shaiziel

But if god tells you to do it, that offers all the justification and cause you need. "Thou shall not kill*" * - Unless I tell you to. ---------------------------------------- 6.8% - Almost there!

Reading about walking as a fat burning tool. Essentially the claim is that low-medium exertion + long duration + high aerobic = best fat burning Anyone have any knowledge or applicable experience to contribute? ---------------------------------------- 6.8% - Almost there!

Yesterday I was thinking about how it must be to listen to be a woman and seeing the world from that perspective (After re-reading my post in Women Only). And I just had this imagination of something so incredibly different from my own.. I dunno it was just cool. I try to imagine what it's like to be on the receiving end of my words and so forth. Anyway, what you were saying is pretty consisten I imagine. The whole "getting bored" syndrome. Life just isn't meant to be mundane. And if ya want it that way, there's something wrong with you. ---------------------------------------- 6.8% - Almost there!

Speaking of stepford... having a wife like that in the movie (Stepford Wives)... I cannot imagine. One of the driving forces in life is conflict. With conflict comes the chance for resolution. With resolution comes satisfaction. With satisfaction, comes happiness. So conflict, loosely and not always, results in happiness (among other important benefits, see: growth) I think many would agree, part of what makes a marriage interesting is the act of using your relationship and strengths to overcome challenges and accomplish goals. The notion of a stepford wife is a notion of bliss. Bliss is terribly fucking overrated. ---------------------------------------- 6.8% - Almost there!

Just taking your lead on good and evil. It's subjective, right? Speaking of posts that don't make any sense... Here is the nature of subjective morality. Actions themselves do not have a moral polarity. That is to say, that no action is good or evil. An action is an action, nothing more. But the thing that makes one say "Well that was evil" or "Well that was good" are: A. the consequences and how they affect other people, and their perspective of the consequences. B. your personal position on whether an action is good or evil based on your ideas/beliefs/convictions/emotions/thoughts. Both of these things are what frame an action in the context, and ultimate the context of the action dictates whether people say the action is good or evil. If you don't believe morality is at least, at it's root, subjective, the simplest way to explain it is with killing. If a man walks into a house and kills the wife of a couple who he doesn't even know, for no reason other than a psychotic rampage, that would widley be regarded as "evil." So in retaliation, the husband of the murdered wife kills the man. In the context of the stated scenario, the man who killed in retaliation is justified and most would see what this man did as "good." So in the period of a minute of time, we've had two people kill, and one of them is evil, the other is good, or at least justified. We, at this point, have established a line of subjectivity. One man killed for a reason society sees as evil, the other man killed for a reason society would see as good. The action is the same, but the context is different and as a result, we have established that the action has no polarity in and of itself. To put it in a christian perspective. God told the Israelites to take the land of Canaan and kill every man, woman, and child as well as their livestock. God essentially said, "Eradicate this group of people so you may take the land I've given you." And what happened when they didn't? God punished them by not allowing them to take the land of Canaan and forced them to wander around the wilderness for a few more years. Why? Because god explicitly told them to do something, and they didn't do it. So we have a dilemma. Were the Israelites evil for killing the Canaanites? Were they evil for not killing (presumably for their own selfish reasons)? Evil in action? Evil in inaction? The 10 commandments states that man should not kill or, for semantics nuts, murder (yes I know the difference, I'm getting there). So here we have god telling his chosen people to kill a bunch of "not so chosen" people so they could take the land god promised them. Let me restate this. They killed a bunch of people for land. Lets restate it again. They killed a bunch of people for self-gain. They were explicitly told to kill everything and everyone, children included, for land that god promised them. In my opinion, that's pretty fucking evil. But you would say "The will of God surpasses our understanding so we can't judge the situation from the holy perspective that god holds since he is righteous. We are to follow his will and if you step outside of his will you are sinning." You're telling me, it's evil to not kill when god tells you to kill. Right? What The Fuck!? Regardless of this atrocity (and others like it that followed, see: inquisition) it again shows that actions aren't evil unless they are framed in context that shades the action as evil. Here's all I can say. Morality is anything but subjective for christians, so you are in no position to be making subjective statements or taking subjective positions about anything. Your only position on the morality of an action should be the position god takes. I don't know how god feels about abuse or torture, but if there is any christian that gets a chubby about it, I don't want to deal with them. Laughing at Abu Gharib and the other incidents at our interment camps is, in my opinion, just as indignant, disrespectful, and unnecessary as a bunch of middle eastern men laughing at the world trade center. I'd rather just beat both their asses. Whatever though, just put in your Jesus ear plugs ---------------------------------------- 6.8% - Almost there!

