narcimund

Yeah, yeah, there are exceptions. Hell, I'm an exception. I'm more rightish than leftish too. But the Christians and Righties have a really bad -- but widely earned -- reputation in this area. Getting tarred and feathered with a wide brush is the cost of joining tribes. First Class Citizen Twice Over

Ah, you sly devil, you! Sorta. I don't declare a deus ex machina because I have no idea how I ended up this way, much as you probably don't know how you ended up being who you are. Some qualities of humans have been shown to be genetic but others are still mysteries. I dunno why I'm left handed. I'm a curious type so I'd be distantly intrigued by a proven explanation but it wouldn't make no never mind one way or the other. "You're left handed because of genetics," "you're left handed because of early experiences," and "you're left handed because of personal choice" are all possible explanations and none would change either my left handedness nor my choice to be at peace with it. Some societies have given left-handers grief and I'm glad this one doesn't any more. Same for gayness, though the transition isn't quite done yet. Getting close! First Class Citizen Twice Over

Thanks, that's sweet. I'm just passing through though. The question in the OP gave me reason to have a good think about my own understanding of "gay pride" but I don't expect to hang around now that it's playing out. First Class Citizen Twice Over

I can't speak about you personally but your tribe most certainly does obsess about us. Grow up gay and you'll run across 1000 coming out stories. The cliche line we all have heard over and over (often from parents no less!) is, "I can't stop thinking about the disgusting things you do in bed!" I do feel sorry for those people -- it sounds disquieting -- but their repetitive thoughts are their problem, not mine. I certainly don't find it difficult to avoid thinking about anyone else's sex activities and especially if they are so dissimilar to mine that they seem disgusting to me. The Christian and modern American political right tribes are suffering badly from their obsession about the sex lives of gay people. There's treatment for that. First Class Citizen Twice Over

The party line I'm supposed to spout is that "we're born that way" but my mind is far too simple to know if that's true. I have no real idea how it came to be that I turned out to be a pansy but I am and that's only my business, not yours. I was very young when I realized I bonded better with the boys through their characteristic ways of thinking, communicating, making decisions, working, playing, self-awareness, self-improvement, and yes, how they look. Later I realized I like how they have sex too. I suppose maybe I could have suppressed all that and partnered with girls instead. But the only reason I could find to do so was to pacify busybodies with weird and ambiguous ontological mythologies. And that was only their business, not mine. But while we're talking about what we can't understand, can you explain why your tribe obsesses so much about what my tribe does in bed? We're doing fine over here. You don't need to be so clingy. First Class Citizen Twice Over

I'm proud to be gay more in the sense of a complete absence of shame than a sense of positive conceit. But I'm positively proud to be successfully gay in a world that I guess would sometimes prefer I failed. Other than some early growing pains it's worked out amazingly well! Some of my easy outcome has been environmental and for that I just count myself lucky. But I'm proud of having made good choices and adaptations and executing them well. I'm proud to be a part of history while gay people are making such headway. I surely won't take a lot of credit as I've lived a quiet life but I've played small parts over the years. I'm proud to be solidly (gay) married for what anyone has to admit is a long time and a worthy run. My husband and I have been loyal to each other, achieved a lot together, and been through many experiences. Best friends in a hundred ways. Yeah, I'm proud. I've made a good life out of a dodgy beginning and that's something to be proud of! I'm not so much proud of the fact that I happen to be romantically and sexual oriented towards males but very proud indeed of what I've made out of that. First Class Citizen Twice Over

As possibly the only gay-married skydiver I suppose I should chime in with a first-hand account. My marriage is mostly in the agreement I have with my husband. We could be married without government or societal recognition just by saying, "We're married, right?" "Right!" That's all it takes. But sometimes government and societal recognition has benefits. Some are economic, some are bureaucratic, some are social, and some are symbolic. Maybe someday we'll value the spousal inheritance tax treatment. Or freedom from being compelled to testify against a spouse in court. Not too many years ago we found that Canadian immigration requires somewhat less paperwork and expense for officially married couples than for common law married couples, and far less than for two single people. I imagine it's similar when immigrating to the US. Yes, some bureaucratic benefits can be simulated in piecemeal fashion. But even those are automatically different by virtue of having to be filed with complex research, lawyering, and expense instead of a charming brief visit from the marriage commissioner who just asked if we love each other forever. Argue all you like but that's just not the same thing in a bunch of ways. I can report from personal experience that even though I've been well treated and respected my entire life, being married confers a palpable social acceptance that "boyfriend" or "dating" does not. And if the symbolism means the world to us, then that's what's important. You all can argue over the how much these benefits matter or even if they exist all you like, but it's our business which ones we care about and how much. In the end being government married is far from the most important thing in the world to me but it's one inequity that's really inexpensive for the world to rectify. I'm glad it's moving forward. I'm especially glad that young gay people for the most part have a more welcoming world to grow up in. That matters a whole lot and legal gay marriage contributes to that result. First Class Citizen Twice Over

Well, it's been about 5 years since Billvon gave me a private talking to for participating in Speaker's Corner at a level below my own standards. That's when I realized I wasn't doing myself any favours spending time explaining my views to people who aren't listening. Since then I've gone on to do many other amazing things (none of which involve asymmetrically intelligent discussions on the Internet.) For the record I didn't get banned. I just walked away. It -can- be done. But even though I don't post any more I do enjoy scanning these repetitive conversations. It's my television. I'm flabbergasted that mostly the same cast is playing the same roles. I expected more turnover. Anyway, I always knew I'd post here once more when I finally completed an old project that I used to sometimes discuss here. Back when I cared about exhibiting my thoughts to strangers I told myself it would be cathartic to someday change my dropzone signature line to commemorate the end of that project. Now I'm fulfilling that promise to myself. So until yesterday my husband and I were second class citizens in the USA, then first class landed immigrants in Canada. And now we've finished up the process. It's quite satisfying. Let the familiar old democrat/republican gang war begin. First Class Citizen Twice Over

Thank you, Bill. I'm hardly the one to go calling for more restrictive use of authority, but this open bigotry was really galling. Of course now there will just be more hidden bigotry. I guess that's an improvement of sorts... First Class Citizen Twice Over

Such quaint old ideas... First Class Citizen Twice Over

Just to pass on a helpful observation: your posts do not leave the impression that you have an open mind. They hint strongly at a mind firmly made up. If your self-assessment is that your mind is open, you might want to adjust how you present that. First Class Citizen Twice Over

Do you perhaps mean "you are responsible to others only for what you do, not what you think"? First Class Citizen Twice Over

That would be an overreaching statement, but as they say, even a stopped clock is right twice a day. First Class Citizen Twice Over

Truth is less important to some than it is to others. Besides, you save so much effort if you don't bother! First Class Citizen Twice Over

Some things just aren't as complicated as some people would like to believe. And other things aren't as simple as some would like to believe. First Class Citizen Twice Over

Gosh. Well that settles that. After all that fuss with quantum physics, Royd settles the matter for us. Einstein will be very happy to hear this. First Class Citizen Twice Over

If I've ever seen a misuse of "of course", this is it. First Class Citizen Twice Over

Sure, you have to draw a line somewhere, but I suspect PP draws it a lot further south than you portray. But her example is still north of where the anti-abortion folk draw it. First Class Citizen Twice Over

Why do you want your writing to communicate the pauses, stumbles, stutters of speech? Isn't eliminating those one of the wonderful strengths of writing? First Class Citizen Twice Over

So you admit you're just making a syntactical argument! That's worse than a semantic one. First Class Citizen Twice Over

Offense of a negative is possible. Someone could be offended by the absence of the thing they want to see. First Class Citizen Twice Over

Yes, some people do think more poorly than me. If you think that's not true then you must have been fed a bunch of liberal "Everyone's equally intelligent" crap in school or something. People AREN'T all equally intelligent and one can make an interesting conclusion about anyone who thinks otherwise. First Class Citizen Twice Over

The problem with athiests is they don't listen when the christians tell THEM what to do in the bedroom, what books to read, etc. Christians hate that. First Class Citizen Twice Over

One more time my point is proven! Well, somebody's point is proven. First Class Citizen Twice Over

You dance most prettily. First Class Citizen Twice Over