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Everything posted by snowmman
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just posting this because it was there. I know this has been dismissed, but here's the photo anyhow. December 18, 1982 Original caption: Portland, Oregon: Blake Payne stands in stern of his charter boat late December 18th, and holds up what he thinks is a piece of "D.B. Cooper's" parachute. Payne has been dragging the bottom of the Columbia River for the past month and a half, looking for evidence that "Cooper," did land in the Columbia after parachuting from hijacked airliner. On the stern is "rake," Payne designed to drag the bottom of the river.
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They are from the corbis professional news photo distribution site. They have their archive available for sale. You can search it. I'm assuming the accuracy chain is good. I have another photo of the dig (attached) from that waymarking site. Unknown source but it seems correct. Maybe can judge distance from water with that picture too. What I'm wondering about is the people doing the excavation. They look like students? I wonder if they were students of the professor. They don't look like "fbi agents". I'm wondering about the quality of the evidence search. *** Pictures of the dig are absolutely significant. In all these pictures that people keep posting (where are they coming from??) they're digging not too far from the water's edge. Just looking at that photo you posted, I can easily see how money could get washed up several feet from the edge. ***
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from corbis. Historical photo from 1980 interestingly gives us the money location (which we already knew but nice to see the picture in a historical context..I guess they released info to press at the time) Original caption: Vancouver, Washington: Map spots the area where some several thousand dollars of the D.B. Cooper hijack was found 2/10/80 by Brian Ingram, 8, while on a family outing. The money was badly decomposed and examination revealed that the serial numbers were identical to those given to the hijacker on Nov. 24, 1971. The exact location of the find was 12112 NW Lower River Road, Vancouver, Washington.
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from corbis site. Thought it was good to get a feel for what kind of people the parents were, in terms of witnesses. (subjective data can be good data sometimes)
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That b/w photo is available from corbis a professional photo distribution service. I'm assuming it's correct historical. I searched for Ingram photos on their site (you can buy all their archived photos. "ingram bills" used at http://pro.corbis.com/search/searchFrame.aspx the photo of the bills comes up and they also have a nice photo of FBI agents digging by the river I'd not seen before. (attached) I also attached a photo of Brian Ingram demonstrating at the time how he smoothed the sand with his hand (that description of the photo is from the corbis site)
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Okay I'm going to get flamed, but I want more data to prove me wrong. I think the 8 year old kid is the only one who says the rubber bands turned to dust when touched, and the only one who thought he saw rubber bands. He may have been reacting to what he thought agents wanted him to say, also. Think about it: that's B.S. regardless of age, a decomposing rubber band doesn't "turn to dust" when you touch it..it's either hard little pieces or sticky and gummy, if it's in a state where it's going to stay around some bills...it's not going to go from a "almost holding the stack state" to "dust when you touch it".... Has anyone reproduced a "turn to dust" decomposition? I don't think so. I'm not even sure the parents saw the rubber bands. The FBI I think definitely didn't if they didn't see the stacks till the next day after drying in the kitchen. Are we relying on the testimony of the 8 year old Brian Ingram about decomposing rubber bands? Since so much of the money deposit theories depends on the rubber bands, if there really were no rubber bands, then we need to rethink?
