peggs82

same...i tabbed all the way through the page just so I could post this. Broken on Chrome too...

In case you are not subscribed to the Raise The Sky newsletter, I thought I would let you all know that I finally finished the Project XRW Video. For all the news: www.raisethesky.org or: Permalink

Working on the video right now

We were both flying our X-Birds. For me, it was a weird method of flying. Speed was more important than anything. The second I slowed a bit down to angle a shot, I dropped like a rock. Jeff seemed matched pretty well with Jonathan, or he's just a lot better than I am edit to add I'll have to look up my average fall rates...I wouldn't call it max max flight...but pretty close. JT was flying a canopy he has competed with in the past.

Wow, really...what a week! Now that I've had time to go through all the pictures, watch some of the video, and generally relax, all I can still say is, "wow! we did that?" I'm super excited to get the pics and video out to everyone, really they are something else. Make sure to have your subscriptions current to all the magazines, because I'm saving the best stuff for them. Keep your eye on Raise The Sky's Blog and Facebook Page for more updates too! And hey...even I got a dock in!!

This is gonna be a quick one folks..I'm busy having a blast out here in Moab. Head on over to Raise The Sky for the full write up! But I won't hold out too much for you guys...so here's a shot from a cloudy practice jump! Edit to add... It was a really great day. Eli and Skydive Moab have been the best hosts. Our day started at a dream ruining 5:00AM. Thank God Clint has a nice espresso machine! The dropzone was open and waiting for us to get going, and they kept us going all day! 4 jumps, then the day ended due to freak Moab weather...but it was a great day! Stay tuned for tomorrows updates...they are going to be great! Operation Freefall starts tomorrow. Miss Nevada arrives late tonight, and will be doing a tandem for SOAR and Operation Freefall tomorrow morning! We have some awesome jumps planned, and I cannot wait see what they can do!

The only reason that there wasn't a feeling of achievement was because the PR campaign against the grid started immediately. The participants of the (in my opinion) BETTER formation were never given their community due, because the politics were already flying. Who was responsible for that? Who? Names help... Really you can say things over and over, but until people go on record as saying such a thing...Its your word against anyone else's. Which brings me back to my original questions here: 1. Name of "the respected wingsuiters" 2. Names of USPA Officials - and them going on record that they think this divisive move is a good idea 3. How this is different than just participating in the our respective countries governing bodies? 4. Why we need this to "avoid tar babies" - when it's been proven we can work together - all without MORE POLITICS

All I've ever cared about on here was calling people out on BS and not letting them get away with making this forum their soapbox... I never claimed to invent anything. I'll also add this... All anyone in your "axis of evil" wanted to do here was to organize great skydives, allow wingsuiters to demonstrate the peak of their skill, and to have those achievements recognized. How do you do that? One way is records. Look at any bigway prior to 2008...then look at 2008 and 2009. Tell me those achievements are not worthy of recognition. If you don't think that it was not a paradigm shift in demonstrated skill level, then I don't know what impresses you. Those participants deserve recognition - both internal and external. No one ever sought this battle. It was started right here on dropzone.com by people who thought there was some power grab going on. Look who's grabbing for power now.

Yep...thats why the US, Australia, and South Africa adopted a record category in the first place. Once people start doing them...they can be refined. No arguments there. How do you propose to do that? Photoshop? Yep...done that too. Ask zach and andreea. Funny Jarno...i didn't see you at the USPA BOD meeting? But if your referring to my vocal displeasure over the assertion that "record spacing is unsafe"...well then yes..I do still object to that baseless allegation.

