luv2fly
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Everyone of those jumpers on the list we can't see anymore was special.
It's been stated before and probably will be again...The problem with the list not being available to the general public, in a fashion that makes BASE seem dangerous, is that all the "young jumpers" that are researching or on the fence - thinking about getting into BASE - whether skydivers or wanna be BASErs will not be deterred by it, scarred by it, or scared by it... These are likely the types that shouldn't be in the sport in the first place. I know a number of people that have decided to NOT get into BASE because of it's inherent danger...triggered by all the dead and permanently injured people. The BFL kept that "image" of BASE alive.
One of the major problems with human beings is that they forget easily. IMHO - In a couple years a whole slew of new jumpers will be coming on the scene - as they do - and all the ones that didn't get a chance to read the BFL will be hucking off without hesitation and there will be more injuries and fatalities because of it.
Nick, you may have been depressed by it and just about at the end of your rope...and it was your choice, but it really sucks that a few nay sayers beat you down - especially the immature one that nobody believes should be jumping anyway... -
Sucks for Jimmy Hall's friends and loved ones...never met him but sounds like a stand up guy. To those that know him...I'm deeply sorry for your loss...
As a member of the Anexx club...
Nick...if you quit the list...I would be HONERED to take it over man. I'm totally stoked that I had my years in BASE and will eventually be on that list - just like we ALL will be. I haven't picked out my picture yet though...
I used the list as an instructional tool for many of my students...and they never objected or thought it was a bad idea to read the list - it's an excellent edu tool and when me and my students would be driving to a site or hanging around...I would pull out some printed copies and we would talk about how or why each death happened - SO WE WOULD NOT REPEAT IT!!! After we would read the list...I would whip out my death videos - explaining the context, etc. Eventually I became known as the "DEATH MONGER" - which I held with pride...
See folks, I don't want to lose friends, and this is a great tool to STOP that from happening. If you are afraid of the list, don't like the list, etc...you should not BASE jump...and you should probably vote for bush...because you are acting weak and you got your blinders on.
If you don't like the list...don't read it! I think it's the best collection of memories of those that died - for edu and to pay them respect. IMHO, there are too many BASErs that are afraid of dying, afraid of the list, or don't want to talk about death - but hey folks...death is part of life! Embrace death...it's coming.
Losing friends sucks I know...but the list should stay!!!
BSBD!
JJ -
Word to the wise brother Rick! I'm not sure what your point is...but you're damn right! "They" may read us...but they will never figure us out. Even though I retired from BASE years ago...unless they BASE...they will never know what it means. It's useless man...you can't tell someone what BASE is...you have to live it!
Respect.
JJ
BASE #573 -
Ralph...in response to the following quote...
>People were Proximity flying as you call it way before sub-terminal was released
They were doing it before Rob miss judged the ledge in Norway>
I'm pretty sure you're talking about Rob Tompkins...and knowing intimately the circumstances surrounding his final jump...all I have to say is: The only thing Rob Tompkins was flying proximal to was his EGO before he POUNDED into the talus.
In 2003, Rob and I both had a summer of proximal flying from the cliffs of Norway...along with Espon, Bjorn Magna, Paul Fortune, Jeb Corliss, Yuri Kuznetsov, etc. Proximal flying has been around...it just keeps getting more and more advanced with skill and equipment improvements.
Luigi killed it on the Christ jump! If only DW would have kept flying after touching the rail at Royal Gorge...
JJ -
The truth is that I didn't review the whole thread before posting that. I know we've talked about that stuff before somewhere, but since I have to read every damn thing posted on this board, it sometimes blurs together.
Come on TOM!! Get it together. You're a man of truth! BASE jumpers across the globe hinge on your every word! Just f$#cking with you...
BR (Anne and I) considered a similar design - putting the vents on the crown of a PC - but thought it would cost way too much to manufacture - nobody would want to spend that kind of money on a PC (I guess we were wrong!)...and didn't really see a benefit to match the cost. Besides, IT COULD NEVER MATCH THE SUPERIORITY OF F111!!! Think of F111 as putting millions of tiny little vents spread evenly - the utimate material to dampen the forces that cause oscillation. How else do I say it?
