Para_Frog

Nice try at complete illusion there Doc. You posted the original vote pre-conference and amendment. The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act 1999 conference report (read: the final bill) passed with a vote of 90-8 in the Senate 362-57 in the House. PA's snipped. Your one warning. - Harvey, BASE 1232 TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA BLiNC Magazine Team Member

Article Sunday, Sep. 21, 2008 How We Became the United States of France By Bill Saporito This is the state of our great republic: We've nationalized the financial system, taking control from Wall Street bankers we no longer trust. We're about to quasi-nationalize the Detroit auto companies via massive loans because they're a source of American pride, and too many jobs — and votes — are at stake. Our Social Security system is going broke as we head for a future where too many retirees will be supported by too few workers. How long before we have national healthcare? Put it all together, and the America that emerges is a cartoonish version of the country most despised by red-meat red-state patriots: France. Only with worse food. Admit it, mes amis, the rugged individualism and cutthroat capitalism that made America the land of unlimited opportunity has been shrink-wrapped by a half dozen short sellers in Greenwich, Conn. and FedExed to Washington D.C. to be spoon-fed back to life by Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke and Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson. We're now no different from any of those Western European semi-socialist welfare states that we love to deride. Italy? Sure, it's had four governments since last Thursday, but none of them would have allowed this to go on; the Italians know how to rig an economy. You just know the Frogs have only increased their disdain for us, if that is indeed possible. And why shouldn't they? The average American is working two and half jobs, gets two weeks off, and has all the employment security of a one-armed trapeze artist. The Bush Administration has preached the "ownership society" to America: own your house, own your retirement account; you don't need the government in your way. So Americans mortgaged themselves to the hilt to buy overpriced houses they can no longer afford and signed up for 401k programs that put money where, exactly? In the stock market! Where rich Republicans fleeced them. Now our laissez-faire (hey, a French word) regulation-averse Administration has made France's only Socialist president, Francois Mitterand, look like Adam Smith by comparison. All Mitterand did was nationalize France's big banks and insurance companies in 1982; he didn't have to deal with bankers who didn't want to lend money, as Paulson does. When the state runs the banks, they are merely cows to be milked in the service of la patrie. France doesn't have the mortgage crisis that we do, either. In bailing out mortgage lenders Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, our government has basically turned America into the largest subsidized housing project in the world. Sure, France has its banlieus, where it likes to warehouse people who aren't French enough (meaning, immigrants orAlgerians) in huge apartment blocks. But the bulk of French homeowners are curiously free of subprime mortgages foisted on them by fellow citizens, and they aren't over their heads in personal debt. We've always dismissed the French as exquisitely fed wards of their welfare state. They work, what, 27 hours in a good week, have 19 holidays a month, go on strike for two days and enjoy a glass of wine every day with lunch — except for the 25% of the population that works for the government, who have an even sweeter deal. They retire before their kids finish high school, and they don't have to save for a $45,000-a-year college tuition because college is free. For this, they pay a tax rate of about 103%, and their labor laws are so restrictive that they haven't had a net gain in jobs since Napoleon. There is no way that the French government can pay for this lifestyle forever, except that it somehow does. Mitterand tried to create both job-growth and wage-growth by nationalizing huge swaths of the economy, including some big industries, including automaker Renault, for instance. You haven't driven a Renault lately because Renault couldn't sell them here. Imagine that. An auto company that couldn't compete with a Dodge Colt. But the Renault takeover ultimately proved successful and Renault became a private company again in 1996, although the government retains about 15% of the shares. Now the U.S. is faced with the same prospect in the auto industry. GM and Ford need money to develop greener cars that can compete with Toyota and Honda. And they're looking to Uncle Sam for investment — an investment that could have been avoided had Washington imposed more stringent mileage standards years earlier. But we don't want to interfere with market forces like the French do — until we do. Mitterand's nationalization program and other economic reforms failed, as the development of the European Market made a centrally planned economy obsolete. The Rothschilds got their bank back, a little worse for wear. These days, France sashays around the issue of protectionism in a supposedly unfettered EU by proclaiming some industries to be national champions worthy of extra consideration — you know, special needs kids. And we're not talking about pastry chefs, but the likes of GDF Suez, a major utility. I never thought of the stocks and junk securities sold by Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley as unique, but clearly Washington does. Morgan's John Mack calls SEC boss Chris Cox to whine about short sellers and bingo, the government obliges. The elite serve the elite. How French is that? Even in the strongest sectors in the U.S., there's no getting away from the French influence. Nothing is more sacred to France than its farmers. They get whatever they demand, and they demand a lot. And if there are any issues about price supports, or feed costs being too high, or actual competition from other countries, French farmers simply shut down the country by marching their livestock up the Champs Elysee and piling up wheat on the highways. U.S. farmers would never resort to such behavior. They don't have to: they're the most coddled special interest group in U.S. history, lavished with $180 billion in subsidies by both parties, even when their products are fetching record prices. One consequence: U.S. consumers pay twice what the French pay for sugar, because of price guarantees. We're more French than France. So yes, while we're still willing to work ourselves to death for the privilege of paying off our usurious credit cards, we can no longer look contemptuously at the land of 246 cheeses. Kraft Foods has replaced American International Group in the Dow Jones Industrial Average, the insurance company having been added to Paulson's nationalized portfolio. Macaroni and cheese has supplanted credit default swaps at the fulcrum of capitalism. And one more thing: the food snob French love McDonalds, which does a fantastic business there. They know a good freedom fry when they taste one. - Harvey, BASE 1232 TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA BLiNC Magazine Team Member

