dudeman17

(Sorry, I didn't respond to your other question because nwt's answer was correct.) I'd like to see that, too. If both ends were open, that could be hugely problematic. If the pilot chute got out the wrong end, it would create a pilot chute in tow. If there was enough force to pull the pin, that could create a horrible mess. If the ends had velcro closures, that could impede normal deployment, and the hook side would probably put wear on the bridle. Perhaps they could just tack the one end closed, and pick it to change...

If they jumped into one of the many concerts they threw at Anaheim Stadium in those days, then I saw it.

That's not accurate. What that handle does is open the top of the BOC. The bottom seam is still attached to the container. When the reserve side AFF-I pulls that handle, it exposes the pilot chute. The wind usually deploys it, but if it hesitates in the burble the instructor can grab it and throw it. It would not be suitable for a self-deployed left handed pull.

Sometime in the mid-70's I had occasion to help the police with a composite sketch and that is exactly the type of system they used.

I hope they got Beeman's in the great beyond...

I'm familiar with this incident, but I don't think that was what they were talking about. It sounded like they were talking about a student they had that was trying to follow standard student EP's. Obviously I agree with that. I'm surprised that Dan BC signed off on it. And an AAD. But the idea is that one should never be reliant on them. Actually the RSL WILL deploy the reserve before you pull the reserve handle. If it doesn't, you haven't sequenced it properly. But again, DON'T rely on the RSL, DO pull the reserve handle. I agree that we're not going to go back to several months or weeks of FJC before the first jump. But I don't necessarily agree that we're fighting life-long instincts. For most students, everything in parachuting is brand new stuff and they regard it as such. I think that training should stress not just WHAT they need to do, but WHY they're doing it that way. Then, when stuff happens, they're less reliant on remembering 'what did the instructor say?', and more that it will make sense to them what they should do. Also, especially with EP's, I think they should be trained to VERBALIZE the sequence as they do it. Then when they have a malfunction, they will find themselves TELLING themselves exactly what to do. And, of course, they should continue to train EP's for all the months and years that they continue to jump.

I had a little time the other day so I called and had a chat with one of the managers at Perris' school. To my surprise, it turns out that indeed they have changed their EP's to what David describes. It does vary from USPA. The rationale was that some time ago they had an incident where someone had a malfunction. After grabbing red, they looked for silver but could not see it. The person I was talking to wasn't sure if it was due to a baggy jumpsuit or perhaps a well-endowed female. The person apparently spent some time looking for the reserve handle before pulling the cutaway, and ended up cutting away lower than desired. The school decided to change the EP's to ensure a more timely cutaway. I suppose I can follow the reasoning, but I disagree with the decision. I can not see changing well established, logical, tried and true procedures for everybody due to an outlier event. Cutting away and going back into freefall is certainly not going to make it easier for that person to find the handle, and will make it harder for the normal student. This places a higher reliance on the RSL, which I think is a bad idea. I think the answer is more training. It should be stressed that initiating EP's in a timely fashion is crucial. For the person who might have trouble seeing the handle, whether it be a top-heavy female, or perhaps a larger, barrel-chested male, or a heavier person who wears a baggy suit to help with fall rate, I think that scenario should be predictably apparent. I think training should include that if one can't see the handle, they can still be familiar with where it will be and focus on that area at the appropriate time during EP's. For the baggy suit, part of the pre-jump routine can be to grab the suit by the armpits or inseam of the sleeves and pull the bagginess out from between the lift webs. If the bagginess were to return and indeed be covering the handle during EP's... Well, I'll borrow from Binary's knife-and-fork analogy: If you were sitting down for a meal, and your napkin was covering your fork, would you panic and think 'I can't find my fork, I'm going to starve to death!'? No, you'd simply move/reach under the napkin and grab the fork. So should be your reaction to suit material covering a handle. Skydiving requires the ability for that level of focus, even in the face of a high-speed spinning malfunction. Binary's idea of training for what you're likely to do rather than what you need to do is a horrible idea. You should train for what you need to do, and train until it IS what you WILL do. My advice for David or anyone else would be - While you're under the purview of a school, do what your live, in-person instructors train you to do. When you're licensed and on your own, think things through. Talk to several instructors and experienced people you trust, and decide what makes best sense, and adjust/re-train as appropriate. Safety's a skill. Survival's an art. (JS)

Sure, Wendy, but you know how conversations evolve. An error this basic needs to be addressed, and it started with David's own error in posts 21 and 23. I am an AFF-I who has taught at Perris, and the last thing I said was for him to confirm this with his instructors there. Just lookin' out for the kids, you do that a lot yourself...