Although I guess it doesn't look as cool as the Toxic...and that's what BASE is to a large part of the community - looking cool! But, being dead or injured doesn't look or feel very good now does it? But, the resulting scars could attract chicks...so what do I know?
JJ
People....listen to Uncle Potato Head...
JJ
JJ
One thing that can bring ZP up to the standard of F-111 in this regard (point of initial inflation relative to jumper/pack tray) is the direction of the jumpers pitch. If you are pitching directly upward (as popularized by DW and RS for ultra low freefalls) at exit, your ZP PC will inflate in the same position as an F-111 PC (directly over your back). The F-111 is still better "vented" (since it's essentially equally vented across it's entire surface) than the ZP, and can dampen further oscillations better, but that's not terribly important because, assuming good (symmetric) attachment, further oscillation is unlikely (and of small magnitude if it does occur).
well...go study a few thousand jumps where, regardless of pitch direction, a ZP PC - vented or not - will just randomly oscillate! It's crazy...like they have a mind of their own! Any turbulent air that hits the "bottom skin" of ZP material will cause a reaction...and roughly 3 times out of 10 it's not benefical - especially when the canopy deploys the during the oscillation - this is why sub-term and an oscillating PC can be very "counter-intention" to the direction of the opening.
Tom, as for the pie slices on a PC, I'm referring to using different material (colors) on quarters of a PC. The different quarters have differnt block and bias integrity as you say above. This difference in the quarters or "pie slice" (if this is what you mean) will cause varying levels of reaction to turbulence when it hits the "botton skin" of a PC - causing oscillation... In my experience anyway...
Good luck folks and be careful!
JJ
I've acutally moved on from BASE...but I did a lot of research in collaboration with BR (namely Annie) on the PC matter...so I can't say I've done back to back research using Toxic and non-toxic PCs. We did however toy with the idea of a wider circular vent -vent being less than 1 inch in width but about 8 inches round - but decided the benefit would not be worth the work - i.e. nobody would buy a $200 dollar pc. BUT, we came back to another idea - went retro - F111! I like to say...think of it as the most advanced PC available today - it has millions of perfectly spaced micro-scopic vents, greatly reducing the forces that cause oscillation! I would just like to add that F111 PCs are most effective on sub-term slider up jumps...
Pie slices on any PC is NOT a good idea altho it looks cewl!
And finally, yes...you can pull lower using a ZP PC>>>but only a fraction of a second - which may seem like a loooong time when you are quickly meeting the ground! Ground rush rules!!!
Be safe, be smart - jump F111!!!
JJ
Pie slices on any PC is NOT a good idea altho it looks cewl!
And finally, yes...you can pull lower using a ZP PC>>>but only a fraction of a second - which may seem like a loooong time when you are quickly meeting the ground! Ground rush rules!!!
Be safe, be smart - jump F111!!!
JJ
The micro-second longer it takes for a F111 PC to inflate is actually benefical to the jumper - because the PC will fully inflate overdead and it offers longer groundrush!!! 
Quicker inflation is actually counter productive for the jumper - i.e. it begins pulling the canopy at an unfavorable angle. And yes, using differnt halves or quarters of material for a PC (regardless of texture - ZP, F11, Balloon ZP, denim, silk, etc) will impose varying degrees of integrity and consistency and thus contribute to varying degrees of outcomes unfavorable to the user - i.e. oscillation! Although Marty makes some beautiful and elaborate BASE equipment...$175 for a PC is crazy! Unless you're jeb corliss...paying that kind of dough will take away from your precious travel funds. Is the PC encrusted with diamonds...?
JJ
Quicker inflation is actually counter productive for the jumper - i.e. it begins pulling the canopy at an unfavorable angle. And yes, using differnt halves or quarters of material for a PC (regardless of texture - ZP, F11, Balloon ZP, denim, silk, etc) will impose varying degrees of integrity and consistency and thus contribute to varying degrees of outcomes unfavorable to the user - i.e. oscillation! Although Marty makes some beautiful and elaborate BASE equipment...$175 for a PC is crazy! Unless you're jeb corliss...paying that kind of dough will take away from your precious travel funds. Is the PC encrusted with diamonds...? JJ
Ralph - Do yourself a favor...go get F111 PC's!!!
JJ
JJ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB1tEFTsC6Q
JJ
JJ
TO answer your questions BASEjumper I had about 150 jumps on a 36" F111 - mostly terminal and it still worked fine...(but I gave it to someone when I sold him a canopy - and he continued to use it - not sure how many jumps tho). I have used F111 (not clapped out) on 160' freefall jumps with no noticeable problems or differences. But yes, F111 when exposed to water and more then 100 jumps will degrade to the point where I wouldn't want to personally use one but wouldn't mind if you did...clearly for testing purposes only tho...
I would ALWAYS use F111 on sub-terminal and terminal jumps. Sometimes I used ZP on slider down mostly because I don't think in no wind conditions (what I mostly liked to jump in) there was clearly not a difference between F111 and ZP.
I can't stress this enough! Use F111 - especially for sub-terminal slider up! That is, if you want to live injury/fatality free...
Hope this helps!
JJ
I would ALWAYS use F111 on sub-terminal and terminal jumps. Sometimes I used ZP on slider down mostly because I don't think in no wind conditions (what I mostly liked to jump in) there was clearly not a difference between F111 and ZP.
I can't stress this enough! Use F111 - especially for sub-terminal slider up! That is, if you want to live injury/fatality free...
Hope this helps!
JJ
GIVE IT UP TO GOD!!!
The PC Oscillation problem must be solved to reduce the injury and death we see in BASE. I've put lots of energy into this problem. Given that I have not BASEd in 3 years 4 months..since losing my friend DW at RG in 2003. I may be off a bit in my explanation so please correct me if you see a mistake in my understanding here...but it amuses me that nothing has advanced in this area in years! And it keeps coming back as a problem...Every so often I say my .02 cents again and then it goes away until some new observation comes from someone different...
To explain where I'm coming from...I'll start at the beginning (as far as I can remember it). Anne Helliwell and Todd Shoebothom from BR were the first to introduce me to the idea of production and use of F111 PCs in BASE. I used the F111 for a couple years and later discarded it as not as "bullet proof" as ZP. I got some PC insight from SpACE whilst hanging out in Norway but still did not understand the whole concept. Then came the vented ZP and this supposedly was the "Godsend" of PC safety...and everyone tried to grab a bit of the market share of the ultimate PC - a vented ZP. BUT, I began to see this as a micromental improvement over regular ZP because the damn PC was still oscillating and killing.
It was at this point that Anne and I looked for an explanation to the problem and we searched for a solution. As soon as a ZP PC reached full bridle stretch in non-terminal jumps (mostly sub-terminal slider up), it was more likely to meet the air with a reaction to the action and begin the oscillation. We tested and researched the vented ZP PC on balloon drops with a weight to replicate a 4 second delay and the results were as expected. The vented ZP PC was a hoax...a great way to market a "revolutionary idea." But, without the desired outcome - a significant reduction in oscillation. It was only a minor one - maybe 10% - but not enough testing was done.
Anne did great camera work in Malaysia - recording more than 800 jumps made over 2 years. From this work we saw that of my 23 jumps in 2002/2003, I did not have one PC oscillation beyond about 5 degrees from center while the regular ZP PC and vented ZP PC saw about a 20% chance of severe oscillation leading to offheadings - sometimes up to 45 degrees - swirling around and around. This convinced me that F111 was the true "Godsend" - whatever that means - and ZP PCs with or without vents was a hoax.
Think of a F111 PC as a PC with thousands of vents distributed equally. That's the best way to look at it and it's truly the best way to eliminate offheading openings attributed to PC action (with current technology).
That is all. Be smart and live longer without injury - stop using a ZP PC for subterminal slider up jumping!
Good luck!
JJ
The PC Oscillation problem must be solved to reduce the injury and death we see in BASE. I've put lots of energy into this problem. Given that I have not BASEd in 3 years 4 months..since losing my friend DW at RG in 2003. I may be off a bit in my explanation so please correct me if you see a mistake in my understanding here...but it amuses me that nothing has advanced in this area in years! And it keeps coming back as a problem...Every so often I say my .02 cents again and then it goes away until some new observation comes from someone different...
To explain where I'm coming from...I'll start at the beginning (as far as I can remember it). Anne Helliwell and Todd Shoebothom from BR were the first to introduce me to the idea of production and use of F111 PCs in BASE. I used the F111 for a couple years and later discarded it as not as "bullet proof" as ZP. I got some PC insight from SpACE whilst hanging out in Norway but still did not understand the whole concept. Then came the vented ZP and this supposedly was the "Godsend" of PC safety...and everyone tried to grab a bit of the market share of the ultimate PC - a vented ZP. BUT, I began to see this as a micromental improvement over regular ZP because the damn PC was still oscillating and killing.
It was at this point that Anne and I looked for an explanation to the problem and we searched for a solution. As soon as a ZP PC reached full bridle stretch in non-terminal jumps (mostly sub-terminal slider up), it was more likely to meet the air with a reaction to the action and begin the oscillation. We tested and researched the vented ZP PC on balloon drops with a weight to replicate a 4 second delay and the results were as expected. The vented ZP PC was a hoax...a great way to market a "revolutionary idea." But, without the desired outcome - a significant reduction in oscillation. It was only a minor one - maybe 10% - but not enough testing was done.
Anne did great camera work in Malaysia - recording more than 800 jumps made over 2 years. From this work we saw that of my 23 jumps in 2002/2003, I did not have one PC oscillation beyond about 5 degrees from center while the regular ZP PC and vented ZP PC saw about a 20% chance of severe oscillation leading to offheadings - sometimes up to 45 degrees - swirling around and around. This convinced me that F111 was the true "Godsend" - whatever that means - and ZP PCs with or without vents was a hoax.
Think of a F111 PC as a PC with thousands of vents distributed equally. That's the best way to look at it and it's truly the best way to eliminate offheading openings attributed to PC action (with current technology).
That is all. Be smart and live longer without injury - stop using a ZP PC for subterminal slider up jumping!
Good luck!
JJ
yes yes and yes...
Annie H is one of the friendliest and most positive women I have ever met...and her family back in the land of the long white cloud are top notch people! Great people come from great people...
That chicken will always be one of my best friends! She looked after me for years...and that AZ trip was absolutely one for the memory banks - Mrs. Jarvis' strapping young lad... My favorite was the giant Christmas tree stack at midnight!
JJ
Annie H is one of the friendliest and most positive women I have ever met...and her family back in the land of the long white cloud are top notch people! Great people come from great people...
That chicken will always be one of my best friends! She looked after me for years...and that AZ trip was absolutely one for the memory banks - Mrs. Jarvis' strapping young lad... My favorite was the giant Christmas tree stack at midnight!
JJ
>I was just wondering how many idiots out there are base jumping but now nothing about ther canopies or anything related to this sport like say how to land or fly your tarp
If your flying a tarp then you know nothing...is it made of latex or cornsilk?
>because the more I read the crap here the more I say to my self. I'm willing to bet we hit at least 15 fatalites next year.
15 is most likely an understatement...
>I mean are all u people really this dumb
yes
>I mean like the stonger gear crap
with of corse the exception of a few
huh?
>AND U GUY NEED TO STOP PICKING ON TOM A
But it's soooooo fun! He is the self-proclaimed father of modern BASE you know...
>the guy knows his shit and other than baning idiots from the drok zone
yes he does know his shit...but why does he keep on banning idiots from the dork zone? Oh yeah...he's grasping onto a tiny bit of (what must be quite embarrassing) useless power...
>theres nothin to complian about he actually contributes in a positve way to our sport which is more than i can say for me and most of u
I'd say yes..Tom has taught us alot of what not to do in BASE...
Classic Tom A first words after waking from a nasty BASE accident...
"Is my accident on the BASE board???" (he truly is dedicated to the DORK zone - oh yeah...that was before DZ.com)
gotta love the soft cuddly teddy bear anyway tho... WE LOVE YOU TOM!!!
And what's a McJJ?
JJ
If your flying a tarp then you know nothing...is it made of latex or cornsilk?
>because the more I read the crap here the more I say to my self. I'm willing to bet we hit at least 15 fatalites next year.
15 is most likely an understatement...
>I mean are all u people really this dumb
yes
>I mean like the stonger gear crap
with of corse the exception of a few
huh?
>AND U GUY NEED TO STOP PICKING ON TOM A
But it's soooooo fun! He is the self-proclaimed father of modern BASE you know...
>the guy knows his shit and other than baning idiots from the drok zone
yes he does know his shit...but why does he keep on banning idiots from the dork zone? Oh yeah...he's grasping onto a tiny bit of (what must be quite embarrassing) useless power...
>theres nothin to complian about he actually contributes in a positve way to our sport which is more than i can say for me and most of u
I'd say yes..Tom has taught us alot of what not to do in BASE...
Classic Tom A first words after waking from a nasty BASE accident...
"Is my accident on the BASE board???" (he truly is dedicated to the DORK zone - oh yeah...that was before DZ.com)
gotta love the soft cuddly teddy bear anyway tho... WE LOVE YOU TOM!!!
And what's a McJJ?
JJ
What up Pope. Dead is dead and a base jump is a base jump. But..
From my own experience - and coaching, mentoring, and watching many beginner BASE jumpers develop into well rounded confident level headed BASE jumpers...they often go thru a "passage of injury" before they level off into a "smarter" jumper...so I'll agree with that what My Two Cents, 736 Tornolf and wwarped are saying... with MMK I say yes and no. Newbies without guidance are potentially more likely to become statistics. Not all newbies assess their jumps appropriately. Hence rubberbands on PC's, flying wingsuits into walls, not having a system to make sure the bridle is attached, not being prepared for offheadings, unstable exits, etc.
It's the disillusioned that usually fuck up and die. Whether beginner, intermediate or experienced (RT, TC, TM, DW, DT, JF, LB, etc). For the beginner the disillusion is lack of guidance, for the intermediate the disillusion is over-confidence, for the experienced the disillusion is complacency, lack of foresight or forethought - whether it's gear knowledge, physics, conditions, or whatever. Every jump is experimental. Every jump needs to be thought out. And every jump needs to have the right gear to lessen a potential accident.
This call for a need to get good initial training, have a mentor, do plenty of "BASE research," know the gear and have the best gear, become intimately knowledgeable with "The List" (thanks Nick), and keeping your activities in check.
A very experienced BASEr recently indicated to me that he was weighing it out (BASE), because I think he was experiencing that disillusionment (he's doing some fantastic jumps with his buddies around the globe) that we can ALL get caught up in.
Stay focused and stay alive!
JJ
From my own experience - and coaching, mentoring, and watching many beginner BASE jumpers develop into well rounded confident level headed BASE jumpers...they often go thru a "passage of injury" before they level off into a "smarter" jumper...so I'll agree with that what My Two Cents, 736 Tornolf and wwarped are saying... with MMK I say yes and no. Newbies without guidance are potentially more likely to become statistics. Not all newbies assess their jumps appropriately. Hence rubberbands on PC's, flying wingsuits into walls, not having a system to make sure the bridle is attached, not being prepared for offheadings, unstable exits, etc.
It's the disillusioned that usually fuck up and die. Whether beginner, intermediate or experienced (RT, TC, TM, DW, DT, JF, LB, etc). For the beginner the disillusion is lack of guidance, for the intermediate the disillusion is over-confidence, for the experienced the disillusion is complacency, lack of foresight or forethought - whether it's gear knowledge, physics, conditions, or whatever. Every jump is experimental. Every jump needs to be thought out. And every jump needs to have the right gear to lessen a potential accident.
This call for a need to get good initial training, have a mentor, do plenty of "BASE research," know the gear and have the best gear, become intimately knowledgeable with "The List" (thanks Nick), and keeping your activities in check.
A very experienced BASEr recently indicated to me that he was weighing it out (BASE), because I think he was experiencing that disillusionment (he's doing some fantastic jumps with his buddies around the globe) that we can ALL get caught up in.
Stay focused and stay alive!
JJ
First off...the only complainin I'm doing is cause of my phucked up, muny grubbin lame ass insurance companies! god damn chinsy muthas! I was never late on my premiums!!!
And second - I may be old...and I may be feeble...but I'm still ALIVE and walkin and postin to you geeky nerds! I may have knocked my head against the ground a few too many times...and I may have broken a few too many bones BUT these feeble ol bones'll kick yer ass swanmaestro - whoever you are! Lame ass, weak little skydivin, wanna be base jumper beeaatch!
I'm sure BASE is just waiting to take another inexperienced-non thinkin', "oh look at me I'm a skydiver and I'm cool" soft and cuddly... easy victim like you...
The reaper awaits!
Don't be a (I know all about parachutes and physics and fear) skydiver...
JJ
And second - I may be old...and I may be feeble...but I'm still ALIVE and walkin and postin to you geeky nerds! I may have knocked my head against the ground a few too many times...and I may have broken a few too many bones BUT these feeble ol bones'll kick yer ass swanmaestro - whoever you are! Lame ass, weak little skydivin, wanna be base jumper beeaatch!
I'm sure BASE is just waiting to take another inexperienced-non thinkin', "oh look at me I'm a skydiver and I'm cool" soft and cuddly... easy victim like you...
The reaper awaits!
Don't be a (I know all about parachutes and physics and fear) skydiver...
JJ
$90K from shattered femur - just below the neck. Not even from BASE but GL-ing - and no heli, just ambulance!
Still fighting my lame Blue Cross AND supplemental (we pay your out of pocket!)insurance 1.5 years later... my credit is screwed til it gets resolved. More and more it looks like I'm gonna have to hire an attorney...
Still fighting my lame Blue Cross AND supplemental (we pay your out of pocket!)insurance 1.5 years later... my credit is screwed til it gets resolved. More and more it looks like I'm gonna have to hire an attorney...
Well...duh! of course pulling low is the highlight of BASE you idiots! I'm not sure of the REAL facts...but sounds like the guy phucked up pulling low. I've been there and it was a RUSH! In fact, my best memories of BASE are the low pulls - I love kicking the koalas mate!
JJ
JJ
QuoteI don't know why I'm fighting this corner, but i guess it must matter to me so...
This thread is entitled Fatality: Swiss Valley and as such comments will be read in that light - as pertaining to the fatality on Saturday in the Swiss Valley.
Csabi - the jumper who died on Saturday - is reported to have had 490 BASE jumps or thereabouts which by anyone's standards ought to make him an experienced jumper (insomuch as he had 490jumps worth of prior experience).
I just thought that point is worth reiterating for anyone who cares about commenting on the facts in hand. Of course if there's anyone out there who'd like to vent in this thread about other unrelated subjects (maybe a monologue on securing your pilot chute to your bridle, or not using modified skydiving gear - subjects which equally have no bearing on this fatality) then i guess this thread (read soapbox)is as good as any.
ian
This is one reason why it's called the dorkzone. I always regret posting here...
OK rob...I read it everyday to I'm finally going to post again. Not that anyone wants to hear...(but I don't care)...
I'm almost as phucked up as Spacey (in the head) after seeing so many needless fatalities and being a part of so many rescues of dead BASE bodies and broken limbs...living to see crap like this substantiates my reasons to check out other things life has to offer...that said - here's my take.
After being in retirement for over 3 years now...reading 30 fatalities since DW...too many being good friends lost...to read about posts like this is very sad but inevitable in this sport. BASE generates so much excitement, people forget about the lethal nature of jumping from an object with a parachute. BASE will eventually either end your life or dramatically change it. People take this sport way too lightly. My advice (which may sound hypocritical after throwing 100 bodies off Kjerag) is to start slow...a pendulator, then a bridge, then a big (terminal) overhung cliff, then start thinking of other ways to potentially kill yourself with a parachute (that provide less risk).
