be an ass and throw this shit in his face, but the fact of the matter is that just being annoyed is not an actionable situation. You have insurance to cover property damage and federal laws to protect your actions. By all means try to be as polite as possible, but if he tries to take it any further than just copping an attitude, he is in the wrong and has no legal ground to stand on. Truth be told, he may end up breaking laws if he tries to take it any further. Again, not that I'm suggesting you do anything but be nice and try to remain 'neighborly', but it's good to know where you really stand. Oh, in case nobody mentioned it, if you do land in a planted field, walk in between the rows of crops and do your best to not to damage one single plant. Even if it looks to be bare, there may be seedlings down and you should stay in between the rows and take the shortest route out of the field even if it means you have to walk the long way around the edge to get to the road.

First off, this post is waaaay off topic. The question was what makes a good skydiver, not when should I downsize. I've got news for you, when you're overly defensive about shit like this, and you lie about your jump numbers or time in sport, it's transparent that you're hiding your real information and revealing how you personally feel about your situation. I'm sorry if you feel that way, but what's ironic is that I would answer the OPs actual question by stating that a 'good' skydiver is the exact opposite of how you come across. To be a 'good' skydiver you need to be realistic about your skills and abilities and willing to listen to the advice of others. Someone who embodies those traits will not be a danger to themselves or others, will make a conservative choices that will lengthen their life, and will continue to learn throughout their entire jumping career. Over estimating your skills can (and will) make you a danger to yourself and others, and an unwillingness to listen to advice will curb your learning and further retard your ability to be a safe jumper who can make a real contribution to the DZ/sport.

As mentioned when this same issue was brought up earlier, and the same piece of equipment was cited as an example, those fall protectors are designed to take one fall and 'fail' in order to save the person falling. In daily use, those devices take no load until there is a 'fall', with the fall being the time when the device goes to work. In skydiving, daily use involves repeated opening shocks, and even a 'good' opening will impart more load than a short fall while climbing. The problem is making something that can last for 100's of openings without failing, but still fail when you want it to. That's there the issue of 'calibration' comes in, and how you make something that holds through 100's of openings without failing or weakening, but then still fails only when you want it to. In that sense, it's way different than climbing.

Again, you're talking about two different people. Someone who will not listen when you tell them they are not ready to swoop will also not listen when you tell them they are not ready for another downsize, a more aggressive canopy, or a bigger turn. The last thing I want to do with that sort of person is give them any advice/coaching that will push them further down the swooping road. Aside from the ethical/personal responsibility of enabling someone to potentially hurt/kill themselves, why would I want to take my time and effort to help someone who doesn't respect my opinion or the fact that I'm taking my time to try and help them? If they're unwilling to listen to the first piece of instruction, that being that they are not ready to swoop, what's my motivation to stay 'on board' with them and take up a coach/mentor position?

