dudeman17

Ramble, Forrest, ramble!

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On 3/29/2024 at 9:26 AM, olemisscub said:

He was talking about people who did it recreationally for fun. My ears also perked up as soon as he said but then I realized he was referring to the skydiving fad of "pulling a Cooper". It was a thing for a while to jump out the back of a 727 at skydiving events. 

This wasn't hugely common due to the logistics, but happened primarily for a few years at the annual World Freefall Convention, earlier known as the Freak Brothers Convention. This was an annual event thrown by Roger Nelson, an early skydiving pioneer and marijuana smuggler. Roger was an interesting, colorful, and ballsy character. Those interested in Cooper-type adventures may want to read the book 'Sugar Alpha: The Life and Times of Señor Huevos Grandes', written from Roger's notes by his daughter Melissa Nelson. It covers his smuggling days and is a great read.

Hi Craig, thanks for looking in. I was hoping you'd remember more, but that's ok. If Craig Fronk was an aeronautical engineer and spent significant time at Perris, do you think that you'd have been acquainted with him?

2 hours ago, kleggo said:

From Carl's Masters of the Sky?

The first video of the Elsinore 50-way was Carl's, and the sequence was in 'Skydive!'. The second, Mirror Image video was BJ Worth's, with help from Rande DeLuca and others.

I have a couple questions...

Pardon me if I have this wrong, but about Tina - Until the recent RS interview, and the movie thing(?), she was somewhat media shy, right? I know she appeared on at least one TV special, but after the event, she didn't like being associated with it? Didn't she at one point abscond herself to a nunnery? If that's right, does someone know exactly when that was, month and year?

Olemiss, in the beginning of that stream thing you did recently with Nicky, you said you had a list of like 400(?) possible suspects? Where do those come from? FBI files, conjecture from yourself and others, some combination? Is there a way I could see that list?

44 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Would it have been prior to his re-locating to SoCal?

Yes. I believe Craig spent the bulk of his prime competitive career with Mirror Image. For several years Visions and Mirror Image were cross-state rivals, both striving to unseat the formidable US Army Golden Knights, who's full time job was to win skydiving competitions. (Who was the guy that ran that team, Andy somethingorother?) I think it was after MI disbanded that Craig and Hod jumped with Visions, along with Al, for one season, perhaps Visions' last. I don't think he actually lived here for any time, or I would be more familiar with him. I've lived in and jumped So Cal all my life.

4 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

However, I do believe that Craig was never with Mirror Image.

Huh?? Did you look at the video I linked to? The 2nd comment, someone names the team members including Craig, and he can be seen several times in the video. Jerry Swovelin could clear this up, but I don't think he comes in here anymore except when he has news to post. I'm not on Facebook, but if you are (or someone else who's reading), maybe someone in the Old School Skydivers' page can confirm one way or the other.

9 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

I first met Craig in about 1970; he had about 25-35 jumps.  He began his jumping at the old Issaquah, WA dz.

Craig was a true organizer/team leader.  He tried & tried to build a competitive team here in the PacNW.  The weather would just not allow it.  So, he relocated to SoCal.  It only took him a few yrs to 'move' Al K out as the team leader.  

Again, it's been a long time and maybe I've forgotten some things...  But the way I remember it, Visions ran for a number of years. I think the Coors sponsorship only lasted two seasons, then they went back to being Visions. I know Craig (and Hod Sanders) jumped with them for a bit, but I think that was only one season towards the end. Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but your term 'move out' sort of sounds like 'hostile takeover'. I can't imagine any of those people having anything but the utmost respect for each other. Maybe Al sort of retired from it at the end, but I don't remember that. I don't remember a Visions that wasn't led by Al, and I was a regular at Perris through that era. I was kind of hoping Kleggo would chime in, because he was too.

I'm certainly aware of Craig Fronk, but I'm not as familiar with him. But you might be forgetting and conflating the years he spent with Mirror Image in Pope Valley (where he might have took over for Jerry Bird?) between his times in WA and SoCal.

(thanks, Wendy!)

2 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Not to argue; but, are you sure that Al was the captain at that time?  I 'thought' that by the time that they became the Coors Team that Craig Fronk was running things.

I am fairly sure that Craig was the guy who got them the Coors sponsorship.

Well it's been a long time, but I thought Al was running the team the whole time, even when Craig was there. If Craig was who got them the sponsorship that may well be, but the way I remember it...

But it has been a long time and I could be wrong myself...

Kleggo, you reading this? Do you remember?

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On a side note, did you do anything to make that link a clicky? I don't know how that works, all I know is to copy and paste the url. Sometimes it embeds, sometimes it clickies, sometimes it does neither, and I don't do anything different?

On 3/17/2024 at 10:27 AM, jakebaustin said:

the Coors Demo double fatality in Perris 1988

Not sure if you just worded that wrong, but that was not a demo. It was two highly experienced jumpers doing a tandem at the Perris dz. I believe it's number 5 on the first page of pchapman's list above. Dave Wilds was the TM, Terry Dean was the passenger. (I won't name the camera flyer out of respect for his privacy. It was not KC.) Dave and Terry were part of a world-class top-competitor 8-way team captained by Al Krueger. The team ran for a number of years and was normally known as Visions, but for a couple years they were sponsored by Coors. I believe it's Dave Wilds that can be seen at 0:46 to 1:07 in the video linked below, in the white jumpsuit and helmet, blue rig, doing the ultra-cool hands-behind-the-back swoop. Yes, that's what 'swooping' referred to back then. Horrifically sad day.

Just thought I'd remember that...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpaIZLdnZVc

6 hours ago, MrSkydiver said:

Phil Mayfield

BASE #2

9 hours ago, DanCooperHimself said:

I have always been in the dead camp. Anyone alive after 24/11/71 was a no from me and this has never changed.

Why are you so convinced he died?

7 hours ago, Cola said:

Don't apologize  -  I was going for some levity and a bit of humor in my post - but I missed on my delivery, so I'm sorry  I was not so overt..... We're good.

Uh oh, now I'm exposed as a bit of a hypocrite, haha. I make some slightly smart-ass remarks myself, but it's always done tongue-in-cheek and with a smile, hoping for a dry chuckle. That I failed to see that in your post leaves me with a bit of egg on my grinning face. Good indeed.

5 hours ago, Cola said:

50 years later what evidentiary value is there in knowing if he had a tic or not.

It's past it's usefulness at this point if true. 

I'm not sure about that. That's a fairly distinct identifier, if true. If somebody out there had suspicions about somebody, something like that might bring out a new suspect to be looked into.

I've sometimes thought that somebody out there know who Cooper is, but nobody believes them. For example, that MMA guy, Sonnen, thinks it was a friend of his dad. I'm not saying I believe that, but for the sake of argument, what if he's right? He didn't come up with that through thorough research, he just happens to know the guy. So if he has some case details wrong, so what? If he hasn't discussed it in detail with the guy, what would he know about the case other that what he has casually heard? (I think I've said that before, too, hehe.)

7 hours ago, Cola said:

Dude.... you brought that up 4 years ago....

Yes I did and I thought I indicated as much. Olemiss' post about Rose reminded me of it, and since there are a few more knowledgeable people around here who weren't posting back then, including yourself, I thought I'd ask again. I apologize if I disrupted the constant flow of brand new evidence.

8 hours ago, Chaucer said:

 I think this is the origin of the tic notion. 

Yes. Not sure who 'Prospector' is.

OK, that makes more sense. Haha indeed! Profiles are part of what we have to go with, updating helps. Carry on...

9 hours ago, Avikus said:

I got task to give a presentation at our Safety Day...  So I came here to see if I can get a few more ideas...

I mean no disrespect, but at 4 years, 450 jumps, and this list of questions, are you sure you should be giving this presentation, or rather should you be attending it? Why aren't the highly experienced instructors and riggers at your dz giving the talks?

1 hour ago, Chaucer said:

Do you mean the protruding lower lip that the eyewitnesses kept mentioning?

No, the lip thing is a fairly common part of the description and would not stand out. Someone mentioned a tic.

On 2/21/2024 at 10:55 AM, olemisscub said:

Roy Rose has passed away at age 98. 

That's the composite sketch guy, right? Some time ago on Shutter's site, someone mentioned the idea that Cooper may have had a facial tic. For some reason that caught my attention and I asked about it. Most people discounted it, but someone said that idea came from the sketch guy (Rose?), that one of the stews or someone had mentioned that to him. Does anyone know anything about that?

1 hour ago, Robert99 said:

Sixty years ago, we only had access to surplus WW2 equipment.  I always made certain that both reserve snaps were properly closed when I jumped.  Nevertheless, one of the snaps would probably come open on about half of the jumps.  Some jumpers would drill a small hole in the snaps and insert a pin to make sure the snap couldn't come open.

Ahh, the old days, when sex was safe and skydiving was dangerous, haha. I made my first 50 or so jumps on that type of gear. Those springs had a habit getting loose, dislodged, or popping out. They needed to be replaced, though. I remember the pin fix, not sure if it was legal but it worked. Just think, though, half of your jumps the reserve was marginally workable? That's black death, brother. Ha!