You both still have it wrong. AFF EP's are definitely both hands on each handle - both hands pulling the cutaway handle, then both hands pulling the reserve handle. It's extremely methodical to absolutely ensure that the cutaway happens first, then the reserve pull. The part you're getting wrong is that after both hands are on the cutaway handle, but before it is pulled, you look at the reserve handle so that you know where you're going next. That is standard USPA AFF. (I've been teaching it since 1990.) David, you need to correct this in your mind. Talk to your instructor again, they will confirm this. If the instructor you talk to does not agree, then you need to talk to the school manager or Dan BC so that they can be corrected. Here, from Perris, start at about 4:45 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbA_LwmAUd4

David and Binary have it wrong. nwt and CoolBeans have it right. AFF EPs are: The essential difference being to look at silver before peel-pull red. The reason is that when you cut away you go back into freefall, which (especially for a student) can be discombobulating, which is not the time you want to be searching for your life-saving next handle. There have been people found next to their craters with their thumb in the large (3)ring. (No, you don't rely on your RSL.)

(I might be having a senior moment but) who's EHS?

That student in yellow FLAILS, ha! Yeah, yeah, I know... Haven't heard from the Kid in a while.

As a fiction writer you're entitled to take some license. But it's appreciable that you want to be as accurate as possible. A sport or student rig left in the plane is highly unlikely. Much more plausible the bailout rig. In some smaller jump planes I've seen the pilot seat's backpad removed and the rig used as the backpad to be less cumbersome. She could already be leaning on it (if she's the pilot), and all she'd have to do is put her arms through the harness and attach the chest and leg straps. Also, the basic round canopy of the bailout rig would contribute to the tree landing. Yeah, it would be difficult to unbuckle the leg straps while hanging in it, but it's not impossible, so no reason to not have her do it. Climbing down the tree would be awkward. It sounds like you want her to 'romantically' land in his arms. Okay, so she's lower than fifteen feet. No problem.

The Golden Gate bridge is about 245' from the roadway and a number of people have survived suicide attempts there.

Not true 'enough'. TRUE. It's the whole point. Well, in one direction you were given the contact because you said you'd relay the information. So where's the other direction? Are you a man of your word or not? -------------- A bit of detail for you. The harness and container do not separate. They are sewn together as a unit. Plus, he needs the harness to put it over his shoulders like a backpack. If he wanted to make it look a bit less like a parachute, I suppose he could cut the leg straps off with his knife.

Robert, you gotta let all that shit go. It's history, and it ain't gonna change. Carrying it around and constantly regurgitating it will put you in an early grave. This issue really has nothing to do with Shutter. He was just commenting on it. You like media references. Here's one... the soundtrack to the answer... It's really simple... 1. You told dw, this forum, and me that you would report the results of your interview to this forum. 2. Based at least in part on that commitment, dw gave you the contact. 3. You refuse to share the results.

Yes I know that that post was directed primarily at Shutter. But you wrote it sort of generally, so I thought I'd answer it. Because what you were reacting to was part of a conversation that Shutter and I were having regarding that in fact you did NOT answer me. And, as is your wont, you spent several paragraphs NOT answering me. You are deluded, Robert. To the point of concern for your mental acuity. You get a narrative in your mind, and you seem to think that if you detail it out enough and spew it onto some website, that it will resemble some sort of reality.

That is exactly what you did. I did. Repeatedly. Yeah. I do.

I was going to say the exact same thing.

Robert, I gotta say that your brain is denser than granite. You use the slightest excuse to redundantly repeat the same crap over and over again that has nothing to do with the question you've been asked. You are an absolutely unreliable source of information. And I'm guessing that you type faster than an auctioneer talks.

So... About that Sky Sports guy...

Hmmm, okay. Just what was said over there, especially a few days ago in the 'Tina Bar Money Find' thread, made it sound like no one was sure what was meant by 'oscillations'.

I'm curious if (and when) you've personally resumed doing tandems?

I dunno... Hydraulics are closed pressure systems run by pumps. To allow it to 'gravity drop' would take forever, and would not allow the door to 'free float'. The emergency handle would disconnect the door from the hydraulic system, allowing it to be opened by hand, and would also allow the free float. (There would have to be emergency handles both inside and outside for escape and rescue, hence the inner or outer placards.) Gonna have to find that video. Now you're the spammer, haha.