Lok

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-8577191065626862801&q=De+Gayardon

Patrick De Gayardon footage was unbelivable. I still remember me 9 years before watching with a friend a VHS with Patrick's skydives, plane to plane, wingsuit flying over Grand Canyon..was simply amazing, we were like 'what the hell He is doing???He just flying'.....too bad he died, but will be in our memories for ever. 1 year after Patrick's death I jump for first time out of a C-130 with a round canopy. Loic is incredible skydiver and THE wingsuit god, I have seen his DVD 2 but unfortunately I haven't seen No 1.....hope I'll see it soon...

Cypress can fit in MC-4. in Greek Army special forces ( I have done my national service years before) all MC-4 rigs were with CYPRESS AAD ( military version). I was only statil line jumper, but I had a friend who was HALO/HAHO qualified, and he show me the rig. MC-4 rigs had also RSL but they disconect them in HAHO only jumps.

When I mean Nobody tracks, I mean Nobody tracks before the cloud level at about 5000ft. After this level everybody can track or not and deploy his chute. As far as I know the majority of local jumpers at my homedropzone and me deploy always below 3000ft.....normally 2500ft, sometimes 2000ft. For FS groops 4-way, 8-way, the break-off is at 4000ft sometimes 3500ft. For sure you have some problem with me but I really don't care AT THE MOMENT... Otherwise the problem you have with me, must not push you to give incorrect opinions in this forum. Bear in mind that 'inexperienced' jumpers' following these forums. For all the other comments and people, thank you very much for the English lessons, I much appreciate it. So, if MAY NOT, means NOT, then all the CCI of the 25-26 Skydiving centers-clubs in U.K must go to prison (at least 150 years each), All the Skydiving activities must stopped in U.K right now and for ever, because are ILLEGAL, because if we wait in U.K the skies to clear from clouds, then we must WAIT, wait, wait, WAIT, wait , wait.......and so on.... By the way, the photo in the poster of BPA: http://www.bpa.org.uk/safetydocs/Cloud%20poster.pdf is very funny, because as far as I can see the weather IS PERFECT!!!!

I have seen the poster and also Section 8 of operational manual of BPA: 3.1. Cloud Parachutists may not leave the aircraft if, at the point of exit, the ground between the opening point and the intended landing area is not visible. 'MAY' means that is not mandatory for someone to not jump. In UK if you want to jump frequently, you must jump with Clouds in the skies, which is fantastic and very Funny.

Anyway, the guys who had done chuteless jumps in the past had big @@ for sure, I think need a lot of mental preparation for someone to jump out of an aircraft without parachute, especially if he loves life.

Here in U.K everybody jumps in cloudy weather. Sometimes there are holes through the clouds and sometimes not. But the jumpmaster is typical with the exit separation, and nobody trucks, so the possibility for accident is nearly zero. Also the cloud elevation must be at least 5000ft so everybody have clear view before pull at 2000-2500ft or 5000ft for AFF students and tandems. Is not that dangerous plus is very funny!!

Rule #2: No jokes about or references to pedophilia. None. This thread is done. ~Skymama

Thanks for the vibe, I like make people laughing. The lots of posters ( you mean people that post in this forum) are Bigway and Skreamer!!!!!maybe you have lost the sense of counting. As for the question of this topic I don't think that is silly but I agree with Mike111 and Pendragon, that if there is a Dropzone, that we could drop a stone for our house, this would be perfect!!!!! because we should manage some jumps every day or only weekends even if we working every day. But The question is not silly. No matter what is better for us, there is always the Best Dropzone, and in UK is Langar.

No D-28 and G-92 is the same aircraft, we used in military to refer to these aircrafts as D-28. Greek air force used to operate about 20 of them just for VIP, POST or light transport duties, and rarely for parachuting. They all asquired during 1992-93 and are all ex Luftwaffe. They maybe stil 12 of them operational. For Military Parachuting we used mainly the C-130 for operational reasons. http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?aircraft_genericsearch=Dornier%20Do-28D%2F128%20Skyservant&distinct_entry=true http://hafcphotos.cs.net/view/gp.cfm?photoid=158967&type=2 http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/8000/87mu.gif http://www.greekmilitary.net/Greek%20Troops/eta156ml.jpg http://www.greekmilitary.net/Greek%20Troops/ETA_ALMA.jpg http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/4610/jy030118jt.jpg http://www.army.gr/html/GR_Army/dieuthinseis/DED/DOC/fotografies-video/alejiptvtistes/4r.jpg http://www.army.gr/html/GR_Army/dieuthinseis/DED/DOC/fotografies-video/alejiptvtistes/2r.jpg

