wolfriverjoe

So nobody studied masks before the pandemic? Seriously? And as far as 'buried on page 200', this was THIRD on a google search: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8499874/ Admittedly not 'pre-pandemic', but one of the more interesting parts of the abstract is:

That's very true. For much of the pandemic, the US had higher infection rates and death rates than most of the rest of the world

To be fair, mask mandates were pretty ineffective. There was very little difference between infection rates with or without mandates. The problem was lack of enforcement. Or lack of a mandate in the first place. The 'adult toddlers' threw shit fits when told to do something that would help other people. Then all the 'muh freedumbs' idiots combined forces with the MAGA morons and got the courts (the ones the Rs spent the previous 4 year packing with alt-right types) to overturn those mandates that were put in place. The people who understood why masks were important kept wearing them. The fools who never wore them in the first place kept not wearing them. So infection rates never changed much.

Great, you have an impressive resume. (note: I'm not being sarcastic) However, I have yet to see you post ANYTHING that supports your 'masks don't work' assertion. Remember a couple posts back, you asked if I would be able to decide if someone was an 'expert' in their field? One thing I didn't mention was 'supporting data'. A true expert in a particular field can and will provide data supporting their position. This is pretty generic, but it has a fair amount of authority behind it: https://www.cdc.gov/respiratory-viruses/prevention/masks.html

Well, yeah. That too. I've seen suggestions that Greene, Johnson and a few others should be prosecuted under the Logan Act.

So 70k people signed something (that, as pointed out, has nothing to do with masks). How many DIDN'T sign it. Somewhat like the "1000 engineers and architects" that signed the thing about the way the WTC towers collapsed being 'wrong', knowing how large the population is counts. And yes, I may not know about the subject, but I know how to apply critical thinking. I can usually do a decent job of sorting out 'real experts' from the frauds. Sources also help. I'm far more likely to believe an 'expert' on NPR/PBS or BBC vs one on Fox. Viruses travel within droplets, which are blasted out of the mouth. Masks reduce droplet expulsion. One of the earliest times I was seriously scared of Covid was when it was discovered there was pre-symptomatic transmission. That people could be contagious before they showed symptoms. There was a story that came out of the Pacific Northwest (Washington? Oregon?) where a church choir had a practice. 2 people were infected and contagious, but not yet symptomatic. 3/4 of the people present contracted Covid. A few died. Along a couple reports of that story was a silhouette picture of a singer. Strongly backlit, you could see the quantity of droplets being expelled. Masks help control that spread. Not 100%, not perfectly. Masking, along with distancing and handwashing, the spread was reduced. One of the best indicators of the effectiveness was the spread of influenza. With the mitigation practices in widespread practice, spread of the flu was sharply reduced. One strain of the flu is now believed to be extinct. Of course, the idiots refused to comply. I've heard the term "Defiant Oppositional Disorder", which is a fancy word for 'acting like a toddler who only says "NO!!!!"'. This was seen a few times when the idiots were refusing to believe that Covid was serious, that masks were effective and (of course) believing that Covid was a Chinese bio-weapon and that the vaccines were either deadly or contained 'tracking chips. My favorite was a schematic of these 'tracking chips' that went around. It was an effect pedal for an electric guitar. https://www.guitarworld.com/news/the-creator-of-the-covid-vaccineboss-metal-zone-pedal-hoax-reveals-all-there-aint-a-lot-of-sane-people-in-this-world Turns out it was a hoax, from a guy who wanted to make the conspiracy idiots look like... Idiots.

Oh, no. They die. Then they get beaten some more. And more. And more. Brent never admits being wrong. Ever. Jakee never lets go. Ever. I'm usually good for a couple smartass comments. And eventually you have a 'horse smoothie'.

Why? They're pretty limited as far as what they can do. They are often necessary for keeping the country operating. You know, like now when the "Freedumb CooCoos" are actively blocking any legislation that benefits Biden in any way. Also, it's kind of funny how loudly the conservatives scream about them when a D is in office, yet how silent they are about them while an R holds the position.

Yup. Like so many other powerful things. Used for my benefit, it's awesome. Used against me, awesomely frightening.

Well, they got it pretty damned close. US intel also got it right when they predicted Putin would invade Ukraine. Few other folks agreed, but it turned out the US was right. The interesting thing is how public this (and the Ukraine invasion warnings) have been. It would have been pretty simple, and pretty standard procedure, for the US to notify Israel quietly. Allow Israel to get advance warning, to be ready and waiting, able to fend off the attack (which they did pretty well). Instead, the US chose to 'go public' with the warning. Telling the whole world that we had advance knowledge of what the Iranians (and the Russians back in 2022) were going to do. Almost as if there's a message in that. "Dear Bad Guys, We know what you are going to do. We know how you are going to do it. We know when you are going to do it. Love, USA."

Right. That's why doctors wear them. And dentists. And tattoo artists. And cancer patients. Your 'training and experience' is... Bullshit. What's next? CO2 poisoning from wearing them?

