Butters

I am not trying to judge anyones actions or call anyone selfish. (Not intention of this post.) The question regarding legal consequences was based on two events: 1) An incident report in which a jumper was injured when his reserve pilot chute became free in the A/C and other jumpers threw out the pilot chute and jumper (I know that the proper action would have been for the jumper to exit the plane on his own but in these situations he may not have even noticed and thus the other jumpers took what they determined was proper action). In this situation I would hate for anyone to have to deal with legal situations when doing what was determined in a minimal amount of time to be best for everyone (inlcuding the jumper). 2) Reading about people jumping on and or knocking people out the door. In this case there is no danger and the action could be seen as negligent. I'm not saying these people should face legal consequences, nor am I saying I would press the legal action if in a situation. I am just wondering what the law states. "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

Watch again. Look at his face when he finally pulls the cutaway handle. He appears to have a large smile. (Must have been so pleased with himself.) To bad they don't have tests to determine if you are a "Lutz". "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

I was reading an incident report regarding an open pilot chute in the A/C and the actions of the occupants and had these questions: 1) If jumpers push someone from the airplane and that person dies or is injured can the people who pushed the jumper face legal consequences? REMOVE QUESTION FOR POLL: Was based on ethics in other hobbies (mountaineering) and appears to be to general for skydiving. To clarify: All for One: Everyone goes down if one goes down. One for All: One goes down so everyone doesn't go down. "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

There are many variables but I agree with: You won't live without one, you may live with one. I am assuming (please correct me if wrong) that a parachute with breaks stowed (is this the proper term) will have a slower descent rate than a parachute with breaks released. Another student who jumped during my first AFF jump landed with his breaks released and without flaring and was uninjured so I believe someone landing under a reserve with breaks stowed would most likely survive (need to take into account wind, wing loading, landing area and obstacles, and many other factors though). * Most student main canopy wing loadings are lower than advanced reserve canopy wing loadings from jumpers I have questioned. "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

If everyone has almost the same category skydives then I have to tell you it gets better in C skydive when they let you go and even better in D skydive when they let you go and you do turns and forward motion (I can't wait for E skydive where we do frontloops, backloops, barrel rolls, and tracking.) I still hate the plane ride up but once I'm in the door I can't wait to jump out like you. Right now the skydive doesn't make me nervous, doing what I am suppose to do and doing it well makes me nervous (I can't afford to repeat). I can't wait for my first solo jump where I'm going to toss myself out of the plane and just skydive belly to earth enjoying doing nothing. Do you get the shakes when gearing up, jumping, or after landing? I seem to get that feeling of overwhelming energy when putting on gear, nothing but calm when jumping, and then get the slight shakes after landing. Makes the whole skydive that much more fun. "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

As another new skydiver I can only guess but ... Pay? How many professional skydivers have you heard of? I'm guessing not many if any. So probably not much. Most skydivers I have talked to spend all their money on skydiving. "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

I am a very peaceful and passive person. Some people have told me that I must be bottling up my anger and thus have anger management issues. I tell them that bottling my anger is a way of managing it. This way when I really should be angry I'll have alot of it around. That sounds like a logical way of managing anger to me. Tell them that you are managing your anger, you wanted to stab the man numerous times but restrained yourself and simply verbally assaulted him (the physical contact was not meant as an assualt but to remove him from your personal space that he was trespassing). Make sure you say this with an innocent smile that gives the impression that you are very proud of yourself in dealing with your anger correctly. If he continues to ask about your past then begin to give accurate accounts in chronological order of each instance where your coworkers have made you angry until he realizes he too would have been angry. If this doesn't work then begin doing things to make him angry and when he becomes angry say to him in a calm voice that he should seek anger management classes. "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

You know you are a skydiver when ... you look at the sky and it seems normal that the first thing that you think of is an airplane with people jumping out of it. (Trust me, some people may think of an airplane but I have found that very few think of people jumping out of it.) "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

Before this goes any farther I'll just say this. I was not commenting about safety. I know your life and other peoples lives are on the line and safety is a key concern. I was commenting on the general lack of social and instructional skills some people have and the fact that those people should not be instructors. I didn't find it appropriate for my instructor to ask me questions and then make me feel stupid if I didn't give the right answer (for stuff I hadn't been taught yet) or make me feel stupid for asking questions that my instructor believed were common sense. The F**k that was in reference to the instructor who could have simply given some constructive criticism and instead chose to give there student a look that was interpreated as "Maybe he just hates me?" by the student. It may be overly harsh but ... PS: I only jumped once that day even though I was successful on my jump because I didn't feel like taking another lesson with the instructor or jumping again with them (and this is coming from someone who can't stop thinking about skydiving). "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

perhaps you are in a wrong sport? No, this sport fits me just fine. I was only trying to say that instructors should be patient and realize that students are in a new environment and it is best to give constructive criticism and advice, not to be demeaning to the student. The post reminded me of my last jump in which one of the instructors constantly gave me a blank stare and then just turned away when I asked questions or was relaxing and joking with my other instructor. "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