I can't understand why you continue to compare Hib with Langar: 10 bunk rooms with 4 single beds - £20 per night total --- 3 bunk rooms with 1 double and 2 singles - £20 per night total --- 1 bunk room with 6 beds - £4 per bed paid individually Those are the prices for bunkhouse in Hib. In Langar there is a bunkhouse room with 20+ beds who everyone can sleep without pay, then there are 6 Bunkhouse rooms with 4 or 6 beds who we used to pay £5 per night. Now we don't pay absolute nothing except if there is a boogie and there is high demand from people to book these rooms. I had two friends when I lived at Coventry, who used to jump at Hib. The D-28 is practically operational only the weekends, and midweek they have been times who nobody was at the dropzone!!!! no pilots, no instructors and the weather was perfect!!!! Stop compared Hib with Langar, Langar is by far the best dropzone in UK and everybody knows it, for this is the by far the busiest. No matter that you have jump in 6 different dropzones at UK, Bigway has jumped in 100 dropzones around the world and Langar as well, and he still believes that the grass at Langar is uncut!!!!! Your objectivity is very questionable, enjoy the parties at Hib!

I start Skydiving and involved in Skydiving activities with Langar skydiving center the last 5 years, the instructors are superb, the best people and skydivers out there. My personal instructor make heroic efforts to learn me skydive properly and keep me in the skydiving. All the people are welcome in Langar to learn to skydive. Otherwise for the experienced jumpers or studend parachutist, In Langar you will find: 1) Many of the BEST AFF, Tandem FS-FF Instructors-coach-organizers-camera team not in U.K, but in the WORLD. 2) Best and most reliable skydiving aircrafts. Skyvan, Beech99, helicopters on boogies. 3) BEST pilots. 4) Best packers with 10000ands of pack jobs. 5) Best Riggers, skydiving shop available, with everything you need. 6) Free coaching in FS,CRW,FF,skysurfing,wingsuit etc 7) Some of the best prices in U.K and slightly more expensive jumptickets than France and Spain......but this is acceptable through Langar is one of few full time skydiving centers in U.k and must be cope with the strange (not bad) British weather during winter. Winter only, from March until November, the people at Langar jump practically every day. Then again accommodation in bunkhouse is nearly free and Bar and cafe shop is the cheapest you can find when in France and Spain you must pay a lot more for accommodation. You must pay for coaching as well and you must pay your airtickets so at the end you pay much more for your jumps ( even in France and Spain jumptickets are 2-5 euros cheaper than Langar). And I forget, Jump tickets in Friday are just £15 or 22 euros,maybe the cheapest you can find in European Union. 8) All jumps from at least 13,000ft but normally are from 14,000-15,000ft. 9) Midweek even with 5 jumpers in the Dropzone, the Caravan goes up, you can easily make 10+jumps per day if you have the money, and there are a few more people in the dropzone. By the way, with 5-7 people on board, Caravan goes to 15,000ft at no time at all . 10) Not mandatory AAD if you are B certificate and above. 11) Welcome all students, for other drop zones or from USA, Spain,France etc. 12) Incredible landing area 13) No other air-activities in the area 14) No restrictions in altitude, higher than normal jumps can be organized any time and this is one reason Langar is the Home of British formation record Brit-100. 15) Best safety record for a so busy dropzone.....top safety, instructors and ground personnel check jumpers all the time. 16) Friendly people around. 17) Nice weather!!!!!!! if you don't bother to have the incredible fun to jump through or around the clouds ( some times). Too bad I am leaving in 6 weeks this country. I do my best to come back at least on the boogies and make 100s of jumps at this dream place called Langar.