Is Ron Popeil their patron saint? While he didn't make 'durable goods' type appliances, his stuff was pretty miraculous* *Miraculous in both the claims of what it could do and the fact that it would be a miracle if any of those claims actually came to pass.

Right. But it's not going to happen instantly. And even if it did, it won't reverse climate change instantly. So the same dumbasses that like to pretend that because increasing CO2 hasn't increased the temperature instantly, AGW isn't real, will also pretend that mitigating CO2 doesn't do anything.

There's also a LOT of issues with her accusations. Her story changed a whole bunch, a bunch of times. She couldn't pin down a time & date (in part because that would allow Biden to show where he was on that time & date).

What he fails to acknowledge (or realize) is that the decline in the economy was largely Trump's fault. Directly or indirectly, much of what the economy went through can be attributed to Trump. Before anyone says "But Trump wasn't in office for much of the time that the economy tanked", anyone with a bit of understanding knows that the economy responds to any issues very slowly. So shit that Trump did (or didn't do) was affecting the economy for quite a while after he left office.

Number 3 is the big one. I've seen this story popping up more and more. One aspect is that with Musk becoming such a jerk, fewer and fewer people want to be seen driving a car associated with him (your last sentence is becoming more and more common). The other is that investors are hesitant to put money into a company so closely associated with the guy who over paid for Twitter, and then proceeded to utterly destroy it. Is he going to throw another temper tantrum and destroy Tesla? Is he going to fire all the Tesla engineers the way he did at Twitter? That sort of erratic behavior makes serious investors (like fund managers at major investment houses) very uncomfortable.

You make the claim, you provide the proof. The false equivalence that Biden and Trump are in ANY WAY similar is bullshit. Complete and total bullshit. I will agree that it's more 'voting against' than 'voting for'. But I haven't actually voted for a major candidate in a very long time. I'm not a huge fan of Biden, although I'm a lot closer to being one than I was three or four years ago. He's shown himself to be a very competent leader, a good political operative, and seems to be a fairly decent human being. As a comparison, how many of Trump's former cabinet members have endorsed him? How many have said (publicly) that Trump is dangerous for the country. How many has Trump threatened to kill, or have arrested if he is elected? How about how many of Trump's 'team' are in legal trouble? How many of his lawyers have been disbarred or faced discipline for their actions? How many of his associates were sent to prison (or should have been, if not for Trump pardoning them)? How many of Biden's cabinet have faced ANY legal issues? How many have resigned in disgrace or disgust? This isn't "apples to oranges". This is "apples to bunny rabbits". This sort of argument is one reason why I consider Trump supporters to be idiots.

Please give specific, provable examples of Biden doing those things. The list of times Trump has done them is pretty long.

True. Many are stolen. Many are straw purchases. I'd love to see the authorities crack down hard on straw purchases. But, of course, they don't. The guy who bought Kyle Rittenhouse the rifle he used to murder people in Kenosha was facing significant fines and prison time. He got a 'slap on the wrist', basically telling the White Supremacist crowd that they could buy guns for minors with impunity.

Trump supporters are idiots? They care more about their 'feels' than reality?

Not really, Professor. A gun dealer in Indiana is NOT allowed to sell to a resident from another state. That doesn't mean an Illinois resident couldn't find an Indiana resident to do a 'straw purchase' for him, but it's not legal.

They've also done a hell of a job on Russian oil refineries. Depending on what stats you trust, upwards of 15% of Russia's refining capability has been damaged. And they really don't have the ability to repair much of it. There are reports that Russia is importing gasoline from Belarus. There are other reports that the US has asked Ukraine to stop the attacks on Russian oil industry. Of course, Ukraine has responded (more or less) 'if you won't give us what we need, why should we do as you ask?'

But it's GREAT word to use when trying to mock or belittle a concept. Especially when trying to convince the foolish or gullible.

Please show me any reputable source that claims they will. Although, I gotta tell you, right now the wind turbines in the upper midwest are just cranking out power.

Trump needs to be held accountable for his crimes. Allowing him to be free from any consequences for his behavior is far more dangerous. What, exactly, is the 'threat to democracy' that is present by how he's being opposed? Presidential immunity? Please. As was noted in the SC arguments, if that was a thing, Biden could have Trump (or anyone) murdered without consequences. The idea that "all men are equal under the law" would be shit on. 14th Amendment issues? Again, please. There have been a number of Constitutional scholars who have stated pretty clearly that Trump should be barred from office for the Jan 6 insurrection attempt. Scholars from all political sides. The ones who are the REAL threat to democracy are the Rs who are trying incredibly hard, with zero success to impeach Biden. Every charge they've tried has fallen to pieces when closely examined. Just about everything has been exposed as a Russian lie. Seen elsewhere: Either Biden is so good at being a criminal that the Rs can't prove their charges, or the Rs are so incompetent that they can't provide any evidence of 'all this illegal activity'... Or it's all bullshit.