If I still smoked, I'd have to light one up to understand all of that. maybe I can remember my mantra and do a little TM. It's just english man. Sorry if my train of thought is overly-elaborate/complicated/eloquent/convoluted. I just do my best to help make sure people read what I wrote as I intend it. It's probably a good idea to pay attention to the commas. Just sayin. ---------------------------------------- 6.8% - Almost there!

See. Told ya. ---------------------------------------- 6.8% - Almost there!

How many of us have you met in real life to know how we really are? Admittedly it was a sweeping generalization based on no actual knowledge, experience, or anything worthwile or substantial, with a slight (*hah*) hint of provocation. Let it be known, even the best that is imaginary falls short of the least that is real. ---------------------------------------- 6.8% - Almost there!

If god created the world, this... life is worthless to god, and thus worthless to humanity, as it's only purpose is to serve god. Humanity is an afterthought in the "greater scheme things." Your only purpose is to live a life for god so that you may spend your eternal spiritual existence, again, serving god. I further reemphasize the fact that this life is worthless because christians even believe that the things of this world will pass away and you won't think of your life in the world unless, i guess, it's a prelude to your next exaltation of god's great mercy on your soul. The christian agenda is to forego this life so that you may have a blissful eternity. If there is no god, and there is no afterlife, then this life becomes infinitesimally more meaningful and worthwhile. This is all there is. The life you lead, the people you meet, the things you do, all these things become the highlight of your great story. While not all lives led are has high profile as others, no life is any less for its worth. Everyone born has the opportunity, the chance, to live a life NOONE else will ever live. Your love, your hate, your pleasure, your pain, dance on the stage of your life's experiences. From moment to moment, day to day, year to year, you grow and learn and become this person that no one else will ever be. Everything you do has a strengthened effect on the people around you. The life you live is defined by how you live it. While people may look down on you, it matters not because ultimately, you are responsible for you. And you know what the best part about a temporary life is? Closure. The fact that when it's all said and done, you don't have to live anymore. You don't have to do anything else. You get to rest. Nothing else matters and you don't have to worry about anything. Let me say this. A god that would have me live a life of hell to have an eternal life in heaven is no god I want to serve. A god that would have me forsake all I love, whether it be a wife, or kids, or other family, or my happiness, my health, whatever, to prove his "point", I just find to be so absurd. I wouldn't lose a moment of my life, my love, or my pain, for anything. It's made me what I am today and that's something no one else will ever be. I have no regrets except the mistake of not doing more in life. ---------------------------------------- 6.8% - Almost there!

I've never been known to be charming, suave, or smooth. And of course, it's not like her character was real. I just spent a good portion of the movie thinking one of two things. "Yeah she's pretty hot" or "See, people just don't behave [respond to the situation] like that in real life." Although I would say there was something about that character specifically that i felt was inspiring. Of course the movie in general was inspiring. True is that. But it's par for the course as far as I'm concerned. ---------------------------------------- 6.8% - Almost there!

Oh yeah BTW, Kate Beckinsale makes all you ladies look bad. On a few different levels. The wife that's too good to be true. ---------------------------------------- 6.8% - Almost there!

Good point. There are ones that are more funny than the others. ---------------------------------------- 6.8% - Almost there!