How deliciously ironic... getting mad at me for inconveniencing you with simple questions before you actually make a proposal!! I just want to know whats going on "before the camel gets its nose under the tent!!!" Its already been admitted that, "the concept was discussed with a few BOD members and EC members prior to the symposium"...So who knows what and how it is going to be sold, and to whom.. Your ringleader... "Whether or not USPA (or any other body) accepts our competition results or not really doesn't matter. We have reason to believe they will, once this organization becomes tangible. " Creating competitions, along with the rules and regs for them...sounds pretty governing to me.. Why not??? -Artistic- You have been running a artistic comp for 2.5 years now. You've had wide participation, and no other alternative camps have challenged the validity of what you do.. why not focus, actually write down some concrete rules and submit it? After your performance at the last comp, I would gladly call your team the International best, and have it be a FAI or Italian record. -GPS- Whenever its convient to argue suit performance, everyone tells you to go to tracking derby....why not submit those rules for acceptance?? I would gladly follow those rules and try for a record. I would be happy to see someone who has been running this stuff for a few years put up a proposal, even if it is "imperfect". I would gladly take that over wallowing on it for 5-10 years with no progress towards acceptance. No its a lot more fun DOING this stuff FOR REAL, without people telling you that their theoretical ideas are better...

I could only hope to be as eloquent as pat one day. I especially like the following: I really wonder sometimes this knee jerk reaction to 1 element of disagreement? Has anyone even bothered to have a dialogue about ANYTHING else in this discipline (and actually keep it on that topic - through a clear and enforced published agenda)? -Maybe some headway could be made where we might find some common ground? -Maybe we would move forward in getting OTHER RECORD CATEGORIES recognized? -Or maybe we might find some people have more knowledge and experience than themselves in organizing such dives? - I've never organized a docked naked rodeo record, I'd listen to purple mike...or do enough of them myself that I would have real data to talk about. nahh...that sounds too smart and civilized...lets just create a new club... Take our ball and go somewhere else! Can we get a list of names already? Maybe something a bit more specific than "8 well respected wingsuiters"... - Wait no - can we have them actually speak for themselves rather than a list? - What are their credentials? Other than agreeing with you? - Did you bother to even invite people who disagree with you to be in on the ground floor of this? Going with that thread. Can we have the mystery members of the BOD and EC go on record and detail exactly what they discussed and agreed to? Especially important if the name and standing of the USPA is being invoked! Again I wil ask, how is this any different than going through our ACTUAL GOVERNING BODIES?? -The USPA has offered an arbiter before (WS instruction, BSR), and has offered one now... -The FAI set up a FORUM to have the community heard on Unlinked bigway - as I immagine they would in the future. These are very simple questions to answer, and do not require my full knowledge of the organization. So please don't tell us to "wait for the full announcement" PS - Fine...substitute FAI/IPC for USPA...all of these comments still hold true. Elected members and directors who govern the competition/standards of our sport.

x2 There are USPA Board members...who I vote for...in elections. Thats about all the stomach I have for political maneuvering. Believe me, I would have much rather discussed this in the meeting at flock and dock, than to have it dropped in the last 8 mins 28secs of the meeting with no elaboration, names of sponsors or supporters, or details. If I had to "verbal vomit" a wingsuit organization, it would be this: I would imagine a group of people who, if they cared enough, would go to a meeting with an arbiter from our already existing governing body, where we would talk about issues. In these meetings we would have well laid out agendas. We would get together and revise as we have already demonstrated we can do, and then we would see if we could all agree to take it to committee (which we have also already done) Oh wait...the USPA all ready proposed just such a idea. Tell John Hancock to put not sign just yet Just because there was/is a disagreement over the issue of ONE type of record category, does not mean that I (for example) disagree with you over any other issue in wingsuiting. Adding bureaucracy to this situation would be like cutting off my foot because I stubbed a toe.

"going to be recorded and edited" --- Hilarious Perfect illustration of the need to have video evidence, in an effort to shield one's self from ridiculous untrue statements on dropzone.com Thank you zach for doing exactly what I was in the process of doing.