Staldenflu is not a good cliff to do your first jump. I remember my first jump there, #234, with a ZP canopy (now there's a bad idea for a BASE canopy), a solo after trying to find the exit of this WAY overhung cliff I could see from the valley floor. That was my impression..."it's huge, it's WAY overhung, and it's perfectly safe!" On the contrary, it's 8 seconds to impact and requires a good track to get some distance from the cliff. A beginner should never consider this cliff...or any cliff in the valley...or any cliff at all!
Beginners should take it slow! I did and look what it got me, a broken back, a broken heel, separated ribs, facial lacerations...3 trips to the hospital in 5 different incidences - and I didn't even die! After jump #275 I found the more forgiving learning curve - no more injuries! I Didn't even see a fatality for the first 3 years...another good reason to push it hard! When you are a beginner, you see everything through beginner's eyes. Eyes that have very little idea of what they are looking at. Find a new epistemology...Listen to what the guys with hundreds of jumps are saying and don't think you're special and don't need to hear the steh crap they're saying.
Enjoy the camaraderie! The travel! The visuals! Start sensibly and learn how to get stable and get used to the overwhelming visuals before raising your bar. Enjoy BASE for what it is...don't take shortcuts, and have some god damn respect for the sport and the sites! Just because it looks easy and you're a skydiver with lots of experience doesn't make you an experienced BASE jumper! Learn from the mistakes of others. Read The List (thanks Nick!) and intimately understand each mistake...because that's what they are - mistakes! Don't be another statistic and miss the rest of this opportunity to breath easily...
Now that you've read my stupid lecture...I'm gonna go sit in an office so I can pay the mortgage...now that's living!
Seriously tho, sorry this jumper's family has to live through the horror. He should of had the chance to make 1000 more BASE jumps...
JJ
I'm almost as phucked up as Spacey (in the head) after seeing so many needless fatalities and being a part of so many rescues of dead BASE bodies and broken limbs...living to see crap like this substantiates my reasons to check out other things life has to offer...that said - here's my take.
After being in retirement for over 3 years now...reading 30 fatalities since DW...too many being good friends lost...to read about posts like this is very sad but inevitable in this sport. BASE generates so much excitement, people forget about the lethal nature of jumping from an object with a parachute. BASE will eventually either end your life or dramatically change it. People take this sport way too lightly. My advice (which may sound hypocritical after throwing 100 bodies off Kjerag) is to start slow...a pendulator, then a bridge, then a big (terminal) overhung cliff, then start thinking of other ways to potentially kill yourself with a parachute (that provide less risk).
Staldenflu is not a good cliff to do your first jump. I remember my first jump there, #234, with a ZP canopy (now there's a bad idea for a BASE canopy), a solo after trying to find the exit of this WAY overhung cliff I could see from the valley floor. That was my impression..."it's huge, it's WAY overhung, and it's perfectly safe!" On the contrary, it's 8 seconds to impact and requires a good track to get some distance from the cliff. A beginner should never consider this cliff...or any cliff in the valley...or any cliff at all!
Beginners should take it slow! I did and look what it got me, a broken back, a broken heel, separated ribs, facial lacerations...3 trips to the hospital in 5 different incidences - and I didn't even die! After jump #275 I found the more forgiving learning curve - no more injuries! I Didn't even see a fatality for the first 3 years...another good reason to push it hard! When you are a beginner, you see everything through beginner's eyes. Eyes that have very little idea of what they are looking at. Find a new epistemology...Listen to what the guys with hundreds of jumps are saying and don't think you're special and don't need to hear the steh crap they're saying.
Enjoy the camaraderie! The travel! The visuals! Start sensibly and learn how to get stable and get used to the overwhelming visuals before raising your bar. Enjoy BASE for what it is...don't take shortcuts, and have some god damn respect for the sport and the sites! Just because it looks easy and you're a skydiver with lots of experience doesn't make you an experienced BASE jumper! Learn from the mistakes of others. Read The List (thanks Nick!) and intimately understand each mistake...because that's what they are - mistakes! Don't be another statistic and miss the rest of this opportunity to breath easily...
Now that you've read my stupid lecture...I'm gonna go sit in an office so I can pay the mortgage...now that's living!