1 hour ago, Robert99 said:

Even the Para Commanders were in the future.

Double Ha!, yer older than me! (Grinning cheshire-ly)

2 hours ago, Robert99 said:

Here is a true story...

Interesting story. The TSO testing for the reserve system includes every part of it - the harness, reserve container, canopy, and all deployment devices and attachments (the D-rings and clips). The main container is not part of the process, which is why it wouldn't be legal, even if he put a reserve canopy in it. That there is a human error component possible in attaching the clips to the D-rings is exactly why that cross-connecter is there. Now I'm going to give your rigger/instructor friend some grief. That he would fail to properly connect the reserve container, on any jump much less one where he intended to use it, is on par with the base jumper fatality you can currently find in the incident forum on this site, where he mis-routed his bridle. Before you say that he would have attached it properly, the clips include a spring-loaded gate that is designed to prevent it from coming off. Maintaining the functionality of that gate is part of a rigger's responsibility, and it is incumbent on the user to ensure that it works properly. Every. Single. Time. Complacency kills.

10 hours ago, olemisscub said:

I was under the impression that all parachute packs would have packing cards in them. That’s not the case?

To add to my answer above, that answer, as with most of my gear descriptions in this thread, is with Cooper era gear in mind. Back mains that pair with front reserves. Modern era piggyback rigs, with the main and reserve both incorporated into the same rig, those all do have packing cards, the card being pertinent to the reserve. The rigs that do not have cards are Cooper era back mains, which that McCoy rig is. Bailout rigs of all eras and types do have cards.

3 hours ago, olemisscub said:

I was under the impression that all parachute packs would have packing cards in them. That’s not the case?

No. Reserves and bailout rigs are considered 'life-saving' devices. They are designed primarily for reliability, and have to pass testing standards. They are required to be inspected and packed by a licensed rigger within certain time periods. They have seals and packing cards. One of the purposes of the packing card is so that the user, the pilot, or other interested party (such as a drop zone owner or incident investigator) can check to make sure it is 'in date', and legal to use. Mains are considered 'sporting equipment', and do not have to meet those standards. Manufacturers can design them more for flight performance, which might affect their reliability. They don't require seals or cards. In the sport environment, mains might be used several times a day, or week, or however busy the jumper is. A card would be superfluous and impossible to keep up with. A main is supposed to be packed by either the user, a rigger, or someone 'under the supervision' of a rigger, which means someone a rigger approves. Military might be different. I'm not a rigger, so I'm not sure. Some military mains might have cards, but I've never heard of it, I don't think so. The idea would be that if there was an incident, they would want to know who packed it. But in any military operation, they would know which military loft the gear came from, and the loft would keep such records.

9 hours ago, olemisscub said:

that McCoy rig has both capewells and D-rings, which Coop’s chute didn’t have 

Exactly, which is part of what identifies it as a main, and not a bailout rig, thus no packing card that would go with it.

9 hours ago, olemisscub said:

Watch my video to see the cavalcade of information that eliminates McCoy. 

Thanks for posting that, interesting stuff in there. One is how close he landed to his home, and stashed the rig and the money. So did he get his rig home, is that one the one he used in his hijacking? Also interesting is that he specified what type of gear he wanted them to get for him, even indicating to get it from Perry Stevens. Perry was an early innovator of parachuting, instruction, and gear. He invented one particular simple back-up safety device that is now present on nearly every rig, and has saved many many lives over the years. I think 377 has said that Perry was one of his early instructors. And even with that, McCoy brought his own rig. I had wondered how he got his rig on board undetected. Interesting that he put it in checked luggage, then had all the luggage put out so he could find his. Makes me wonder - is there a way to get from the passenger compartment down into the luggage hold in flight? How was luggage stored in those days? Could Cooper have possibly had an accomplice check a case that he could have gone down and gotten?

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7 hours ago, georger said:

Didnt it all start with McCoy .... or as it were .... Galen Cook and his FBI friends. What goes round sometimes comes around. Like a beetle traveling on a ball. The bigger the ball the longer it takes. Is this a rumor, a cause, promotion, wishful thinking, a plan, an award, or just beetles traveling on the social media plane ? What goes around comes around. I am sure Galen Cook is smiling in any event. Maybe Galen started this rumor too ? Is Galen Cook still alive ?

I don't know enough about Galen Cook to fully understand this reference. But the round and round part... I'm having a hard time not going down a rabbit hole of what the FBI might be up to. At this point (not just Cooper, but everything in general) I don't put nuthin' past nobody. Rabbit holes... It's where the feddin' wabbits live.