In short I'll just say this as another student. F**k that instructor. I have one instructor who has taught me what I need to know for the jumps, has answered any questions I have without ever making me feel dumb, and has made the jumps safe and fun. I recently had another instructor who was the complete opposite and although I passed the jump, I didn't have fun and did not feel good after the jump. Their job may be to teach us how not to be a danger to ourselves and others but they should remember we are paying alot of money, are the future of the sport, and if we continue will be their comrades and thus should treat us as such. PS: I don't ask questions to people that aren't already into a conversation with me and giving me advice. I just ask alot of questions once a conversation is started. "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

I try to keep my mouth shut and just watch right now. If someone begins talking to me though I begin to ask alot of questions (just my nature). Is this annoying for veteran skydivers? I know some of my questions may seem dumb but for all the veteran skydivers, please don't patronize students when they ask questions. I was asking a question before my last jump and the skydiver gave me a look and then just stood there. I do joke on the plane ride up on my jumps but only to my instructors. I like to relax and have fun before them jump. "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

I'm new to skydiving and would like to try BASE eventually. I have a question regarding a BASE logbook though. Can't this be incriminating? I've detached this into it's own thread and re-titled it. ~TA "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

I will be turning 25 at the end of this month. I find that it is best not to view what I wish I would have but what I have. Then think of what I want and what I need to do to get it. Here is the actions of most people. Think about what they want to have, do nothing, grow old, wish they had the things they wanted, think of new things they want, do nothing, grow older, wish they had the things they wanted, ... You have to break the cycle and start working now for the things you want later so later you won't be wishing you had them but actually have them. "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

You can read alot of philosophy books or simply sit down and think but it is generaly accepted that before you can come to a conclusion on any of the proposed questions you must first define the meaning of "existence". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existence However, I fear you will be hard pressed to define existence in a written or verbal language because existence is a state of being (objective) and languages are descriptions of being (subjective). "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

Mr. Freudian had a coke habit and was obsessed with his mother (amongst other things), I don't care what he would have thought of me. Sometimes you shouldn't think so deep, it is a car in the shape of a hot dog, enough said. "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

Wow, just thinking of a fully loaded Oscar Meyer Weiner Mobile pushed out of a C-130 ... everyone bails dressed as hot dogs ... just hope no one makes ketchup on the ground! "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

Since I graduated I have been picking up hobbies (motorcycling, rock climbing, and now skydiving). To afford these hobbies I don't do anything but work and hobbies. Some helpful food tips (has saved me alot): I eat bulk cereal for breakfast, peanut butter and jelly sandwiches with fruit for lunch, and ramen noodles, saltine crackers, and rice (mixed together) with a bowl of vegetables for dinner. (I don't choose flavors or brands, whatever is on sale.) Some people can't eat the same thing day in and day out (and some people say you shouldn't) so feel free to swtich it up once in a while if you need or have to. I don't question how much I spend on my hobbies but what my life would be like without my hobbies. I don't want to work all day, go home and cook dinner, sit down and watch television, and then go to bed (might as well be dead already). "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

That sounds about right for my student dives right now. I am nervous to complete everything in the dive, once finished I give my instructor the thumbs up and all of a sudden I relax and become more stable until I have to pull. I keep thinking to myself that when I can be like that for the whole dive, the whole dive will go smoother. Until then I'll just keep throwing myself at the ground and hopefully keep missing. "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