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(edit: okay, as noted, not all bills were L. Still, a nice photo, so I'll leave the post) Original caption: The badly decomposed $20 dollar bills were shown to newsmen after check of their serial numbers showed that they were identical to the bills given to hijacker D.B. Cooper on November 24, 1971. The money was found by Brian Ingram, 8, who was searching for firewood while on a family outing with his parents, Mr. and Mrs. Harold Dwayne Ingram of Vancouver, Washington. The money was found on the north shore of the Columbia River, partially buried in the sand.) I had thought all the bills given to Cooper were L bills. (Edit: not. I've been clearified. Thank you) I got a nice picture from the nymag article at http://nymag.com/news/features/39617/ that had a better angled view of the money I'd not seen before. It's better for judging decay I think than the straight on views. attached also. In any case, look at the top bill in the 2nd stack back from the foreground. It's not an L bill. Are we saying that Cooper got something other than L bills? (yes) I also read an article that says Ingrams family took the money back home and dried it in their kitchen before they realized the import and notified FBI. So FBI didn't see the bills when they were in bundles. That's all hearsay info from Ingrams? I'm thinking the only one that saw rubber bands were Ingrams. Interestingly the evidence was bills and bands (even if they crumbled) But I don't think any rubber band evidence was photographed or kept? it's all witness testimony on the rubber bands? here's the decode for Federal Reserve District Seals A: Boston B: New York C: Philadelphia D: Cleveland E: Richmond F: Atlanta G: Chicago H: St. Louis I: Minneapolis J: Kansas City K: Dallas L: San Francisco
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interesting albert18. in the transcripts you could see how he was stressing about the time to get the chutes too....but heck like you say it was the day before thanksgiving, and it was getting close to the end of business hours. I mean did he even think he might have created the delay problems himself? weird. it's interesting to think that a plan would be to have everyone else off balance...like I say a Bruce Willis movie. But you're right, if he planned on a jump at night to escape detection, and knowing they'd search the next day...having the search start on a holiday would be a good way to mess everyone up! no one's around or contactable (no cell phones/email then)
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The question of manuals is interesting. From the transcripts, you can see that at least some number of humans also had defacto operational knowledge of inflight aft stair opening behavior. We don't know how widespread this knowledge was, or where flt ops got it from when they communicated it to the pilots. We don't know why they quickly were able to determine that the plane would fly well in that configuration because 2 to 3 hundred lb. boxes had been shoved out with that option before..i.e. who they talked to. from the transcripts: note on page 12 they say they know the plane has been flown with the stairs lowered "MSP FLT OPS HAVE NO CNTRL PROBLEM WHEN XTNDD MAY BE SUM SLITE PITCHUP BUT ERY CNTRLLBL PLANE HAS BEEN FLOWN THIS WAY HAVE LARGE BOXES OF 2 TO 3HND LBS THRU THE DOOR IN THIS CONFIG MUST BE DOWN WITH LANDING FLAPS SPEED NOT TO CRITICAL ANY FLAT POSN BTWN 5 AND 40 AND SPEED TO 120 KTS DONT HAVE ANGLE YET BUT WORKING ON IT"
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safe: remember they microfiched all the bills, so they had to tear apart the bundles from their original configuration at the bank/FBI. when they repackaged after the fiche, maybe that was random bundle sizing... I'm assuming they know that they used rubber bands for that repack (wouldn't the bank/fbi have used paper wrappers in stacks of 50) I'm also assuming that the number of bills in the found stacks was within the range of what the repackers thought they probably did. If the found stacks were 100 bill stacks, and the packers said "no way we put that many in a stack with our rubber bands" then I would be thinking the money was repacked by someone else and buried there later on... On your money list, can we say we know for sure that the bundles are within the expected configuration of bundles that were delivered to Cooper. So no one repacked? (Maybe the FBI fiched the money before they made bundles and stored. I don't know)
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Thanks Safe! So if the original kid/parents unearthed the 3 bundles, then they probably disturbed the placement location, and the FBI wouldn't have discovered any additional placement information. We just have to assume the bundles were physically close, within a distance reported by the kids/parents. And that later FBI digging only produced fragments. I'm still thinking "okay the bladed dredger will shred bills...and shredded bills are found..so that makes sense..but then we find 3 bundles and use that to justify saying that the dredging machine NO WAY could move 3 bundles successfully. Why am I supposed to agree with that?" I know when I use a chipper/shredder to destroy evidence once in a while big chunks of stuff gets thru and I have to run it thru again. Who's guaranteeing the dredger can't pass a small percentage of the bundles, but shred most of them? No testing of that theory was done...just opinion from operator"
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*** rot time of canvas bag is unknown *** thanks. Also note that Ckret implied (I think?) that the tight binding of the money bag was part of his story. So it's also worth noting that no nylon rope was found? Maybe Ckret has changed thinking or I'm misinterpreting. We know rope was attached with some degree of quality in the plane (visual from stewardess). From that point, to where the money was found, the rope somehow disappeared too. It's important to note what's not found, not just what's found. Not finding something (within the specified search area) is important. That's why it's not just a math equation with obvious variables.
