SivaGanesha

I think there are a couple of points to make here. One is that there is a huge leap, in terms of the level of responsibility required, in going from tandem to AFF-1. Very little is expected of the tandem student other than to be a good passenger. But immediately, with AFF-1, much more is expected. The student has primary responsibility for deploying their main, the student usually has sole responsibility for the cutaway and deploying their reserve, and the student must fly a safe pattern, approach, flare, and landing. There doesn't appear to be anywhere else in a skydiver's progression where there is as huge an increase in responsibility from one jump to the next as between tandem and AFF-1 (except maybe someone's first BASE jump, but that is usually years later). Yes, at some point the instructors let go of the student for the first time, but they will only do so if they are comfortable having jumped several times with the student before, and they will still keep close by to be able to re-dock quickly if necessary, etc. In other words, after AFF-1, progression in skydiving is very gradual and the student can proceed at their own pace. But there is a huge leap from tandem to AFF-1. So if the student cannot make that transition safely, there may be no choice but to limit them to tandems. However, it seems that after the student does the introductory AFF jumps safely, there should be no reason to ever tell them to quit. It is up to the student to decide if their progression is taking too long to be worth it. The instructors' job is to provide feedback and not allow the students to progress faster than they are ready. I don't understand why one would say that it would take so long that it would not be worth it. It is the student who is investing their time and money--the instructors are generally being paid for their time and if the student is comfortable with a slower pace, I'm not sure why that would be an issue for the instructors provided the student has shown they can do the introductory AFF jumps safely. It is a somewhat different issue if someone has been cleared off student status--which presumably implies they know how to do a safe skydive--but continues to perform actions that they should know better than to do. At some point they may need to be grounded. "It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

When I was doing my student freefall progression in the 1980's (under the static line system), there was a fellow student at about the same point in his training, also doing freefalls. He had a malfunction and seemed to freeze, and simply waited until his AAD fired, which fortunately it did. After the jump he seemed rather unaware of what had happened and seemed at a loss to explain what had transpired on the jump or the reasons for his inaction. Although I wasn't an instructor--then or now--I was a peer and therefore certainly watched closely what was happening with other students at a similar point. I remember thinking, after this jump, that he might kill himself and was rather mortified when he continued jumping. Imagine my surprise, then, when I logged on to these forums for the first time a few days ago and discovered (without naming names) that this person now has over 11,000 jumps and is considered one of the best skydivers in the world. Again, I'm a student myself--not an instructor--so my ability to evaluate these things is limited but it seems to me that it just goes to show you it is very hard to evaluate how someone will turn out based on a scary performance on an early jump. "It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

David, Why are you asking a forum this question? Obviously my primary point of contact for questions is the instructors who were with me in the air and/or will be with me in the air on future jumps. However, sometimes a couple of days after a jump, questions will spring to mind that I didn't think to ask during the post-jump debriefing. This is one such case. The instructors aren't available during the week. Feedback obtained on here during the week must still be validated with the instructors before I jump again on the weekend, but it helps to keep me focused and to know the right questions to ask when I return to the DZ on the weekend--so I can make best use of my time and the instructors' time at the DZ during the weekend. "It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

What they said was to deploy if I lose BOTH instructors. If I lose ONE instructor, then they said "the other will re-dock soon so continue with the dive flow". My confusion was that part of the planned dive flow required visually checking with BOTH instructors to get their instructions (thumbs up, arch, etc). Since I couldn't do that until the absent instructor re-docked I decided to wait until he did so. "It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

I'd say he was gone for about half the freefall. After finishing my PP's and second COA--and ready to begin my turns--I was right at 7000 feet. I have since learned that 7000 feet is the threshold for starting the turns--below 7000 feet one doesn't attempt the turns; but above 7000 feet one should try them, all the while remaining altitude aware. So I was very close to being able to do them and I'm sure it will be easy if I don't lose all that time again on the next jump. "It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

Do two DZ's at the same airport count as two or one? If so then it is four for me despite my low number of jumps: SWOOP, Grand Bend Airport (at the time), Ontario, Canada Grand Bend Sport Parachuting Centre, Grand Bend Airport, Ontario, Canada Sky's the Limit, Orange County Airport (at the time), NY, USA Skydance Skydiving, Yolo County Airport, CA, USA David "It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts regarding how to approach AFF training. Here is my background. I'm 41 years old--I have a total of 85 jumps but most of them were many years ago in Canada. Most of my jumps were between 1983-1986--I made my first jump on May 28, 1983 at the age of 17. I was trained on the old static line system using mostly round canopies, so progress was rather slow. However, after about 50 jumps, I did complete the requirements for a CSPA (Canadian Sport Parachuting Association) A license. Unfortunately I am not in a position where I can document any of that history. I never sent in the paperwork to CSPA to actually get the license, and in one of my many moves, I misplaced my logbook. I simply drifted away from the sport but now I sure wish I'd completed the paperwork since it would serve to document my history even if I'm not current. I now live in the United States. In 1999, I made two jumps--a tandem and an AFF 1--which I do have logged in a new logbook. Recently I've been feeling a strong pull to complete the AFF training. My sense has been that I should essentially start from scratch with the AFF program--so I guess my first question would be whether others might agree with that decision. It seems there are several good reasons for this. One is that I can't document most of my past history. Plus I never did have that many jumps, and what I did have was a LONG time ago, and I was trained on the static line system--meaning that there are probably things about freefall that I never learned that everyone learns now. My second question concerns specific recent jumps. I did an AFF Cat A jump about 10 days ago at Skydance Skydiving in Davis, CA. It went fine and I moved on to AFF Cat B. The AFF Cat B jump didn't go quite as well and I need to repeat the level. One of the instructors let go of me (unintentionally) and I decided to wait until he caught up before beginning the planned events on the dive. Unfortunately, what this meant was that there was enough time for the practice pulls, COA, etc., but no time for turns before I had to lock on, wave off, and pull. So they want me to do the jump again and get the turns right. So I'm wondering whether--if an instructor lets go unintentionally--whether I should just continue with the planned sequence of events with just the one instructor. I am very confident in my ability to do everything that is being asked of me so far because it is all stuff I did many years ago in qualifying for my A. Any thoughts how I should handle this? I feel like I lost a dive because of the instructor letting go even though it is all stuff I already know. I am going to try my Cat B jump again this weekend. Thanks for any ideas you might have! David "It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014