What. I just said what the 2nd half is where the serious/cry-worthy stuff is. Like I'd cry in public. ---------------------------------------- 6.8% - Almost there!

Worth seeing. Not a comedy and the previews don't really do the movie justice. The 1st half isn't so much funny as it is just playing the role of the exposition with a few light laughs. The 2nd half is where the movie is for the serious/cry-worthy material. All-in-all, a good movie, if you like movies that are emotionally moving. ---------------------------------------- 6.8% - Almost there!

I know we shoved the first cats we had around for the cat door through it a few times and once in the garage we put them in the cat box. Just make sure they can see where you are putting them so they don't fear the cat door. Ever since then the younger cats have learned from the older cats. ---------------------------------------- 6.8% - Almost there!

Welcome to Boredom City. Population: You. ---------------------------------------- 6.8% - Almost there!

I think even the christians could agree with this statement. Fascinating. ---------------------------------------- 6.8% - Almost there!

According to the calvinist view, no matter what you do, if you are not called by god, you will not be saved. You can love god and have faith in god and live a life for god all you want, in the end, you won't be saved. Of course they say that if you're not called, you won't have faith in god so the problems are mutually exclusive. This view provides a severe discredit to the nature of god as a merciful and gracious being. Let's recap. God created you the way you are, tells you to be totally different, punishes you eternally if you don't make the correct decision while being supplied meager, at best, evidence for god's existence. You're created with free will but gods will is that you worship/serve god which is counter to the will of your sinful nature. So if you exercise your free will, and make a choice god would not have you make, you get punished eternally. And now Royd has brought to our attention, the notion that god created everyone, but not everyone will be chosen by god to be saved. So for some of us out here, we might as well just kill ourselves now because, unknowingly, we are incapable of accepting god's eternal prize of salvation, which would logically say that in fact, we do not have free will. We cannot choose heaven over hell because god did not choose us. Why did he not choose us? Because god knows the nature of our hearts and, as the movie "Dogma" illustrates, god can't be proved wrong or else really bad things start happening. Remember, god's will be done, not yours. So why in the hell do you even bother with having free will. You're damned or you're not, and there's about jack shit you can do about it. Ladies and gentlemen, what we have here is a logical meltdown. It doesn't make any sense. Why love a god who will not choose to accept someone into his fold, and who, by making a choice, overrides your ability to make a choice? I present to you the idea of a god, if god exists, that wants nothing more from you than an effort to seek the truth and maybe, after seeking, having "faith" in it. But this god doesn't punish you for making a mistake or failing. Because this god has an all-encompassing and infinite love for it's creation; even the worst among us. Yeah, forget it. Too good to be true. Lets stick with god the loving murderer (justified in his actions of course) who sends to eternal damnation the very thing he created because it didn't turn out right. I ask, does it seem like we've spent more time in history making god in our image just because we say we're made in his? Cause what we've been left with is an all-powerful being with a child's temper and the incapacity to behave logically. I couldn't imagine a more dangerous and horrible human being, let alone, a god. ---------------------------------------- 6.8% - Almost there!