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One way to find evidence is to just look at stuff that was previously not analyzed to see if it can mean anything. Looking at the 1972 hijackings allows you to create a mental profile of what kind of people might typically do such a thing, and how they would carry it out. Anything different, might be interesting in the Cooper case. So Thanksgiving Eve is interesting. It allowed people to remember where McCoy was on Thanksgiving and give him an alibi. People remember holidays. McCoy had Thanksgiving dinner with his family in Provo, Utah. So this is what I'm thinking. one of three hoices. 1) Cooper didn't care about Thanksgiving because no one was going to call him (parents or brothers or sisters) and find out he wasn't home yet. And he had no plans for making a family Thanksgiving dinner. If he missed a call, his family would remember and be asking "where were you" or 2) He thought he'd get the job done in time to make a Thanksgiving dinner, and that would serve sort of as a weak alibi "Hey: Coop was with us for Thanksgiving..no way he did it, the timeline's too tight." or 3) Culturally, Thanksgiving dinners weren't part of his life. But picking the name "Dan Cooper" makes me think that that if there was family around him, that culturally he'd be doing Thanksgiving. Also, I don't know if back then air traffic was higher right before Thanksgiving. I'm not sure you'd want to do it with "more" people on your flight, if you were planning it well? just more unknown variables? Either way, it's an odd date choice. It's like a Bruce Willis action movie...the big hijacking at christmas and Ckret has to climb over the broken glass barefoot and yell "Yippee Ki-Yi-Yay mo...f...er" as he takes down Cooper. Maybe the date was random. If part of an alibi plan, it might strengthen the idea that he was local to the Portland/Vancouver area, rather than the Seattle area.[url]
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There's only one line about the money bag, relating to float time. If the money bag is going to be implied to be related to the condition or placement of the money, doesn't there need to be a statement about why the money bag isn't there any more? Shouldn't there be statements about what makes a money bag go away. Statements about rot, or ??? The long list makes it sound scientific, but it sounds a little like picking and chosing from "facts" that one likes.
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On your list of "what's known" about the money, shouldn't you include "within the 150 ft search region the FBI used" It was a constrained search. So the info necessarily could be limited. If instead the search went for 2 miles and there was more info, or no info, then that would lead one to think other things, maybe. Am I wrong in saying that there really is no info about bundle placement? The kid found the first 3 bundles right? so there's no info about their exact placement cause they disturbed them. The bundles were what? stacks of 50 when Cooper got them? or ??? For the total $ reported, were other bundles found or was that then from the accumulation of lots of other pieces? I know you're going to tell me to go look back in the posts. Jeesh. I can't believe how hard it is to get you guys to type a simple 5 sentence current summary on details.