Seriously tho, sorry this jumper's family has to live through the horror. He should of had the chance to make 1000 more BASE jumps...
JJ
Still trying to figure out what's wrong with F111. Why is F111 looked down upon? From a manufacturers standpoint it's the simplest and least expensive to construct. From a jumpers standpoint you get unparalleled sub terminal slider up performance and it costs less – you don’t have to spend money on injuries or funerals anymore and you have more money to spend on traveling.
Vented ZP is acceptable for slider down because the p/c does not have a chance to oscillate enough to influence the canopy extraction and thus the opening direction. Vents on a ZP p/c clearly DO NOT eliminate sub terminal p/c oscillation - only reduces it 10 to 20% over non-vented. F111 DOES eliminate ALL p/c oscillation. In other words, non-vented and vented ZP !SUCKS! for sub terminal slider up! Make sense?
F111 being thought of as being too porous and therefore taking too long to inflate can be, and has been, proven fallacious by a simple spring-loaded test like TA has done. Give F111 a try...you will not be disappointed. Or stay on the vented p/c bandwagon for sub-terminal slider up until you hit a wall and break a foot, ankle, leg (and feel the effects FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE) or die. Good luck!
The Death Monger
Vented ZP is acceptable for slider down because the p/c does not have a chance to oscillate enough to influence the canopy extraction and thus the opening direction. Vents on a ZP p/c clearly DO NOT eliminate sub terminal p/c oscillation - only reduces it 10 to 20% over non-vented. F111 DOES eliminate ALL p/c oscillation. In other words, non-vented and vented ZP !SUCKS! for sub terminal slider up! Make sense?
F111 being thought of as being too porous and therefore taking too long to inflate can be, and has been, proven fallacious by a simple spring-loaded test like TA has done. Give F111 a try...you will not be disappointed. Or stay on the vented p/c bandwagon for sub-terminal slider up until you hit a wall and break a foot, ankle, leg (and feel the effects FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE) or die. Good luck!
The Death Monger
lets see....
many thousands of jumps under study...hundreds of jumps of personal experience using F111...and I'm still here! Never had an object strike attributed to F111 pc. Problem is nobody has adapted it because of this fallible fear of "unwanted freefall." F111 is bulletproof! Can be evidenced by a 36 F111 I sold (it had 100+ jumps before I got it and jumped it for about 100 jumps and numerous counts of water exposure). It is fear that causes oscillation and thus death
THE DEATH MONGER
many thousands of jumps under study...hundreds of jumps of personal experience using F111...and I'm still here! Never had an object strike attributed to F111 pc. Problem is nobody has adapted it because of this fallible fear of "unwanted freefall." F111 is bulletproof! Can be evidenced by a 36 F111 I sold (it had 100+ jumps before I got it and jumped it for about 100 jumps and numerous counts of water exposure). It is fear that causes oscillation and thus death
THE DEATH MONGER
There's an interesting physics problem: double pendulum. "A double pendulum is a pendulum with another pendulum attached to its end, and is a simple physical system that exhibits rich dynamic behavior. Above a certain energy its motion is chaotic."
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This is great! I think Yuri is on to something here. So to reduce the double pendulum, wouldn't it be beneficial to find a way to reduce the top pendulum (i.e. the PC) from oscillating? Of course it would! Imagine all the deaths/injureis/bruised egos that may have been prevented if this damn oscillation were to stop!
The best way to stop the oscillation can be summed up in one letter and three numbers - F111. Hello!
No need to be afraid of a little porosity
***
This is great! I think Yuri is on to something here. So to reduce the double pendulum, wouldn't it be beneficial to find a way to reduce the top pendulum (i.e. the PC) from oscillating? Of course it would! Imagine all the deaths/injureis/bruised egos that may have been prevented if this damn oscillation were to stop!
The best way to stop the oscillation can be summed up in one letter and three numbers - F111. Hello!
No need to be afraid of a little porosity
Feral says hi !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
in Archive
Go inject some prison smack in your ass and wait for some more amusing material from swallow and I...
I thought you were getting out next year???
JJ