No I am not represent Langar here, NO WAY.... I only represent myself and my opinion. This is the reason, that I am speaking for Langar now, at the end, because I am leaving because otherwise people out there would think that I am just advertising.....No WAY dear clever Bigway. I am just a Langar jumper from many and nothing more, and I haven't got any special friendship with any of the Langar friendly staff. So I am afraid you are right for another more time!!!!! And I am still thinking why I must support and speak about British Skydiving scene??? when the native people of this country they try to find any opportunity, to travel abroad and jump at Spain, USA, France etc..... But then again I can say only the truth, and this is that Langar is by far the best dropzone in U.K and one of the best of the world. This is for the aviation part Aircrafts, kit store, skydiving shop, Pilots, Packers, Riggers and some of the Best Instructors and FS-FF coach-organizers in the world. From the non aviation part of Langar, personally I really don't care. Langar skydiving center and the Bedford tunnel put the British skydiving one level up. Hope with your clever sarcasm, send many British skydivers and student parachutist to USA, SPAIN, FRANCE etc skydiving centers for NO REASON.

So maybe a good FIRST step for Bigway is to learn read and understand his native language, because what I said in my previous post is that Langar is one of the best Skydiving Centers in the world, not the best, and nobody knows which the best is?? Langar in U.K is by far the Best, and I will not explain it third time (only with facts not personal interest), everybody knows that Langar is the best center in U.K, no matter that skydivers out there would not like to speak in this forum (for their reason…). There are two centers in France GAP and Lapalisse and one or two in Spain + Aerograd at Russia, then other 5 centers in USA (Deland, Perris, ZPhills etc). I have friends that jump everywhere+ I have read all the reviews from other peoples in this forum……… and they are all brilliant places, then again personally I can only jump regularly at Langar because this is cost effective for me, and I love the place and the people ( but these facts are totally personal). I would never pay £700+ VISA to go from Greece (Athens) to Los Angeles or Florida and after try to find a mode to reach one of these skydiving centers or lose two days from my holidays to just Travel with the airplanes. And is not need for somebody to travel first to all these places and after express his/her opinion. Except if all these reviews and the forum is just crap, then we must stop speaking until we travel everywhere!!!! And rich people like Bigway who had travel around all the dropzones of the earth, and Langar as well is still so fucking clever that he believes that the grass in Langar is uncut!!!!MUHAHAHA hope in your next trip to Langar you’ll be more lucky dear Bigway and find the Landing area with cut grass, we’ll arrange delivery food from Hilton especially for you!!! By the way dear Bigway, I have jumped to 6 different Dropzones, but the 5 of them was when I was in the Army, MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA NICE TIMES free jumptickets, and what airplanes! C-130 Hercules big birds with 4 turboprops 19600 shp and Chinook helicopters, but the jump altitude was crap 900-1200ft and in exercises 500ft!!!! My first real Skydive was at Langar the best skydiving center in U.K and one of the best in the world and the people at Langar learned me to Skydive properly (after a lot of effort) ………and I am so fucking happy because when I first went to Langar I did not Know that was the Best Skydiving center in U.K………..I was very lucky.

Why Langar is the Best dropzone in U.K, I explain it in my first post in this topic, for Moth who asked. Now to your questions : 1) Jump altitude at Langar usually is 13500ft to 14,000ft. Sometimes is 14,500ft or 13,000ft and in the last lift of the day, midweek if they are 7-9 jumpers in the Caravan, we have seen exit altitude of 17,000ft!!!! So really nobody cares about the much advertise 15,000ft exit altitude at Hib, personally I don't care at all for the extra 500-1000ft (???) I am quite happy with the exit altitude at Langar as everybody. 2) Moth lives at London so He will pay extra £20 in fuel to go and come back at Hib than Langar, if he has a car? otherwise with Bus would be a nightmare. Even if he was living in the same distance, he must pay £20 per night in bunkhouse when in Langar is only £5. The weather in Hib is most of the times worst than Langar, especially very high winds, so the change to jump at Langar is much higher. An experienced jumper with his own kit can do 10-15 jumps per day at Langar if he has the money, and there are few people in the dropzone. So the difference in jump ticket price is absolute 0. A trip in Langar will cost to everybody much less than Hib and he'll make more jumps from the same practically altitude. HAHAHAHAHAHA, and YES you are right I end up Looking a bit sad and pathetic, because I just give advice to one Jumper who wants to avoid the London Tandem Factories, and because I am still impreseed with Langar and British skydivers who jump there, 1,5 month before I live this country for ever ( And really I don't care that much If you go to jump at Langar, or Hib or in USA.....). OO and I forget, I never jumped at Hib and I will never jump, because personally (because you Asked me) I am not interest for any reason to Jump at Hib. I have friends who had jumped at various (famous) places in Europe and USA and I had read all the reviews in this Forum. The only place I would like to Jump except Langar and Megara Dropzone (in Greece) is Aerograd Kolomna ( in Russia) and maybe some jumps at Cyprus.

If you have been to Langar only for boogies or to other dropzones again only for Boogies, or one weekend or one week then you can not speak either for any dropzone because you haven't got a clue for any dropzone. And i haven't got any connection with Onasis Family, to travel around the world. But for this is this Forum and we can read the reviews from other peoples, especially thoose who used to jump for many years in the same dropzone, and have a good understanding of the operation. And I forget the grass is cut off in all landing area on Langar, but maybe the one weekend per year you have been to Langar was uncut. And you are right about accommodation and food, is crap and worst than HILTON.....so you are right 3 out of 10 because one good dropzone must have first cut grass and after good facilities!!! As for U.S dropzones, I didn't say that the skydivers in U.S are bad, but if one day I get the 50% in one only discipline e.g. FS from any FS coach at Langar then I'll be very happy, not need to travel to U.S and pay for the Coaching as well. AND THIS TOPIC, was opened from someone to ask which is the best dropzone in U.k? and this Dropzone is Langar by far. The best that they can do the other skydiving centers in U.K is just copy the operation attitude of Langar.

Yes you are right, that Langar hasn't got that good accommodation and facilities, but for my point of view, I really don't care at all if one Dropzone has got nice bunkhouse, restaurant and other entertainment around. Skydiving is an adventure. When I go to Langar I am thinking only if the weather would be ok, and we go to jump. I mean, this year I always listen that Langar has a new block of toilets and showers in operation and bla-bla-bla I really don't care, for me is like not exist that new block. Old toilets wasn't bad at all........New ones are fantastic, but then again even if the new block of toilets-showers did not exist, I would still travel to Langar..... But of course this is what I am care or don’t care and nothing more. So you are right, the majority of people want nice accommodation-facilities as well. But that doesn't mean that Langar is not one of the Best Skydiving centers in the world. Maybe is not one of the Best skydiving business in the world but is still one of the best skydiving centers. I will never travel to USA to pay £600 in Air tickets minimum, £££££ in VISA (if I get it? I am Greek) $$$ in accommodation-rent cars-buses, to just jump from the same altitude as Langar, make the same number of jumps as if I jumped at Langar......and all this because of the facilities or entertainment around the dropzone...NEVER.

LANGAR is by far the best dropzone in U.K and one of the best skydiving centers in The world. The only problem really with this skydiving center is the strange British weather, but if you really like jumping sometimes through the clouds then LANGAR is simply the BEST. Personally I love jump through the clouds. In Langar you will find some of the 1) BEST AFF,Tandem, FS instructors-coach-organizers not in U.K, but in the WORLD. 2) Best and most reliable skydiving aircrafts. Skyvan, Beech99, helicopters on boogies. 3) BEST pilots. 4) Best packers with 10000ands of pack jobs. 5) Best Riggers, skydiving shop available, with everything you need. 6) Free coaching in FS,CRW,FF,skysurfing,wingsuit etc 7) Some of the best prices in U.K and slightly more expensive jumptickets than France and Spain......but this is acceptable through Langar is one of few full time skydiving centers in U.k and must be cope with the strange (not bad) British weather during winter. Winter only, from March until November, the people at Langar jump practically every day. Then again accommodation in bunkhouse is nearly free and Bar and cafe shop is the cheapest you can find when in France and Spain you must pay a lot more for accommodation. You must pay for coaching as well and you must pay your airtickets so at the end you pay much more for your jumps ( even in France and Spain jumptickets are 2-5 euros cheaper than Langar). And I forget, Jump tickets in Friday are just £15 or 22 euros,maybe the cheapest you can find in European Union. 8) All jumps from at least 13,000ft but normally are from 14,000-15,000ft. 9) Midweek even with 5 jumpers in the Dropzone, the Caravan goes up, you can easily make 10+jumps per day if you have the money, and there are a few more people in the dropzone. By the way, with 5-7 people on board, Caravan goes to 15,000ft at no time at all . 10) Not mandatory AAD if you are B certificate and above. 11) Welcome all students, for other drop zones or from USA, Spain,France etc. 12) Incredible landing area 13) No other air-activities in the area 14) No restrictions in altitude, higher than normal jumps can be organized any time and this is one reason Langar is the Home of British formation record Brit-100. 15) Best safety record for a so busy dropzone.....top safety, instructors and ground personnel check jumpers all the time. 16) Friendly people around. I don't know if you have any problem to travel from London to Langar ( about 2 hours with car or 3 hours with bus to Nottingham)...but personally I travel from Brighton ( with bus 7 hours travel) and still I don't even think to go to any other dropzone in U.k or Europe.......... Good Luck