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Okay I'm going to post little snippets here of all the 1972 parachute related hijacks. Note not all of them had jumps. But it makes me think. Cooper could have done it. He may have succeded because the citizens in the Northwest were supportive, as opposed to these other areas of the country. Also the FBI had experience by then with the problem. Note the use of tracking devices (they say) Also, these other guys mostly had guns. People don't like guns. Some of them were younger. An older, smooth operator can get away with a lot. The 1972 hijack facts also make you really that there was a lot of hysteria at the time. In summer 1972, the govt was being attacked with "what are we going to do" demands. You can imagine there was a lot of pressure to just say Cooper didn't make it. You can easily ask: how come no one remembers all these. We talk about McCoy, but that's about it. No wonder they had to seal up the 727 aft doors. (no guarantee on completeness for 1972 parachute related hijacks...I just put a little bit of work into this..note some repeat mentions so don't just count) One of the successful jumps is this guy in colorado in a DC-9. Jan. 20: Richard Charles LaPoint, 23, an ex-Army paratrooper, used a fake bomb to obtain $50,000 and two parachutes from Hughes Airwest. He jumped to safety 80 miles northeast of Denver, but was later captured. Then McCoy Then the guy in Central America. Then McNally. McNally was interesting as I noted in prior post. Some are duplicate articles, but I included them so you can see more text. FBI/police did a pretty good job in '72 when things were going crazy. They all were caught...even the guys that jumped. [Jan 21, 1972] A young man saying he had a bomb hijacked a jetliner today, obtained two parachutes and a $50000 ransom, bailed out over Colorado and was then captured near his parachute, silent, mud-splattered and injured. The twin-engine Hughes Air-I west DC-9 was taken over on the runway at Las Vegas, Nev., ... From Hijacker of Jet Parachutes In Colorado and Is... [Jan 21, 1972] "We tracked him for half a mile." an FBI agent said. "We followed Ihe footprints be led in tile snow and mud." Tile Air force said il bug- geil the two bright orange parachutes given In l.aPiiml with homing devices lo allow easy tracking when be bailed out. The hijacker apparently did not notice ... From Daily Review, The (Newspaper) - January 21, 1972,... [Jan 27, 1972] A Mohawk Airlines plane from Albany to New York City, hijacked to Westchester County Airport last night, took off again early today and landed at Poughkeepsie, with only the three crew members, the armed hijacker and the parachutes and $200000 in cash he had demanded aboard. .. [Apr 9, 1972] I'm inclined to think he used his own parachute,' Captain Hearn said-. The armed hijacker took over the Plane yesterday afternoon a.few minutes ... The hunt for tile cool, bespectacled hijacker, who jumped from the. airliner with a parachute in which a radio signaling device had been planted ... From Suspect Is Hunted in $500000 Hijacking of... - New York Times ($$) [Apr 10, 1972] A law enforcement student and skydiving enthusiast, who said that he had been a Green Beret and a helicopter pilot while in Vietnam, was arrested today and charged with the $500000 extortion-parachute hijacking of a United Air Lines 727 jet on Friday. Associated Press SEIZED IN HIJACKING: ... From Skydiver Held as Hijacker; $500000 Is Still... - New York Times ($$) [Apr 10, 1972] Friday's hijacking was the seventh involving parachutes in just under five months. FBI[ agents say that it was not con-' nected with any of the others, including the one involving a man known as DB Cooper, still sought after bailing out over Washington last ThanksgivingEve with $200000 ... [May 6, 1972] After the hijacker bailed out, the plane flew 80 mites to Me- rida, Mexico, and landed with the crew all reported in good I condition. Nieto said it was presumed the skyjacker jumped with the I in ransom which he took on during a stop in Wash- ington, DC The hijacker also had six .parachutes, ... From The Daily Times News (Newspaper) - May 6, 1972, [May 7, 1972] A hijacker who extorted $303000 from Eastern Airlines parachuted into Central America before dawn today, apparently leaving little trace. The crew of the aircraft landed safely in Mexico, exhausted after a 21-hour ordeal that began in Pennsylvania. One report, said that tlie hijacker had left ... [May 7, 1972] The plane did fly over British Honduras but did not land at Belize, apparently on orders of the hijacker, who had in his possession a gun, two bush , two jump suits, two crash helmets, food, drink, cigarettes, the money and six parachutes. lie is believed .to have jumped some time between 4 AM ... From Hijacker, With $303000, Jumps in Central America [Jun 24, 1972] In addition to the extortion money and the parachutes, the hijacker demanded an Army shovel and a radar-scanning device with which he evidently intended to monitor whether any "chase" planes were following him. I According to Tile AssociatedI Press, a radio operator at the airport who monitored ... From HIJACKED PLANE RAMMED BY AUTO; Hijacked Plane Is... - New York Times ($$) [Jun 26, 