This idea has been considered before, but the problems outweighed the benefits. If the 'fail safe' let go when it wasn't wanted, you just opened yourself up to the risks of a cutaway when one wasn't needed. If the 'fail safe' let's go under canopy at a low altitude, you just rendered your canopy un-landable below your do-not-cutaway altitude. I think what it comes down to is some very basic preventative measures that most people will be too busy, too lazy, or too cheap to implement. Note: I'm not suggesting that any of these factors played a role in the recent incident in Deland. Hard openings can happen anytime for any reason, these are just some steps you can take to minimize that risk. 1. Packing - this is a no-brainer. Learn to pack. Learn to pack your rig neatly and correctly, even if it means practicing at home and taking your time at the DZ. Bagging the canopy is, for most, the hardest part of packing and it's also the time where the flaking/organizing you did can come undone as you try to shove the canopy in the bag. Keeping the slider up at the stops, the line tension even, and the nose/tail preparations intact are key to getting good openings, and if you lose them bagging the canopy, the whole pack job is a waste of time. The other side to this is properly sizing your container for your main canopy, because if you're trying to squeeze your main into a tiny rig, your chances for success go down. 2. Maintenance - keep your rig in good shape. Worn closing loops and BOC pouches can lead to premature deployments, and if you're not in a good body position, it can lead to a hard opening. Likewise, keep your lines in trim can also go a long way toward keeping your openings good and consistent. This isn't a mystery, you can measure your lines against the factory trim chart, and see how far out they are. Since nobody wants to be without their canopy in the middle of the season, this where sometimes you have to look 'into the future' and bite the bullet for an early reline. If you lines are 'close' to being out of whack in January, but still 'ok', what are they going to look like in 50 or 100 jumps in the middle of the season? At that point, it's either send it in mid-season, or jump the rest of the season with 'questionable' lines. The solution is to send it in for the reline in Jan, and do the preventative maintenance. This is skydiving, it costs money, just get it done. 3. Body position - first off, let's remember our pull priorities in order, 1. PULL, 2. Pull at the correct altitude, 3. Pull while stable. You can see that pulling while stable is last on the list, it does contribute toward getting a good opening. You want to be level on all axis (not head low, or leaning to one side) and going at a 'slower' speed in the flattest position that you can still be comfortable and in control. The trick is that getting to that position at pull time takes planning and sticking to that plan. If you bust your break-off altitude from a jump, and end up low and trying to get away from the group, it becomes tough to meet all of the pull priorities. The way to prevent this is with conservative break off altitudes where you have time to track sufficiently, slow down, and get into an 'optimal' pull position by the time you reach your pull altitude. This is where, again, you have to bite the bullet and sacrifice 500 or 1000ft of freefall and move your break-off up enough to allow time for you to be careful on the bottom end. Those three areas are where you can do your best to prevent hard openings, but sadly it's probably a lost cause. I'm willing to bet that if you went to the average DZ and watched the proceedings, you would see more people than not who either use a packer or rush through a sloppy pack job, put off gear maintenance/relines based on the cost, and plan skydives with lower break-offs adding pressure to the bottom end maybe making them choose between a 'clean' pull or an 'on time' pull. Sad, but true.

So if all of your other alternatives are costly, like flying you and the dog, and shipping your SUV, why not 'buy' yourself a buddy to make the long stretches with you? Get a friend to accompany you, either on the whole trip or just the leg you're concerned about. Pay for their airfare home from Alaska, and it's like a 'free' trip to Alaska for them and now you don't have to drive on your own.

Just bumping this back up to the top for the hell of it. Looks like there might have been another incident or two where busting a hard deck with a low cutaway might have been a factor, so it seemed like a good time for a little bump. Beyond that, there's been a lot of activity in the incidents forum in the last week/couple days. With the big holiday weekend, and good June weather rolling in, jump numbers should be up, and so should everyone's awareness levels in terms of safety, gear checks, and all around being careful. It's easy to get caught up in the fast pace of a busy DZ and a ticking clock when the sun is going down and ready to end the fun, but just remember to slow down, take a deep breath, and think about all the choices you're making before you actually make them. Did you take your time, and pack carefully? Did you check ALL of your gear before gearing up? Did you plan the dive the right way, to include a dirt dive with everyone involved and a clear and direct discussion of break off and pull altitudes? Have you reviewed the load and what other jumpers/groups are doing to ensure correct exit orders and group separation? Have you checked the winds/weather to make sure they're within your abilities and that you have a solid flight plan in mind? Have you mentally and physically reviewed your EPs and hard decks? Have done all of the above twice? Before every jump? Can you think of a good reason not to?

You guys are talking about two different people. I was responding to the idea of a jumper who is going to swoop no matter what anyone says. In that case, I'm not telling him shit because it's an unsafe situation and the jumper has proven himself to be someone that does not listen. You're talking about non-swoop or swoop-prep instruction. If I tell a guy he shouldn't be swooping and he listens, I'd have no problem helping him to sharpen his pattern work and accuracy while he builds the skills and experience needed to start swooping at a later time. Big difference between, 'I'm going to swoop anyway, so you might as well help me' and 'Ok, I guess I'm not ready to swoop, can you help me get ready to swoop'.