Remind me again, oh learned one... Which of the founding fathers was Muslim, Jewish, and or Bhuddist? I'll stand by. That is where our laws originate. As much as it grinds at the left...we are still pretty much a Christian country. Our primary source of immigration is Mexico, and guess what...they are too. So your pipe dream of total secularism is just that for the next couple of hundred years anyway. 3 cheers for the FSM. You guys rock. - Harvey, BASE 1232 TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA BLiNC Magazine Team Member

You're missing the irony, which I'm certain Dr. K. got. I'll go ahead and add you to the parted hair list I keep of people on here. - Harvey, BASE 1232 TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA BLiNC Magazine Team Member

That’s OK. All college professors are America hating, left wing douchebags who smoke dope, sell our secrets to foreign governments, and usually had their first experience with oral sex at the hand of an abusive stepdad. Oh…just like all Christians are child molesters. Mook. - Harvey, BASE 1232 TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA BLiNC Magazine Team Member

Now that shit is funny! As for the OP...made it through the first 2 lines. Yawn. You and your One Term are getting boring. I agree with Carlos Santana. My mook meter is pegged. - Harvey, BASE 1232 TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA BLiNC Magazine Team Member

It's Washington...c'mon now. How could they NOT fuck it up? At least it's A solution. For now. - Harvey, BASE 1232 TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA BLiNC Magazine Team Member

Interesting piece. The Clarion Fund gets it apparently. Even Jeanne will agree with this one. ~I do so love my job~ - Harvey, BASE 1232 TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA BLiNC Magazine Team Member

34 points. We're all going to be homeless! Who's trying to push "oh shit" scare tactics? Exsqueeze me? See Att. - Harvey, BASE 1232 TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA BLiNC Magazine Team Member

If you bother to read the true definition of the Bush Doctrine, by the guy who coined the phrase in the first place, and who, btw, is not a fan of Palin's... Clicky You'll see that Charlie Gibson didn't even know what the hell he was talking about. Quit buying into the talking points. There were any of 100 ways to answer that question. The conventional wisdom is what we all believe...preemptive action, but on the spot...understandable to wonder which way to answer it. Edit to add: We should also fire up a comparison discussion between that interview and the BS fluff interview Stephanopolis did with Obama. Took any real credibilty ABC hoped to have completely away from the Palin interview. - Harvey, BASE 1232 TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA BLiNC Magazine Team Member

Somebody pinch me. - Harvey, BASE 1232 TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA BLiNC Magazine Team Member

Barbara Koeppel? Investigative reporter and primary contributer to True Blue Liberal? Yeah...nice objective investigative source. Next. - Harvey, BASE 1232 TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA BLiNC Magazine Team Member

Never had it...but it sounds fantastic. - Harvey, BASE 1232 TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA BLiNC Magazine Team Member

Been away Mike and just saw this. Can't begin to fathom. Here if you need anything. That's all I got buddy...I'm at a loss. - Harvey, BASE 1232 TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA BLiNC Magazine Team Member