"If you can solve your problem, then what is the need of worrying? If you cannot solve it, then what is the use of worrying?" Shantideva I am also an overthinking engineer. I started with a tandem jump so that I could just enjoy the ride. I then started the AFF program and have passed Category A and B on the first try. My next jump is Category C where I will jump and fall without assistance . I am not afraid when I jump but nervous (I can't screw up because I can't afford to repeat, I know bad thinking but ...) I am also new so my advice is worth half a grain of salt. Study malfunctions, practice emergency procedures, repeat ... Study dives, practice dives, repeat ... (Use a stopwatch to give an accurate time frame of a dive, don't practice in 25 seconds what you will be doing in 55 seconds.) Then relax, watch other jumpers (this helps). It may also help as an engineer to review the statistics. (The odds are low and lower if you know what you are doing and are conservative of which most students are.) Before my jumps my AFF-I asks me what is the most important thing to remember on the jump. The answer is HAVE FUN. (Although this may not be true when it comes to safety it is meant to let you know to relax, you are suppose to enjoy the jump.) Do you do any other activities that are deemed "dangerous"? Just asking because as you get used to these "dangerous" situations the fear will subside and the fun will take over (you can lose the fear but don't get rid of the respect, gravity deserves it). "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

Thanks for the comments, helping a student learn. From the reading and research I was doing before starting the class I thought skydiving was becomming safer but now I am not sure. I'll keep reading more of these forums and try to get an even better understanding from the people that participate. The freedom felt when exiting a plane allows me to smile like a little child and at this point I am unwilling to give that up regardless of the consequences. Maybe we have reached a point where a majority of people in our society don't know what that feels like and don't want to find out. I'm off to learn some more, practice some more and make some more AFF jumps. Unrelated question: Do I owe beer the first time my instructors let me go during freefall? (Want to be prepared.) "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

Thanks for the comments. I don't want to restrict anyones rights in the name of safety. I also can not say that I will not at some point push the envelope. I just wish the media would do a better job covering skydiving accidents so as not to lead the general public to the conclusion that skydiving has not advanced in gear and safety over the years and is comparable to suicide. You are right with the USPA and gear manufactures. You can not complain about a piece of equipment to which you trust your life being expensive. (I just have student excitement and realize with my funds I can not jump as much as my heart desires.) PS: I hope I don't make a mistake and end up in the statistics. Study, practice, repeat. My first jump went perfect, I make my second and third tonight.

I didn't mean to promise safety. From my limited knowledge I know that skydiving has become safer due to advancements in gear. By giving the public the correct information they can make a more informed decision about whether to skydive or not. I still want people to make decisions knowing the risks, but I want them to be informed about the risks. After reviewing the fatality information it appears that most fatalities are not due to malfunctions (19%) and reserve complications (6%) [25%] but to possibly avoidable situations such as collisions (14%), landings (32%), and no pulls (11%) [57%]. These are possible situations for any skydiver (and any skydiver should be prepared for any situtation) but if you take proper safety precautions to avoid such situations you can help decrease your risk of fatality. I ride a motorcycle (which is more risky than skydiving) but I decrease that risk by riding no or low traffic, wearing full gear, and never drinking (if you look at the fatality statistics, these 3 things decrease my chance of being seriously injured or killed by a large percentage). Sorry about the rambling, I just think that the general public could use and update on the current state of skydiving. "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

I am just starting to skydive but have an opinion on why the sport is not growing (at least not fast). There is a limited number of people who want to skydive as a sport/hobby. Of those limited number of people only a limited number of them have the time/money. Thus you have a small number of people who have both the desire and the means necessary to skydive. So far I have observed this, the older generation have the funds to skydive but have not been informed about how much safer the sport/hobby has become (through advancements in gear) and thus don't try it. The younger generation has grown up with the X-Games and accept risk in sport/hobbies but lack the funds necessary. So maybe if the UPSA did some marketing invovling safety and found a way to get student (or younger generations) deals on gear and lessons the sport would grow faster. Anyways, in another month you should have another member if things keep going smoothly. Personally I like the small community, I have been involved in many sports/hobbies that grew and the communities that felt like families and friends disolved. "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

I am not an instructor (just started the AFF program) but I said something last weekend that made everyone laugh. As we were riding up for my first jump I told my instructors "Don't be nervous, I've practiced all week with a bed sheet from my roof" and both my instructors and the tandem jumper laughed (his passenger didn't think it was very funny though). (Yes I did bring a case of beer, the instructors liked that.) The one I liked that the instructors used was this. A girl was suiting up and her chest strap was a little loose (because we were just suiting up in the building) and she questioned them on it. They told her when we jumped that she should wrap her thumb on the inside and her fingers on the outside, pull her hands together, look down, and pray it doesn't come open. (They made the hand motion and kept straight faces like this was a normal thing to do.) I thought this was funny and laughed, she did not and looked more nervous until they tightened it for her. (I guess you have to be careful who to joke with.) To those who don't joke and keep a straight face. Isn't skydiving about smiling, laughing, having fun, and enjoying living life? "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch