Ckret

Tina did not take any dictation from Cooper, Schaffner did. Schaffner listed in her statement what Cooper's demands were.

I'll bite. He was familiar with the NW+CA, because of living in various states there, at various times. Oregon was the one NW area state Cooper had never been a local in. Seattle/Issaquah was the best place to get parachutes and money from. Cooper was a Seattle area local for a time. Whether Cooper thought that would confuse the issue or not, doesn't matter. He was familiar with jumping that area. It made night jumping that area feel a little less risky. (edit) If it was a Clancy novel, I'd add "He knew it would clusterfuck the two local FBI offices against each other ...portland vs seattle." But that wouldn't be possible because he wouldn't have enough inside knowledge. It would just be a good guess. Every hijacking that took flight involved two or more FBI offices, we solved over 99% of them, tell Tom no clusters.

Excuse me - You posted that BEFORE the night clerk walked into the FBI office with a signed statement. Did you look for ANY hotel registrations and check the reports made by the agents assigned to checking those hotels?...probably NOT. Your statement makes a mockery out of the investigative system. If you can dismiss this so easlly then this statement could also be made: If Ckret says he has searched the files and because he says so the registration nor any reports made by the agents regarding the hotel assignments do not exist, therefore if the records nor registration does not exist then no agents where assigned to investigate the PDX area Cooper departed from. We ALL know that they did send agents out to check the hotels and if they didn't then NO hijacking occurred. I will address this one simple question again - WHY did Cooper choose the Portland and Seattle area? Being local is illogical - he woud be known. He knew the area - HOW? Too many knobs - what is simple has been complicated...... Who said I dismissed it? Also, I look for a registration that was recovered where John Collins was listed on it, I cannot find any and further more no leads were ever developed in regard to a John Collins until you brought it up. To address another issue you brought up, we did investigate where and when Duane stole John Collins identity, as well as all other aspects of his life that you bring up.

"I fall on the bottom of the intellectual scale here and Night Clerk is doing well. I am having a hard time holding on to the bit and reins. If Carr doesn't do something soon I think Night Clerk will come thru the gate without waiting for the buzzard..oops I think that is supposed to be spelled differently. On a serious NOTE. The night clerk wants to go public, but I am the one saying NOT yet...let the FBI do what they have to do. Since Carr made his narrow minded statement about me - this indicates the FBI is NOT searching their records for the registration." Reply: I have already posted that I cannot find a registration with John Collins name on it. For the sake of argument let’s say that there was a registration with the name John Collins on it and the clerk says that John Collins looks like the picture of Duane Weber and he believes Duane Weber looks like Cooper. OK, now what? That would be great info to confront Weber with but that is not a possibility.

Creepy Uncle Sluggo is back!!!!! I am glad you brought that up, ever play that game where you whisper a statement to someone and then they pass it along and then that someone passes what they hear along............ by the time it gets through 10 people what comes out the other end is not the original message. I believe this is what is at play here with a few issues. Cooper makes demands with no real specifics to people who operate with specifics. I wrote about this some time ago; when you fly the 727 with wheels down at 10,000 feet what are the flap options? My guess is 15 degrees is the most optimal setting, so when the pilot radioed the demands he simply added the “15 degrees.” I am sure to the pilot “flaps down” means nothing; especially when the pilot is communicating with others who speak his professional language. If the pilot said to flight ops “flaps down” well what does that mean? So given the parameters Cooper gave the pilot overlaid his knowledge so that it meant something, “15 degrees” The same can be said about the pilots stating “chest” chute versus “front” chute. The pilots must have at some point had some type of instruction or knowledge transfer in regard to jumping and the equipment used to do it. So again front chute did not mean anything to the pilots but chest did. So when communicating to others that speak your language you will translate the meaning so that they understand.

Interesting thoughts, georger. But Cooper had limited knobs to turn. One could theorize, that he saw how prior hijackers tried to create new knobs, say with guns, weapons etc and failed. So he knew not to try that. Sometimes the only knobs that work are very small ones, and time. The mistake is in judging Cooper by the knobs he used. It assumes other knobs could have been more successful. All we know, is that the knobs Cooper used, worked. Therefore, Cooper was right. We know hijackers who attempted to use/create other knobs failed. One could say we don't really know if Cooper succeeded. But unlike others, we're unsure if he failed. Is the experimental database broad enough to deduce anything from that? No. But that's life. So no use worrying about it. I posted before, that Google is showing that potentially we don't need models any more. Models are always right to a degree but always wrong to a degree. Sometimes I wonder if you worry more about the model, than the result. Things like Google are creating the opportunity to say: "no models, just correlations" No model can predict the future. If it could, people will change the future so it's not predictable. We only use models cause we didn't have anything else. It's getting close to the time to throw out models. They serve no purpose except to wrongly put a stamp of validation on bad thinking. So while your thought above sounds good, it's better just to say "Who knows, doesn't matter" Coopers choice of knobs were in large part only limited by his knowledge base and skillset. The choices he made provide some insight as to who he was. There were many options (knobs) for Cooper that night, yet he gave very little direction for what is in some ways a very complex situation. That may say a lot even though he said very little.

Cooper's flaps, altitude and speed requests (if accurately reported) argue against a couple of the alternatives above. They say Cooper knows something about planes. They hint Cooper knew about dropping stuff from planes. 377 Cooper never requested a speed or degree of flap setting.

whatever. Why are you making excuses for how little we know? No matter what, there has to be some consensus truth that we say is "The Note". All we have is a casual comment from Ckret on the text. I had other questions. Sluggo noted that the stew notes describe the original note slightly differently. So all I'm saying, is that Ckret could tell us more about the testimony about the note. Maybe the interview didn't cover more detail. I don't know. That's all I'm saying. Anyone who says they know more than Ckret's casual post on the text of the note, would be interesting to hear from. (edit) For background on uncertainty even around the text: Per Crew Notes #2: Miss - I have a bomb in my briefcase. I want you to sit next to me. I posted exactly what Schaffner said the note said, she is the one who received the note from Cooper. I also posted exactly what she said Cooper dictated to her. Whether that is exactly what Cooper wrote and said I don't know, I was not there. I believe they are exacting, Schaffner wrote notes and kept a running log of what happened as it was happening. In regard to handwriting samples, I have several hand written letters from Duane to his mother. Speaking of that, there was a comprehensive investigation into Duane’s life, from his teen years through his death. We tried very hard to link Weber to the Cooper case, we put a large amount of effort into the investigation. From our Seattle office to the Jacksonville office to our lab in Quantico and a few in between. We interviewed family members, colleted evidence and documents outlining his life; civilian and military. I have the file at my desk; from that investigation no leads were developed that could be followed linking Weber to the Cooper case. Keep in mind this is not a member of the a victims family seeking justice or a family member seeking justice from a wrongful conviction. This is someone wanting to find justice by having her husband named as a hijacker and after a comprehensive investigation the FBI’s refusal to do so. That ranks very low on the “seeking justice” scale and my efforts to help. That is why I have encouraged those wanting further review to seek a private investigator. My mind is not closed, I just need evidence, not stories that have no investigative avenue. No one is hiding anything and if a private investigator, or anyone, was able to come up with something that could link Weber to Cooper (and we could prove it) so be it; case solved.

Orange, The tie is a "skinny" black tie with no markings that could ID it to any one individual. I am sure millions, as in the many plural form, had one just like it in 1971. And the tie clip is a clasp, not the “stick pin” type. There are no markings on any of it that some one could look at the two items and say, “Those belong to..........” Hope that helps

(okay I had a heart and didn't include his phone number) Another example of his "deep" thinking. He sounds more interested in getting a cutesy story than anything else... Like duh, like we don't know who wrote the Dan Cooper stuff. I don’t want to speak for Geoff, but he was lurking here at my advise for research. So much good work was/is being done that I did not want him to miss it.

None of the prints lifted in the original sweep of the plane were of value. When it was discovered that none of the lifts could be used, agents were asked to go back on the plane and try again. The prints recovered that are of value came from a magazine found in the row of seats Cooper was sitting. Fast forward to 37 years; I cannot find any reference to Cooper reading a magazine. Agents did the best they could with what they had at the time. Whether that effort recovered Cooper’s prints I don’t know, but (Buzzard) if you send me the originals instead of copies I’ll run the comparisons. As far as “buddies” go on this thread, I can tell you this, no one gives me passage here. I think it may have more to do with you having just joined the conversation in October, having 6 post and taking me to task without provocation. But then again I suspect we go back a ways, don’t we. Regardless, apology accepted; you seem to have much to say, I look forward to your contribution. PS Orlando

Tom: I hope you don’t have too many skeletons in the closet, Snowmman is about to tell the world your life story. Great job on the story, you represented the project very well, I had no doubts.

Thanks to Georger, Sluggo and the rest of you citizen sleuths.

Well Buzzard, lets see, the investigative strategy from the beginning of my effort has been to get as much factual info to the public as possible. The belief is that if the public has the right info new leads may develop. The best way to accomplish this is to use conduits capable of reaching as many people as possible. In this day and age that would be the media and internet. To that end, I wish the History Channel would do something on Cooper. As for your blurb about, “doing it on company time” I do believe I am the case agent. If the investigative strategy is to openly communicate to folks on the web and through the media when do you propose I do it. So you can rest a bit easy, the majority of my posting and surfing of this site and others about Cooper happens before or after work, or like now while on vacation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VY6jzgWJ7c&NR=1 This one is good, by the way the party is tonight if anyone can make it Aerial

. Yay! Do we have lift-off? Ckret, would there be some record of who the agents were who interviewed him originally? (Just trying to square his statement about the register with you having said you couldn't find a record of it being taken). Reply Here's the issue i have with it. In the months after the hijacking there was no bigger criminal case in the Bureau. Every agent in the Northwest was helping run down leads, no stone was left unturned. If a clerk had stated to agents that a man named John Collins checked into a motel the night before the crime and he looked like the hijacker, there would have been a massive effort to vett that out. Nothing in the files mention a John Collins until Jo steps into the picture in the late 90's. I just find that odd, not saying that it did not happen and i am just missing it somehow, just doubtful; but that's my job. I will look a bit further to confirm my suspicions

And now the night clerk, Yes a gentleman has come forward and I interviewed him, he seemed sincere and well intentioned. He essentially said to me exactly what Jo has said: According to this individual, on Nov 23rd 1971, a John Collins checked into the motel where he was working as a night clerk. A few days later FBI agents arrived with the sketch of Dan Cooper and interviewed him. He said the sketch looked like a man named John Collins who registered on the 23rd. He said the agents took the register. At some point much later he was shown a picture of Duane Weber and feels the picture of Weber looks like the sketch, which looks like the John Collins he remembers checking into the motel. I interviewed him via phone; he turned in his statement to our Portland office so I have not seen the written version yet.

Could this really be an odd time to go on vacation? In America, is this not the busiest time of year for travel? This is after all the Thanksgiving season. As for Dan Cooper comic books in a US prison, no way. To my knowledge they were not sold in the United States. They were written only in French and sold through a French company. It was a very small circulation. Unless you were a collector, you would have had to been able to read French to want the comic. Unless you just wanted to look at the pretty pictures.

hmmm... when one of you is in a playful mood, kindly go hijack an aeroplane (any old plane will do, seeing as you will not get to jump it). please insist that the ransom is delivered by Agent Carr in his underwear, with streaming to Youtube . When you get sent to jail, i will arrange for a subscription in your name to russian brides/asian brides/whatever brides you may be interested in I could not imagine the grief I would take from those I work with if something like that should ever happen. As it is now everytime something hits the news with this case or bank robbery they get a few days out of it and thats with a suit on.

I don't think you're an ass, I just think, as we all need to at times, you need to step away from the computer for ten minutes before sending some of you're posts. It's not the content, the content is awsome. It's not whether you agree or disagree, I'd rather you disagree, it's the tone.

KHAAAANNNN!!! I think it is the only logical conclusion one can make. He grabbed the NB6 because it is what he knew. When he realized there were no D rings, he clipped the belly reserve to the webbing because it was his only choice. There was no need to dismantle the second belly reserve for parts, he already had one open and cut apart. He already had tied off the money bag, so the money was secured and ready to go. The only use of the extra reserve had to be for its intended purpose. When he realized his only choice was the webbing that’s what he did.

And yet another point as to why Cooper was a novice at best. Cooper made no demand in regard to denominations. Your right, my "maker-of-small-pieces" friend, weight is very important in regard to load and rate of descent. Anyone with knowledge would have most likely asked for hundreds, decreasing weight (from approximately 20 lbs to 4 lbs) and size dramatically. In fact, if he had asked for hundreds it would have all fit in the reserve container which he could have securely clipped to the webbing of the NB6 harness

There are certain attributes associated with decay, or its nicer cousin aging, that all humans experience in common. Therefore, we all have a common understanding of what it means when a witness states, “the person appeared to be in his 20’s.” Without going into specifics with the witness, a sketch artist is trained on what those are; as well as 30’s 40’s 50’s and so on. The artist will automatically add those components to the sketch because they are generally the same for everyone, wrinkles, sags, thin lips, droopy or heavy eyelids…. Also the same for every one is placement of parts, two eyes where eyes go, a nose where the nose goes and so on. The details that are different in everyone are (macro) female or male and (micro) symmetry, color and size of parts. So a large portion of the data is given in just stating male or female and age, from there the focus narrows. A rough sketch is developed and then shown to the witness who refines it until they feel the subject depicted in the sketch is the subject they saw or witnessed doing said crime. In a case like Cooper, where you have more than one witness it comes down to weight and majority rules. If you have four witnesses and three agree on the sketch and one doesn’t; and the three that agree had the best view, then you go with the one that has the most agreement.

"Ckret always went on about the money, but I think that was secondary. I think the grudge was primary." reply You write it in past tense, I still go on and on about the money. If Cooper did this and his primary focus was a grudge it wasn’t much of one. If someone puts their life on the line to make a point they at least make one. Cooper never made his point; he never brought to light what it was he was so angry about. So then you have to default to the money making the point for him. Well, that was not much of a point if it was solely a grudge. $200,000 to Northwest was not gong to be a blip on their radar. So if it was a grudge, then Cooper was not just an idiot, he was a flaming idiot. Boy howdy that was fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"The (I think second?) Dan Cooper comic book that was released in 1971. Amongst my crazy theories was whether Cooper might have seen it on a newsrack or something at the last minute, triggering a memory from his past. The title of the '71 #17 comic was "S.O.S. dans l'Espace"" reply: I think the comic is a great find and has several possibilities. I will be highlighting it as part of "new" evidence in the case. I think it can be used to narrow the pool of possible "Coopers" Not saying Cooper got the idea from the comic series but that he may have been a fan or collector. His exposure was in a small area of Europe or Quebec. So now one of the theories; we are looking for a male 6’, brown eyes, dark complexion, dark hair, would have been in late 40’s to early 50 in 71, no distinguishing accent, possibly served in the military as part of a flight crew and collected or read Dan Cooper comic books. If I put that out to the media maybe a new lead develops or at least makes enough of a buzz that someone who knows something comes forward.