If you think the PAC 750XL only takes 11 then you have it confused with a different aircraft. Carks PAC with 18 on board climbs faster than Nethers' Grand Caravan with 15/16. If you mean the latest version PAC 750 XL, then yes you are right, can carry 16-17 jumpers as much as the Caravan, but on this case the rate of climb is at least 200ft per minute slower than Caravan in any configuration. Caravan can also go at least 5000ft higher (25,000ft serving ceiling) (Full load or not). If you mean the old PAC Cresco (PAC 750XL is a stretched version of Cresco) which can carry only 9 jumpers then this has better rate of climb compared to a fully loaded Caravan with 16 jumpers.

I really don't know, I think the C208b is very popular also, especially in Europe.

With 5 jumpers you are maybe breaking even. I question its ability to match the lift capacity of a super otter or a fast king air. What exactly is "cheap" jet fuel and where are you getting it, cause everywhere we seem to look, jet fuel is fuckin expensive Anyways, the PAC is a more cost effective solution, it is smaller though. Most planes can land safely under loss of power. Yes, we speak about single engine aircrafts here, and personally I don't know many single engine jumpships to have 14-16 jumpers lift capacity. JET FUEL is still cheaper than AVGAS 100LL (taxed aviation gazoline). There is no comparison between the glide performance of High-Wing C208B Caravan and the Low-wing PAC 750.... Caravan is much better in any case and the most cost-efective single engine jumpship.

Ours doesn't. I don't think its as fast as the PACs and Porters I've jumped either (Someone else mentioned the TurboFinist - that's worth a mention during winter months for having a completely draughtproof door. Toasty

Really? I thought the PAC was more efficient? No, is not

I jump at Langar, and the Grand Caravan is the best single engine jumpship as fare as I know. Even with just 5 jumpers in the dropzone midweek, the Caravan will go up. With 9-11 jumpers onboard and with pilots as capable as those at Langar, the aircraft goes to 13,000-14,000ft really fast. With full load of 15-16 jumpers the rate of climb is slower but still better even from twin engine turboprop Skyvan. I am Aerospace Systems Engineer and as fare as I know the Caravan is the best Single engine aircraft, one dropzone can have: Its lift capacity is nearly the same to one twin engine civilian jumpship. It has the most cost effective (low fuel consumption turboprop, burns cheap jet fuel) and reliable engine available. Even in emergency situation, can easily glide and land safely as dragon2 said. The only bad thing is the initial acquition cost, must be over $1,200,000+ various modifications for the various skydiving disciplines and the static line jumpers. http://www.benair.com/Cessna%20Caravan_files/2006%20Caravan%20675%20Specification%20%26%20Description%20SN%20396%20and%20on_1.pdf

There are two drop zones in Greece: 1) Polykastro Dropzone in North Greece in Border with Scopje which I think you are not interest through is more than 300 miles away from Athens. 2) The other one is near Athens less than 20 miles from the Athens International airport. The dropzone is the Military one, when I use to jump when I was soldier. Is open for sport parachutist the weekends. For aircraft they using one leased Grand Caravan from a Cargo company. The dropzone is near the sea and must be the most beautiful Dropzone in the earth. The only bad think is that the jump ticket is 35 Euro ($42), very expensive, but they can’t do better through they leased the aircraft and there is very little interesting in Greece at the moment about skydiving activities. The jump altitude is 10.000ft+. More info you can find here: www.aeroclubmegara.gr http://www.uspa.org/dz/foreign/Greece.htm Send them one e-mail before go to Greece so they can help you or give you direction from the airport to the dropzone: mailto:[email protected] The dropzone: http://www.aeroclubmegara.gr/Images/megara.jpg movies: http://www.aeroclubmegara.gr/Images/Spiliopoulos_tandem.mpg http://www.aeroclubmegara.gr/Images/tandem.mpg Good Luck