Ckret

Tosaw was agent for five years, he left the Bureau in 1956. His description of what happened that night is much more detailed from what I have provided because he made it up. Don't mistake what i am saying here, I think he made an honest attempt to investigate the case but he was also writing a book. By the early 80's most of the foundational details he writes in his book had been released to the public, or, given his connections, nothing he could not have gleaned from taking an agent out for a few. Take it for what it is, it's just another piece of the puzzle. I can tell you this from what I have read of Snowmmans post, when Tosaw goes into "new" details, I cannot confirm what he is saying because that is not what the witnesses provided to the FBI. It is human nature to complete the picture, if you are given A and C, you will create B. I think to a large degree Tosaw put the "B" in DB.

Thats right, I forgot that was you, great job helping with that, thanks for your input.

Mr Nuke, or should I say record straighter outer, Thanks for setting Snowmman straight, he is an amazing resource, but every now and then you have to let him know he is not Google.

The make shift waist container was the belly chute he cut open, this is not new.

In reference to this ship needing a rudder, I think that question has been answered. Who has built a web site, who has had fights with his wife over Cooper (Slugster, you're not the only one), Its Sluggo. Sluggo, you are on your way to being the worlds expert on Cooper. With the support of folks like Snowmman, Georger, 377 and SafeCrack (where the hell is he) how could you miss. Keep at it and don't get so discouraged, I will continue to provide you with info as you build your data base. Just understand (as for the rest of you) if i am not responsive it is because I am away on other matters.

Someone asked about the found shoe, I cannot find reference to it anywhere in the case file. That would have been a major find, considering there is nothing on it I am calling myth.

Slugster, I consider you my co-case agent and to have you come up with IPIN is somewhat lacking. I am known worldwide for bank robber nicknames (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003168951_nicknames02m.html) as such you must come up with something that has more "POP" than IPIN. I think it's a good idea, lots of running room here, but we have to come up with somthing that catches the eye of pop culture. So, DZ folks, lets come up with an acronym for our "big toe" Sluggo (I love that movie).

Two front chutes and two back chutes were Coopers words to Schaffner

The logs posted were transcribed from tapes, the only log not transcribed is the TTY log.

Reasonable doubt, proof beyond reasonable doubt. For some the sun will not rise in the morning. Reasonably you can state if your in good condition and not going skydiving you most likely will see the sunrise in the morning. Then there are those times when a tree falls on your house and hits you while your sitting on the couch watching "Point Break" for the 300 time. You can't remove all doubt.

Mr Nuke, From reading the reports in the file the placard was found in this general area, I have not located the Sheriff's Office report on the matter so I don't have the exact location. Keep in mind the airstairs where released just a few minutes out of Seatac, so they would have been open about 20 degrees the whole flight.

Snowmman, The money find changed the flight path, not (as you call him) Agent H. Each time a piece of information or evidence surfaces that may point in a different direction you must take a look at from a fresh perspective. Hopefully it completes your investigattive theory, if not you have to look at the facts with the new info added in and see where it takes you. Welcome back OrangeQuote

Thanks Snowmman, I knew you would support my theory 100%, thats why I feed you information, oh wait thats Safecrack, no I mean Sluggo, oh hell, I don't know who I mean.

I don't think your missing anything, either its possible or not that the money could get to Tina's Bar by natural means. Using the flight path and several drift possibilities (open high, open low, no opening, money stays him and rots off, money gets torn off upon jumping) my hope is that a point can be determined along the flight path where things line up. If they dont, then we have to explore other possibilities.

I am not focused on any tributary yet, I want a hydrologist to look at the flight path, review the fine work you folks have done, review the hydrological history of the area and see if any possibilities exist.

In regard to the bag and it's trip down the Columbia i think we are focusing on it from the wrong view. It seems as if folks are trying to envision the bag as making this trip on it's own through tributaries out into the Columbia and to Tina's/Tena's Bar. when things come out of tributaries they do so as "snags." Things collect and eventually have enough mass to be forced out of the tributary. The bag was probably no different, it got caught up in a snag and when the snag became large enough it was pushed out into the Columbia. The bag didn't sink or float by itself, it drifted to Tina's Bar with the snag. It lands at the beach, the action of the mass hitting land rips the bag, a few bundles fall out, the snag and bag continue on its journey.

