virtek

You know, I don't really understand why DZO's don't just set up the same kind of thing, except be honest about it. Why not set up lots of websites (sure there is a small cost) then get some good search engine optimiser to get up there on the top of google, and then Tandem's will come flooding in to the DZO's directly rather than via skyride... Everyone seems to be intent on stopping Skyride with the law, why not just outdo them in business. Then they'll just disappear

I have my own thoughts on this - maybe there were enough AFF instructors - they were doing AFF that day... but it seems there was a shortage of Tandem instructors.. that's why the AFF instructors did the Tandems... There will always be more Tandem instructors than AFF instructors. TI is easier to attain than AFF instructor, not the other way around.

Ah, ok, thanks for clearing that up. That's not really on then and I'm with you on that one.

Does a tandem rider not require USPA membership - not even temporary ? Interesting - I would have expected them to need it, I believe you need BPA membership in the UK to do a tandem in the UK If it is the case that Tandems do require some form of membership, then given the better accident record of tandems (i.e. less accidents) I would fully expect the tandems to be helping keep our Insurance premiums down, so if they do require membership then thanks again for saving me money mr .tandem rider. If they don't need membership then they won't be getting any benefit from USPA and our membership, thus they are non existent as far as our insurance is concerned, thus they are neutral re: USPA costs

Hi NickD, were you taking one comment out of context which I was using to make a point that tandem factories are businesses and thus their policies are up to them, not me ? That therefore makes me a customer and not skydiver huh, well maybe only the English get irony and sarcasm... and picking on things out of context is bad form I think. Maybe you missed the point – the point is that it is not up to me to tell any DZ how they can be run, I just have to live with what they choose, the same as you do. Perhaps I should tell you how you should make money if I don’t like how you make a living. Do you think you would you do as I asked or do as you wanted ? As a thought, do you really believe you weren't a customer of someone in years gone by, or did some nice guy give you free gear, food, beer and jump tickets ? Maybe you were at a club which was likely cool and enjoyable but then maybe Strong or Booth or whomever just made the rigs that you used just did it for fun, not to live off from running a business… you ever think to tell them they shouldn’t run their business their way because maybe their prices are darned expensive at 1-2k or so for a container ? My own profession, writing computer software also has changed beyond recognition in 20 years - writing computer games that took 3.5k, yep just 3500 bytes with a team of maybe 2 people, was commonplace when I started, now you need huge teams of impersonal team members who need gigabytes of memory and huge dollops of computing power just to make things work. I'll be honest, I prefer the old days, but I realise they are gone so I move with the times, not complaining about the way things are compared to yesteryear. I have some fun tales to regale my friends with but I don't sit at my desk complaining that some other time was better and that some new programmer is just a customer because he/she didn’t do it the way I did years ago. At the moment I jump from a porter, which takes 13 mins to 13500. I'm quite pleased not to have to sit around all day waiting for a Cessna which I can get into which gets me to 10k in 40 minutes like my brother does - he hates that. Maybe this fast plane is the tandem's fault, in which case, thank you tandems. You might prefer the atmosphere of years gone by, but I like to actually jump too, and in the UK, when it's raining the atmosphere just ain't that good, the barbeque gets rained on and so on. Interestingly, in the UK, static line students make more money for DZO's than tandems and AFF (so say the DZO's I have spoken to - 1 instructor to pay per load of paying students is all that’s needed - do the math), so if they were just interested in money, fun jumpers, Tandems and AFF's would be banned. Weird way to look at it huh. And I'm not sure you spawned anything (unless you are a DZO), I think the world just moved on - embrace it and be happy

What a shame, I arrive in Florida late Friday from the UK

I'm hearing a lot of "Tandem factories are no good", and they take away real skydivers... I would be interested in what people think of the fact that the world has changed in the last 20 years, equipment is expensive now, jumps are expensive now, The internet is stopping people go outside as much, or maybe it's giving people the chance to find a DZ and so on, so many things are different to many years ago. I remember my dad looking at my car and asking where the carb was and so on, pooh-poohing the fact that it's hard to mod your own car yourself like you could in the past, I'm sure his dad pooh poohed the car my dad had, not made by a craftsman and so on. Times move on and things change. For all those who think we should jump rounds to weed out the less macho types, I would like those people to go back to crossply tires on their cars and get a huge gas guzzling monster 429ci mustang and see how it compares to their newer car. In any case, I agree with the initial post that if you are told one thing then you travel 100miles to get told a different story, then I would be annoyed too. As regards tandem factories, I'm going to go down to my local computer shop and tell them they suck because they don't do lifts for fun jumpers... or is it none of my business what they choose to do in their business.. hmmm

I think the other people here are telling you exactly that.

I agree that Skyride needs dealing with, although it seems to me that if the are found guilty of taking money by deception they can be dealt with anyway under existing laws. E.g. They say the DZ is 10 mins away when it's really 3 hours away - they know it's the case, that's deception right ? Think about Larsen and Brusgaard who are very well regarded. Some new altimeter company decided they want to stitch up their competitors and anonymously complain to the Tennessee cops and report the L&B website for not saying where they are based... you think this law is good now ? These kinds of laws are generally not thought through at all as to the consequences.

Did I miss something - I run a Website in England, if you view it in Tenesee, I have to state what Country I'm in or I break your law - I don't really care ? or does it mean that I just need to move my website to another state.. or country... pretty easy to sidestep your legislation... So if you have a company who has call centres in say Florida, even though they sell services in Tenesee, they are breaking the law - seems a bit stupid to me. So I understand it, If I have a US phone number, which I do, and it gets routed to me in the UK, so it's cheaper for US citizens to call me (I.e. I'm doing you a favour), In Tenesee, I'm breaking the law and if so what is Tenesee going to do about it ? Doesn't take a wizard to see that Skyride could set up offshore, and do the same scams.... These types of laws are insular and cause more harm than good I think - Tenesee will find itself isolated soon if it keeps this kind of thing up..

Sounds like we agree, I misread your previous post, sorry man.

These looks to me like errors of judgement by the jumpers involved. Errors of judgement should not be used as an argument to stop you using an AAD. Better to educate jumpers about risk than tell them not to use an AAD.

I think that everyone needs to do a proper risk analysis then make their own mind up from the facts rather than what they are told or what their ego says to them. A long time ago I worked for 6 months in s sheet metal factory. My supervisor sniggered and shook his head every time I put goggles on before using grinding tools... after about 2 weeks of me being there he had to go to hospital to get a metal splinter out of his eye.. he wore goggles and didn't snigger and shake his head after that. His attitude reminds me of many skydivers who don't properly weight up the risk one way or the other. Many comments I hear go along the lines of "I know 1 or 2 special/exceptional cases of some deadly problem or a life saved therefore my own argument is confirmed by that case... QED" Seems to me that people's minds are already made up and they are just looking for an example that upholds their decision (this is called confirmation bias by the way) Having looked at the accident reports for non swoopers, I prefer to use an AAD - the benefit of the device outweight the risks as far as my analysis goes. This is as a fairly new jumper who doesn't swoop yet. When I get around to swooping I'll study the accident stats again on how AAD's affect swoopers and make a new determination at that time.

There is a long time AFF instructor, Kevin Hardwick who has had I believe around 13000 since his last cutaway