1972] The growing belief that the 3200-acre reservoir may hold the body of the hijacker was [linked in part to a theory that 'his parachute did not open when he jumped to fell from an American Airlines 727. Radar fixes pinpointed his departure from the airliner at ,the eastern edge of this city at an ... From 150 Searchers Find No Trace of Hijacker in Indiana - [Jun 30, 1972] Martin Joseph McNally, 28 years old, was arrested last night in front of his home in Wyandotte, Mich., outside Detroit, by agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation and charged with air piracy in connection with an airline hijacking in the Midwest last week in which $502000 ransom was paid. [Jul 7, 1972] The hijacker took off after he received the money, a parachute and handcuffs. He said the money was to be given to "two organizations involved in the ... The hijacker said he would release all but ,wo male passengers once he received he and parachute. He added ,that he would give his destination ... From Hijacker Seizes Coast Jet, Flies Off With 5... [Oct 7, 1972] Officers returned fire and thought they hit the hijacker nut waited until daybreak to board the plane. They said they bund the man's body sprawled outside the control cabin, a .22 caliber pistol beside it. Police said the hijacker's tiitcase contained cartridges nid a parachute. Pres. ... [Nov 16, 1972] The hijacker, a bearded man 34 years old, had demanded a parachute and transfer to a small plane for a flight to a remote area west of here. ... A policeman managed to approach while the hijacker was tying on his parachute. The policeman was shot after he tried unsuccessfully to grab the rifle. ... From AUSTRALIANS KILL ARMED HIJACKER; Police Battle... - New York Times ($$)
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There were a LOT of hijack attempts with parachutes in 1972. I'll put out another message with snippets so you can see some parts of the news archives without paying for it. But I wanted to break out the details of Martin J. McNally because he apparently did a successful 727 jump while the indicated airspeed with 263 knots, in 1972. (he was caught later). Hard to believe the 263 knots reported below is correct. Also note it was 3 A.M. night jump. Cooper had it easy in comparison? I would also note you could be pretty inept and still get out of the plane and live see other details at http://www.tulsaworld.com/webextra/itemsofinterest/centennial/centennial_storypage.asp?ID=070729_1_A4_spanc01672 This is from the court of appeals for the case http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F2/485/485.F2d.398.73-1061.html UNITED STATES of America, Appellee, v. Martin J. McNALLY, Appellant. On June 23, 1972, at approximately 2:35 p. m., an American Airline Boeing 727 jet airplane, Flight No. 119, having originated in New York, left St. Louis, Missouri, bound for Tulsa, Phoenix, and Los Angeles. At about 3:15 p. m. and when approximately 20 minutes before planned arrival in Tulsa, the defendant, holding a machine gun, accosted one of the four stewardesses and gave her two notes to deliver to the captain. The notes in part demanded $502,000 cash, certain parachuting equipment, and the return of the flight to St. Louis. 5 The plane returned to St. Louis and landed at about 4:00 p. m. The women, children, and some men deplaned. The plane refueled and circled St. Louis, awaiting the collection of the money and the equipment. After the defendant was told that the money was not available in St. Louis but was in Fort Worth, Texas, the airplane headed for Fort Worth at 6:45 p. m. 6 At about 7:45 p. m., the captain was informed that the money could be collected in St. Louis, and the flight was redirected to St. Louis, where it landed at Lambert Field at 9:25 p. m. for the second time on June 23d. During this time on the runway, a male passenger retrieved the money and parachuting equipment outside the jet. The defendant then allowed all the original crew, except two stewardesses, to deplane; one male passenger was ordered to remain on board as a hostage. The new captain and crew, including a FBI agent disguised as a pilot, boarded the flight for a new destination. 7 With the relief crew in command, the same American Airlines Boeing 727 began to taxi for lift-off. In the process, however, a late model automobile, which had broken through the airport security gates, struck the airplane on its underside and disabled it. A private citizen, acting entirely on his own, drove the car about 90 miles per hour into the airplane. After several minutes of high tension and assurances that the FBI was not involved in this misdirected and unfortunate incident, arrangements were made for another American Airlines airplane, a Boeing 727 jet designated Flight No. 821, to accommodate the hijacker's demands. The entourage transferred to this plane, with the hijacker in control. He ordered the plane to proceed toward Canada. At 3 a. m. on June 24th, en route to Canada, traveling at 10,000 feet and 263 knots true air speed and located 43 miles west of Fort Wayne, Indiana, and five miles south of Peru, Indiana, the captain noticed a shift in air pressure according to certain instrumentation, a Transponder system, that indicated to him that the hijacker had parachuted from the airplane. The jet then turned around and eventually landed in Chicago without the hijacker. 