No...trust me when I say tampa is the way to go

you can't?

it dosen't?? The 2nd black line was added at the 27%, and what I confirmed my measurements of jeff on...(head to foot - not tail wing) 25way2 is to confirm my scaling 25way3 is the successful grid placement. So while it worked really well with the 25% (less sliding), on the arguable best formation to date, we still see that it does work (albeit more sliding) at 27%.

As always, there will be certain ways of presenting information. What we leave out says a lot some times. What was left out from this statement is that the USPA Director of Competition said this morning in his full, public Board presentation that we are leading the world in the wingsuit category and will continue to do so. It was clarified by the president of the board that "in no way diminishes or takes away from the excellent accomplishment of all records and their organization" Lastly, it was clarified in a re-reading of ANNEX 52, the US delegation never sought the reported "immediate implementation" at the FAI. Only after all of that did the board pass the motion. The tone here is certainly not the "we made a gross error" that seems to be a common party line floating around. I am here at the BOD meeting to keep everyone honest.

Remember how you told me you had given your smaller canopy to your rigger, and told him, "Keep this away from me until I am really once again ready for it" --- Maybe I voted "No" with that story in mind... --------------------- But to get away from personal grievances - I encourage everyone who is reading this from the sidelines, everyone who has enjoyed this past year - A year of RECORDS, a year of ACCOMPLISHMENT, a year of PRIDE to let the USPA know just what the Grid has done for Wingsuiting. Tell them about the number of events you participated in, where you traveled to DZs to be a part of USPA records. Tell them about the skills camps you participated in which made you better skydivers. Tell them how these records MADE WINGSUITING BETTER! Think of how you felt, when you could tell your parents, your children, your friends, your co-workers that you HELD A RECORD! The train is rolling....yes...we finally have momentum. Keep it up. This year was invigorating. Seeing people WORK HARD to be a part of something special...well to me, that was special. We made real accomplishments - and I want to see it continue! Anyone who needs info on how to tell the USPA you support the US proposal, please contact me.

Taya, You did an outstanding, awesome job with the BOD in both Wingsuit Record and Wingsuit Instructor Rating presentations. You worked hard and it was obvious to everyone. Thank you for standing next to me (and holding me up) during the Sunday presentation. You were a rockstar for wingsuiting at this BOD meeting. -DSE July 14,2009 The selective memory here is crazy!!!!!!!!

Again, untrue.... Jarno and I spoke about this program at the end of Oct. He asked me to keep it quiet from the public, which I did out of respect for your project. After seeing a screen grab, and hearing a description, I replied to him in an email - "Jarno, I would love to give your program a test drive. It looks really interesting, and I think this next week would be a great time to try it! I will keep it quiet of course... And I appreciate you forwarding it to me. I approached Taya on it (telling her to keep quiet too) and she said she would love to try it as well and give you all the feedback we can! [...] just point me to the download! Thanks man Phil" - I never received the program from Jarno I was in your trailer 2 nights before the event began, after my cut-away. You showed me the program, I said I would like to give it a tryout during the event - You never gave me the program I was in the same room as Scotty Burns, another member of this group, for the entire event. He never said a word about it. - Scotty never gave me the program I was in the company of Scott Callantine, another member of this group, for the entire event. He never mentioned the program. - Scott C never gave me the program. **********EDIT ONLY TO ADD MY ATTACHMENT********