Here is what I think he's missing. The theory goes that god created man with the free will which is supposedly evident by the fact that one can choose to have faith in god or choose to deny god. While the only "logical" choice by christian reasoning is to choose to have faith, despite all reasoning, so you won't go to hell. It's fear based choice-making, but they call it love. ANYWAY... the "paradox" arises when christians say that god is all-knowing. Specifically, this implies that god knows what choices we will make, whether to accept god or deny god. However, in human logic, for one to know which option an individual will choose, implies that the person who knows has some sort of control over the situation. But if god has control over the situation, then your will is not truly free. Logically, if god knows that you will never accept salvation, then there is nothing you can do to accept salvation. As such, you don't really have a choice to accept salvation. Since god knows and all. Popular example, man denies god all his life. He has a slow death and, on his deathbed, since god "knows the man's heart" god knows that the man will continue to deny the free gift of salvation. But how can god know what a man will choose if the man has free will? A. God isn't all knowing B. Man doesn't have free will The trick to this is that if you choose option A, you're speaking blasphemy according to the church. If you choose option B, you're still speaking blasphemy according to the church. (However I do not know if it actually states in the bible that man has a free will. As far as I know, it doesn't.) The christian answer, which you can only have available to you if you're a christian, is to say that god exists outside the confines of time so god can see into the future that you won't make the decision to accept salvation. If that doesn't compute with you, then essentially christians just say "Tough shit, have faith" or... more eloquently "I don't know, but I have faith in god's plan for me and everyone else." COP OUT ANSWER! You'll probably be reminded that using human logic to understand god will never work since god is not bound by logic. At that point, you should come to realize that you cannot, I repeat, CANNOT have a logical conversation with a christian for too long. Hell it even defies logic for a christian to say "We can't understand/know the true nature of god. Our minds are too limited." Because you have, in the bible, things that are written, by people mind you, that explain attributes to the nature of god. "We don't understand god, but we know that god is omnipotent, omnipresence, unbound by time and physics, and 100% perfect." I mean, how in the fuck can you argue with that? You can't. "This doesn't make sense can you explain it?" "Well... no, but I can assure you it's right." Anyway, long ago I accepted these ideas. If god exists: 1. There is no hell, and heaven as it is taught probably isn't true. 2. Humans were never perfect and were never intended to be perfect, as such, the need for perfection, through salvation or otherwise, is unnecessary. 3. God does not know what choice you will make in the context of faith/denial in/of god. But god doesn't blame you for denial.. as god, in god's infinite wisdom, knows that a large portion of mankind will succumb to denial due to logical inconsistencies with what they have been taught about god. 4. In god's infinite mercy, you will not be punished outside of living a life without faith in god, if you consider that a punishment. 5. If god is all-powerful, then god has power over sin and can provide salvation without the need for sacrifice. In case you didn't notice, the idea of sacrifice to any god isn't exactly a selling point to any religion. Think of the story where god tells the man to kill his only son to show his faith. Yeah, that's barbarism and we dont do that any more. New and improved christianity lets you in to heaven, all you have to say is that Jesus was the perfect sacrifice. Sweet deal! And you didn't even have to kill your child or an animal. New testament god rocks! Some christians say that if god gave everyone salvation then they wouldn't have free will because god would effectively be making the decision for everyone. Well I think you'll find, many people would trade the ability to make this decision for an eternity in heaven. Besides, it's not like being bound to god's will or having free will made angels any more content. A third of them still went with satan. Speaking of angels and satan. There was a point I believed that if god existed, and god is as god is characterized in the old testament, the vengelful, tantrum throwing, murderous dude he is, I theorized that perhaps satan was kicked out for pointing out (and acting accordingly) to god that the way god was handling humanity (holding fallible humanity accountable to an infallible law, when man was created fallible) unethically (see: the flood, sodom and gomorrah.) It essentially made god out to be the bad guy and satan the good guy. After all, in the old testament, god wasn't very merciful (see: the canaanites and every other civilization god told his chosen people to eradicate) so it made sense. But that was all back when I believed that god existed. Now I just have ideas about existence despite whether or not god exists. Whatever, I'll wait for more responses. EDIT: I should add this. If god is all-powerful, and not bound by time, and if god really wants every human being to go to heaven, then god should have no trouble inspiring everyone to make the right decision while not counteracting free will. Am I right? I mean god knows what choice we will make in the end and some how manages to not be in control of our choice. If mankind is the child of god, and being the child, we are not capable of taking care of ourselves, then we are god's responsibility. God supposedly made us the way we are and apparently we are inaqequate without god. So if one man fails and is punished with an eternity spent in hell, seperated from his creator and all things love and joyful, who's fault is that? The man who, due to lacking the experiences and upbringing or whatever other variables, failed to "see the light?" Or the all-powerful, all-knowing, all-present deity that created the man? Does a parent let a baby stick objects in an electrical outlet after telling the baby "No." so that the baby may learn through experience? No parent that I wouldn't think twice to backhand. If we are as children in god's sight, and effectively prone to making child-like mistakes due to child-like understanding and capabilities, are we in any position to be responsible for our proposed eternal souls? Hardly. I'm sorry, but if you're going to tell me my "eternal soul" is my responsibility when, according to your orthodoxy, I am wholly incapable of making correct decisions consistently, the fuck if I'm going to agree to being responsible for something I don't even understand. This is where you say "and that is why you need god. So that you can make the right decisions and follow his will." Again, what of the people who, by being human, do not choose faith? Is not everyone entitled to a Saul-like experience. A man who killed christians with a passion turns into one of the greatest christians ever known? Is it not within god's capacity, and certainly, is it not god's responsibility, to do everything in all god's infinite power, to show someone the truth so that they may make the correct decision? If the cross can forgive the worst of sins, how can it not forgive the sin of making a mistake in denying god? I think of this. If a man hates god, god didn't show the man enough of god's love. If god stops showing love due to the man having a "hardened heart", then that man's soul is on god's hands. ---------------------------------------- 6.8% - Almost there!