8 From June 24th through June 28th, 150 FBI agents scoured the area around Peru for the hijacker. On one of those days, a farmer near Peru found the American Airlines' mail pouch containing over $500,000 and notified the FBI. Also discovered in the same area of open fields were a .45 caliber machine gun, the parachute given to the hijacker, and clothes. 9 Operating on reliable information, the FBI continued its search in Wyandotte, Michigan, close to Detroit and the home of the defendant. On June 28th at about 11:00 to 11:30 p. m., the defendant was arrested in front of his home in Wyandotte. Agents, according to their testimony, surrounded the defendant's home and entered it at 2:45 p. m. on June 29th after a search warrant had been issued. They further testified at a hearing on a motion to suppress evidence that no one entered the home before 2:45 p. m. on June 29th, that lights inside the home did turn off once during the night before the search, and that a timing device that turns off lights automatically was found on the premises during the search. One neighbor testified that someone was inside the house during the early morning of June 29th, and another neighbor testified that the lights inside the house flickered off and on several times during the night. During the search, the agents found certain books and charts connected with aviation, a box of .45 caliber ammunition, a rifle stock, a metal foregrip for a .45 caliber machine gun, and a .45 caliber M-3 cartridge magazine. Over objection, these items were admitted as evidence during the defendant's trial.
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I've offended SafecrackingPLF and didn't mean to. I noticed he updated his post on layers to point out his thinking. here's mine. I was too curt before. Ckret said 2 feet of clay and sand were deposited by the dredging operation. (see old post ..really) The professor said there was a clay layer with the money on top of the clay layer. There is no evidence that the dredging operation deposited a single uniformly distributed clay/sand layer. The way sediments happen in a river, it's reasonable that it might have deposited multiple layers A clay layer. Maybe a sand layer. Maybe layers of material from wherever. My point is not to denigrate earth science. It's to denigrate assuming a geologist understood the 1974 dredging operation fully. (unless I see more data) I think of it like boring a well. When they keep a well log, you can understand the layers they went thru. If 30 years later they just tell you "we went thru 300 feet of granite/sand/clay...you can't assume it's just one uniform layer of material. See what I mean? It's not geology. It's dredging machines (or movement of dredging materials). Specifically the '74 operation if that was the only one. We don't even know, like I say if there were more, or more dumping operations. Am I being stupid? I may be. Just call me on it if so. I also apologize if my tone offends. No one liked Cooper either! Also, since what I read says most of the Columbia dredging is sand (you should see all the bazillion yards of sand dumping they've done historically when you web search!)...I figure the dredge could have done the clay layer, the sand, and the money in the sand. But Ckret's comments about the positioning of the money bundles has set me off on a new line of thinking, obviously.
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*** from Ckret: Because of the condition the money was found in it had to be all or nothing, either he lost the money bag in the jump with the money still tightly bound in it or he survived and hide the bag of money or he died with the money in the bag by his side. *** You didn't call attention to all the implications here when you posted it in the early thread, and no one really dug into what you were saying. You're saying you think the bundles of money stayed aligned because they were still "TIGHTLY BOUND IN THE BAG" (and stayed tight during any flotation) and the bag rotted away but the money didn't and so did the tight binding nylon cords. (Didn't know nylon cords rotted that fast when protected by sand :) Come clean Ckret: Aren't you trying to tell us you think the money was buried there? I'm honestly trying to find the information you say you posted before. Did I find it?
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so Ckret is comfortable with the idea that a dredge wouldn't deposit bundles of money next to each other neatly, but that random flotation would. I'm not sure why random flotation would. Is the idea that something other than rubber bands kept the money "close together"? something other than the bag. The bag wasn't found. The theory then is it rotted away around the money bundles with no trace? Any nylon rope wouldn't have rotted if the money didn't. I don't get the thrust of this "bundles were found next to each other" point is. If it tells me anything, it suggests human burial. Straighten me out. What's the theory then. Me I think of natural flotation and dredges as being almost equal. I don't see how natural flotation solves the side-by-side issue.