From the FAQ Q: I have an idea for a different formation judging system. How can I get it recognized? http://raisethesky.org/wingsuit/#idea Each country will have a different process for considering proposals. The USPA Competition Committee is the starting point in the United States. Member contact information is available on the USPA website. The future of wingsuit formation skydiving may extend to three-dimensional and sequential formations, so innovation in these areas will be welcomed. Before making a proposal, test the system by organizing events and watching the results. Without proven results, it is difficult for any sport governing body to adopt rules. The current system grew from the 71-way event at Lake Elsinore in November 2008, and has been proven by multiple state records and a 68-way national record. No other system has been tested at as many attempted records of sizes ranging from 4 to 73 participants. You are being misleading...again.... nothing has been "quick" and there is no "within the community" vs. "outsiders" There are many different aspects of community in skydiving. Nowhere is there a written definition of "wingsuiting community" that defines what that consensus would mean, which leaves the term "community" open for interpretation and occasionally...abuse Remember in 2008, when a bunch of wingsuit skydivers achieved something great? They flew a safe, slot-specific 71-way wingsuit formation while testing a system that had been under development by multiple people for a year (since 2007). They refined it...tested methods...organized multiple events...and achieved something measurably great the next time. A 68-way slot specific wingsuit formation that became the US National Record in 2009. Those same skydivers also used the record recognition to raise $5000 for charity...which would not have been possible at a "testing" event. The organizers and participants who were part of those achievements...and who worked on those achievements for two years, have a right to ask for them to be recognized. The recognition of these accomplishments does not in any way prevent others from organizing their own events...and pursuing other records in the future. They have support from dropzones, sport governing bodies, participants who sign up and show up. Asking them to STOP and basically abandon two years of progress is hard to understand, let alone agree with. It's not the development aspect of judging that is controversial...it's the part where you ask for others' achievements not to be recognized in the meantime.

Yeah, sure..."commenting" on it while it conveniently makes the USPA system sound ludicrous in costs... misinformation From the FAQ Q: What if a terrible looking formation that technically fits the grid is submitted as a record? http://raisethesky.org/wingsuit/#terrible This is certainly possible, but has not yet happened. The rules initially left a large margin of error to allow wingsuit flyers to demonstrate their skill level with this new record category. The large margin was adopted at the suggestion of the USPA Competition Committee (not wingsuit organizers, who initially proposed a much more strict standard). Committee members are: Bill Wenger (chair), BJ Worth, Kirk Verner, Marylou Laughlin, Larry Hill, Lee Schlichtemeier, Scott Smith, and Vic Johnson. All are highly experienced skydiving competitors, record holders, and/or judges. In six months under the current rules, organizers have proven their intentions to meet a higher standard. The USPA Committee will revisit the rules in February 2010 at the winter Board Meeting and are likely to tighten the requirements so that all fliers will be required to be completely within their grid square. Fliers would be able to touch a line, but not have any part of their body or wing across the line. This is the standard that was, in fact, met by the US National 68-way Record and is advocated by its organizers. It is also an example of how the adoption of one standard, rather than “locking in” the rules, can serve as a platform for improvement and change. From the FAQ Q: If the FAI recognizes wingsuit formation flying based on records that have been achieved so far, does that stop development or changes to the current judging system? http://raisethesky.org/wingsuit/#beginning No. It simply recognizes current achievements as a basis for the future. All disciplines in skydiving have seen their record and competition criteria change over the years. The FAI exists to recognize individual and group achievements in air sports, and to promote safe parameters within which records can be set. Changes to the current judging procedures will undoubtedly be adopted as they become viable and necessary. FAI recognition, which happens by a vote of the International Parachuting Commission (the subset of the FAI devoted to parachuting), is the beginning, not the end, of the growth process for wingsuit flying.

Factually untrue Jarno, and you know it. There are numerous FREE open source alternatives to photoshop, and all it takes is a simple GOOGLE search to find it. Allow me to help you out... www.gimp.org A free open source cross platform image manipulation platform that works on PC, OSX, and Linux. If thats not your cup of tea, there are numerous cheaper than photoshop alternatives that still work with layers and PSDs... For example - Photoshop Elements (google search - $53) For a "How to set a USPA record" FAQ, please go to http://raisethesky.org/wingsuit/ and also visit the USPA (to read the rules - not 2nd hand accounts), don't listen to the misinformation being spread here.

I agree...what a poor choice in camera... Couldn't he at least strap on a GoPro or anything?? Standing by for more info!

Consider this your "cease and desist" letter J-Sho.... You are using my intelectual property and did not list my name in your credits!