Good work all on the hydrology effort. I need to get a handle on how Cooper tied off the bag, so I thought I 'd toss out a challenge. We know the bag was a standard bank bag, I think they come in small, med and large, I am assuming he had a large bag. Because of the money find, the neck of the bag must have been secured independently from the line used to secure the bag to himself. If not, when the bag separated from Cooper the line securing the neck of the bag would have come loose and the money would have spilled out. So in my mined Cooper used one section of line to wrap around the neck of the bag and tied it off. He used the other section of line to wrap up the bag and form a loop with what was remaining, this according to the witness. Cooper is now out of line, he only cut two sections I can't remember what I posted but it was either 14'2" and 14'3' or 15'2" and 15'3" (I'll have to find the post to be sure). So according to the witness Cooper had to have clipped the loop into the harness. I think i have some shows lined up that are willing to investigate the case and i want to recreate the jump. This is an important part to test if the bag was ripped away upon leaving the aircraft. So lets put our heads together and come up with our best guess as to how Cooper tied the bag. Or do you think I have pretty much figured it. if so, no need to put much more into it.

When I talked to Brian he said the money was found in an area he could tell at some recent point had been covered by water. He said all of the debris was swept into one area, which is where he found the money.

No soils to my knowledge were saved. As far as a hydrologist goes I still need one, do any of you know one? Orientation of the bundles? If that is your question then the answer to that is they were found together. If the bag broke open prior to its arrival at Tena's Bar there is no way the bundles would have arrived at the same spot, at the same time, resting together until discovery. From this we know that if the money arrived there by natural means then it had to all be in the bag. The only other explanation is that someone placed it there and there is nothing to support that theory. The 1974 dredging operation precludes the theory that Cooper landed in the area of Tena's Bar and buried the money. This then precludes any logical argument for it being placed there at the hands of someone. In fact, in order to advance that theory you would have to create or manufacture a piece of the puzzle to make a fit. Creating your own evidence to make your story work may be fun and does have a place in exploring possibilities, but in the end facts have to rule the day. How do the facts of the case logically support theory? This is how you solve crime, the other way is how you write fiction. By the way, Sluggo and I are on the same page with regard to the Cooper Caper, I don't know why some are eluding to the fact that we aren't. Thats why I feed him information.

I was reading up on the sketches today, it was just a summary, I'll have to find the file to get more detail. Basically, Schaffner looked at the first sketch and did not think it was a quality depiction, she suggested several changes. Mucklow and Hancock felt the first draft sketch did resemble Cooper but each suggested several changes. The changes were made and all three agreed the final sketch looked like Cooper. I think when you weigh each person's words it comes down to tolerances. Each changed the first draft, so each found that the draft was lacking. Perhaps Schaffner's tolerance for detail is more exacting than Mucklow and Hancock. So it's not that the sketches are so far off or people's memories of Cooper are way off. In fact, Schaffner didn't factually change the sketch, she just sharpened it, as did Mucklow and Hancock.

There is nothing that points to the money arriving at it's location by hand. If it did not get there by human hands then it had to get there by natural means. From the condition and position of the found money, we know it had to have been protected and all together upon beaching at Tena's Bar. That means the money stayed in the bag, which we then can conclude Cooper lost it upon jumping or landing or walking through the woods. Having forwarded this idea I am always open to new evidence. I want to solve this case, so at some point I have to move forward. The above theory fits the best so I have to go with.

In reference to McCoy, everyone associated with him, family, babysitter and friend from school, put McCoy in Provo for Thanksgiving dinner. If more than you know your secret, it's going to get out. People who don't have a vested relationship with McCoy would not lie for him, so their statements seem valid. He also does not match the physical description of Cooper. Because of the money find we know Cooper lost all of it in the jump. So going to Vegas to launder the stolen cash is out. There's more but it's boring so I won't waste your time.

In regard to the various logs that are out there, I think it would be a mistake to take any of them on face value, especially those dealing with Cooper and his demands. All communication came through Mucklow, to the cockpit, to flight ops. No doubt each took their turn to apply their understanding as to what was communicated. When you overlay the interviews with the logs things begin to clear. Cooper did not originally request the airstairs be extended in flight, he requested that after his demand that they be extended at takeoff. Just my little take on it but feel free to formulate what you will.

I would suggest you not do that. SLUGGOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Some lead some wallow, as for your time left, who knows, I hear there are some really good vitamins out now days