If one more person says mute point instead of MOOT point... ...or... error of their ways instead of ERR of their ways... ...they get a thumb in the eye. Whew. Glad that's finally out there! - Harvey, BASE 1232 TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA BLiNC Magazine Team Member

Well it harkens back to the Paul Wellstone "memorial." Americans saw democrats, in prime time they were awarded out of a sympathy for the deceased, booing national political figures who attended in a show of respect. Because they were Republican. Then launch into a foaming diatribe vice a memorial. Minnesotans didn't appreciate that. And they lost an election that should have been a shoe-in. Fast forward to this weekend. The press is screwing Obama with their viciousness. The disparity of treatment was stupid. If they had worked more slowly...shown discipline that the left lacks...they could have crushed her slowly perhaps. Now all the piling on has simply pissed people off in the fat part of the curve and drawn them to her. US Weekly shot Obama right in the foot with it's lack of tactical application. Again...as you said...impressions are everything. Headed out on an FTX for a week-ish. Ya'll be good. Go Palin! Out here. - Harvey, BASE 1232 TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA BLiNC Magazine Team Member

Wow. Solid retort. Color me impressed. - Harvey, BASE 1232 TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA BLiNC Magazine Team Member

That sounds nifty and convenient trying to differentiate your whacko fringe from your anti-war majority, however, as opposed to the right who condemns their whackos - the left has always refused to condemn theirs. The country sees the DNC as code pink and Abbie Hoffman, as peopele who shit on the flag and those who die for it. Might be unfair in the modern millieu, but it's a fact. Until you shake that association...you'll never win another national election. - Harvey, BASE 1232 TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA BLiNC Magazine Team Member

Do you and Jeanne even know Tom? Let's just say I do. I number him among my friends. (The 5th of Patron he brought to my wedding scored bonus points) And of all the things I would jump to about him...conservative ain't it. He's atheist and quite moderate politically at most. So my statement stands. I wouldn't call his extremely rare moderating of SC a "balance" of the libs who run this place by any stretch. We could be posting on KOS. It goes back to put down the KY and Cheetos, step away from the computer and try meeting people outside this forum. Ya might learn something. That all you got? Next. - Harvey, BASE 1232 TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA BLiNC Magazine Team Member

The use of a term in a modernly accepted colloquial fashion instead of it's scientifically literal form means I don't know what I'm talking about. Check. Then by all means...change it to times in your translation. You have perfectly reinforced my point about why the DNC can't manage to win a national election. "He used a word out of proper context...ergo anything else he says should be discounted". Instead of actually arguing what everyone else understood as the point. Same as: "They live in the suburbs, believe in God and guns. They must be morons...we don't need their votes." Keep it up. It's done well so far. - Harvey, BASE 1232 TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA BLiNC Magazine Team Member

So you anchor a dialog (ours) to the use of a math term? That smacks of desperation Quade. I know for a fact you're capable of better than that. There are many more less superficial items in my general point that you can shoot holes in. Quit being lazy. - Harvey, BASE 1232 TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA BLiNC Magazine Team Member

How do you figure? I'm a white, middle-class male who believes in God, 25-40, right-leaning, and was undecided. You think I'm in some way unique? Seriously? And thinking this forum is anything but predominantly liberal is just denial. There isn't a single even semi-conservative mod for a little parity. Please dude. That's the best you can come up with in your condescension? - Harvey, BASE 1232 TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA BLiNC Magazine Team Member

No worries - Harvey, BASE 1232 TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA BLiNC Magazine Team Member

You're as bad as CNN at omission Bill. The rest of that statement says "by not voting for McCain" You inferred that meant I would vote for Obama, but as you will see from the beginning of my post, that meant I would NOT vote. Nice attempt. But I would expect better quality control in your retorts. Not resorting to assumption. - Harvey, BASE 1232 TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA BLiNC Magazine Team Member

Namely the graduated corprate tax and the donor regulations she's emplaced. As well as the more trasparent ethics reviews regarding lobbyists. She's pissed off a LOT of Republicans. But maintained an 80% approval rating...because the GOP lost touch with the constituents. And the people love her. Do some Google-age. You might be surprised. Or do the vogue thing and just start slinging shit. She's just some dumb cheerleader anyway right? - Harvey, BASE 1232 TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA BLiNC Magazine Team Member