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just saw a news article on the web today on that. cossey kinda dismissed it? said not even close? but what is he comparing to? and expected nb-6 28 ft canopy (or 26)... he doesn't have a clue what was inside the "training" reserve. If I had a training reserve, it'd probably be the oldest chute I got. No one can exclude the training reserve can they? Or: do we know the training reserve is the same part number as the red one that the FBI has, just modified/sewn (that one's nylon I assume) Or: do we not have a clue (no records...no memory since it was sewn shut)
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hey this sounds like what we say at work Ckret when no one wants to write the current spec...we say it's all the email chain. So you're saying there was one and only one dredging operation that deposted material at the site from 1971 to 1980 and that it dredged material adjacent to the site with a bladed dredge that would destroy the money (according to the operator) Or are you saying you know they dredged that particular area in 1974 and dumped the material there, but have no idea whether there was any dumping at any other time from 1971-1980. This is a key question, because if you say you know all that, you're saying the sand covering the found money came from natural river erosion, or there was some other event (like trucking in sand) that produced the sand. Or the money was planted/buried by a human. If heavy equipment was used on the sand at some time after a predicted flotation, then I suppose the equipment could have buried it at most any depth. All these questions are answered in the chain of posts?
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This is the first time I've seen this. Can people confirm provide details? I know about McCoy. That's one. Who are the other two? Cini was the guy who had a gun and was subdued while putting on the parachute, before Cooper's stunt. He doesn't count cause he didn't jump. (He was 1971) http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/scams/DB_Cooper/9.html "Three other hijackers copied the Cini/Cooper scheme in 1972 alone. All three survived the skydive—more "proof" for those who believe Cooper lived. One was shot dead and the others captured on the ground." If this is true, then what does it mean? where they all 727 aft stair jumps? If so, it says the odds of success are pretty high? What kind of rigs did they have? Were they all experienced jumpers? What airspeeds did they jump at? (grmph..where's an FBI agent when you need one
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The Columbia River sediment may be primarily sand from what I read. There are two important points: 1) There's a lot of sand when they dredge 2) They typical redeposit upstream. This is called "beach nourishment". You want to replenish what was eroded away So money found in sand upstream from where it may have been dredged, doesn't seem crazy to me. And laughing at the notion of redepositing upstream just means we're not dredging experts. I know I'm not. If there's a report that's analyzed dredging operations of all kinds from 1971 to 1980 and said the money could only have floated there or been buried there, that's news to me and I'd like to see it. It's comical that this theory is not possible, but the Washougal theory is.
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It's easy to "pull a Cooper" and assume perfect knowledge of something. Not all dredging operations are mechanical. You don't need that if it's soft silt. We don't know what the details are for Columbia River dredging. Just as a fer-instance, here's a case where stuff is "sucked" not ground up like you imply. I'm saying there's not enough info to rule out a dredge putting the money there. I don't care about the layer analysis. It might have been imperfect or the history of dredging material depositing may have been incomplete. Maybe Ckret can provide the data to analyze from http://education.usace.army.mil/navigation/dredging.html Hopper dredges are ships with large hoppers, or containment areas, inside. Fitted with powerful pumps, the dredge suctions dredged material from the channel bottom through long intake pipes, called drag arms, and stores it in the hoppers. The water portion of the slurry is drained from the material and is discharged from the vessel during operations. When the hoppers are full, dredging stops and the ship travels to an in-water disposal site, where the dredged material is discharged through the bottom of the ship. Hopper dredges are well-suited to dredging heavy sands. They can maintain operations in relatively rough seas and because they are mobile, they can be used in high traffic areas. They are often used at ocean entrances, but cannot be used in confined or shallow areas. Hopper dredges can move quickly to disposal sites under their own power, but since the dredging stops during the transit to and from the disposal area, the operation loses efficiency if the haul distance is far.