People. Yeah, last time I checked, Satan doesn't make anyone do anything. All that bad stuff you mentioned is, as you would put it, of our nature. ---------------------------------------- 6.8% - Almost there!

Just bought Muse - Absolution a few weeks ago, enjoyable. CD's that constantly go into my car stereo in no particular order... Barenaked Ladies - Stunt The Darkness - Permission to Land The Darkness - One Way Ticket to Hell and Back Muse - Absolution Coldplay - X&Y A Perfect Circle - Mer de Noms Tool - 10,000 Days A.F.I - Sing the Sorrow System of a Down - Mezmerize The Offspring - Conspiracy of One The Offspring - Splinter The Lightning Seeds - Dizzy Heights ---------------------------------------- 6.8% - Almost there!

God I hope so. Sorry, had to respond before anyone else did. ---------------------------------------- 6.8% - Almost there!

If you aren't willing, why should we be? ---------------------------------------- 6.8% - Almost there!

There is actually something you have to do to be saved. "Have faith in god and accept that jesus death on the cross was for your sins.." blah blah blah and so on. Once again. For god to ask man, the sinful being man is, who is inherently fallible in all ways, specifically those which come to "making choices", to follow god's will and have faith in god when all we have as a point of reference for even the mere existence of a god is a book written by several different people, who were also fallible by nature, each with different perspectives who's stories were reviewed by the fallible leaders of a religious institution and discarded as the leaders saw necessary to protect their fallible perspective of the orthodoxy as THEY determined it should be, and for god to expect mankind to make the "right" decision to put their faith in god, despite these circumstances, is simply absurd and irrational. As a matter of fact, the only thing more absurd and irrational is the fact that the all-powerful god would punish the entirity of mankind for making the wrong choice when it was supposedly god himself who made man. And the only thing more absurd and irrational than both of these things, is that people continually, for no other reason than self-righteous, self-absorbed, and just plain selfish motivation, buy into a belief system which is founded upon being created one way and being told to be the opposite because they way they are created is wrong, lest they be punished eternally for wholly insignificant problems of a temporary life. It is, loosely, fucking bullshit. For god to allow all of mankind, in all it's filth and impurity, who before christ had no way to enter heaven outside of fallibly following an infallible code of conduct, to enter heaven would be a disgrace to the notion of heaven. But for god to allow any of mankind to go to hell, and have those who went to heaven have no choice but to forget those who were fallen while they mindlessly worship god for all his mercy and grace, is an obscene, pitiful, disgrace to the notion of god. ---------------------------------------- 6.8% - Almost there!

Recalling from previous threads... Are you staring at the ground directly below you? ---------------------------------------- 6.8% - Almost there!