Para5-0

It is no wonder so many people are scared to post a question on here. OP asks a sincere question that is concerning him, apparently enough to have him make this effort. Kevin-Most AFFI's and I say most are approachable, just approach it in a positive fashion and he/she will be receptive to your concerns. Very shortly you will be on your own making the decisions on when or how to flare. Every canopy is a bit different so it is not a one all solution. The manual tells us 10-15 feet, we can agree on that. With the student canopies we use I get better results teaching 8-10 feet shoulders and 4-6 feet flare. I often try to give a visual to a student by telling them to picture a white van off ahead of them on landing, at van height come to your shoulders and when they think they can kick me in the head if I were in front of them flare smoothly and push the ground away from them until their vertical speed stops, (I know violent right). I have no idea if this helps but every instructor has a way of trying to teach it. Again, very shortly you will be on your own and can play with it until you perfect it. In 100 or so jumps this will be a non issue and you may even laugh a bit at the minor problems you have encountered. Ultimately, you want to land safely, so if you do not feel comfortable have a chat with your AFFI or maybe ask another instructor on the side as a harmless question. and bouncing it around here is not a bad idea if you keep in mind everyone on here was born as an AFFI and never encountered any problems along the way.

Gathereing data in theory seems like a great idea, and I support it. Only problem is data is only as good as the data you receive. If everyone does not participate it will be skewed. or more importantly if a tandem parachute manufacture knows the data is used to determine compatibility they might not encourage participation. It would have to be a requirement with repercussions if not done. Secondly- TI continuing education is an excellent thing and I also support this whole heartily. There are some new topics that some TI's have no clue about. I recently discussed a bag lock and some of the incidents where it didnt release as quick or smooth as it should have, risking entanglement. We spoke of an RSL disconnect prior to release and manually assist release before going to reserve. Albeit it was just a discussion and involved numerous 10,000 plus instructors. Some of the newer guys had no clue what we were speaking about. Once some guys get that rating they get into a routine and forget things change sometimes based on what is happening in the tandem world. I wouldnt mind a Tandem I/E standardization get together either. Maybe even an online blog just for I/E's to exchange some ideas and thoughts. It would be great if UPT had it on the website with user name and password access to it, so we can bounce things around and get up to date information on any incidents that occur around the country or world. That scary word standardization is not a bad thing.

Diab, Long story short, level 7 student right in front of me deployed into a bag lock. I fell with him until my hard deck. watched him in freefall until eventually a reserve appeared. He did beat the AAD but not by much. The thing that just amazed me was, he had no clue how close he just came. It was no big deal to him and he even laughed at it. I tried and tried to explain but I wasnt getting through.

Does that count holding on to your handles because you know they cost a few bucks? lol I would be lying if I said, I wasnt pissed about having to cutaway, on my first jump after repack last summer. I was in fact yelling DAMMIT as I did it, based solely on financial costs of it. Although it didnt influence the response. I think if you have had a few cutaways you have a bit more wherewithall as it is ocurring as opposed to a students with their first cutaway.

I think when it comes to Tandem canopies (Sigma) it goes a bit deeper than that.

I agree.

Similar to the new age BSR, stating we must abide by manufacturere requirements for age. There is a tandem rig (Basic) from over seas that has no age requirement. So if you order one of those you can jump with 16,17 year olds without violating the BSR. Scary, but if Eclipse removed their age requirement their rig might see an increase in sales. Is that insider trading?lol

ibx, I concur with taking the positive out of the cutaway. My first cutaway was at 4800 jumps. Leading up to that I was frieghtened that I would freeze or not act correctly, or whatever. The fear came from a reocurring dream that I had over and over where I just couldnt reach my handles when needed. After I finally had a cutaway and it went exactly how I practiced for many years, I was relieved. In fact I havent had that dream in some time. So if I have it tonight I will be calling you. lol people say relax, relax, relax... the only problem is your jumping out of a plane it is hard to relax, this is scary shit sometimes. The only analogy that might help is if you stick your hand out of the car window while driving; it is easy to go up and down and play with the wind if you use the wind to steer your hand. If you put your hand out there and hold a fist and dont move it, you really wont have much steerable control, and it takes more strength. So, let your body use the relative wind to keep stable, be that loose hand out the window. Good luck, and congrats on handling your first emergency correctly.

To the best of my knowledge this is not being considered by the BOD. I have heard concerns similar to this thread but nothing officially. On the other hand, I know we are currently addressing canopy education and looking at every incident closely to see if we can do anything better in the way of education. I know that we are currently discussing requirring a canopy proficiency card to obtain a B license. This is just being discussed and nothing is set in stone. I think membership input on that topic is critical. I am opposed to any knee jerk reaction to any one incident without a full debrief and fact gathering mission. Just my thoughts.

I know that Bill Booth is an advocate for this so that the AAD's can be programed to fire at 1100-1200 agl. He suggests the extra time is needed in case of a reserve pilot chute delay. I was told a 1 second delay could mean the difference between life or death. One problem I see is all instructional deployment altitudes will have to be raised so instructors do not bust the deck. That will take valuable ff time away from students. Now instructors are requirred to have a student open by 3500. Small cesna DZ's will not be happy about it. Like all other knee jerk reactions maybe we need to step back and really see what the issue is. Maybe put it out to the membership to get a better feel. Once we go down that road it will be hard to travel back. If you think of any AFF evaluation course; the instructors to be are tracking away by 3400 or so feet and deploying right around the 2000 hard deck. I do not like being down there anymore than most but the time may come when you have to. It would be hard to have a BSR that had exceptions to it. Keep in mind if you choose to deploy higher you can absolutely do that. Most skydivers I know do indeed deploy between 3-3500, myself included.

Where I see a major problem is when the manufacturer requires that only his components be used to jump. For example the main must be a sigma for a UPT manufactured tandem. That will be a huge issue IMO. There are many many TI's using Icarus tandem canopies. I know for a fact this is on the horizon. The problem will be if something happens and you do not have their main, you and the DZ will be on the hook. I spoke to an Icarus rep at PIA about this and the non chalant answer was, "they have been threatening that for years." Well that doesnt help much does it.

He stated that he wants the bsr for hard deck to be raised. That will allow AAD's to be set to 1100-1200 agl. At 750 BB stated a 1 sec delay could be fatal on a reserve.

I just found this thread and couldnt help but make a comment: I cant believe it is coming up on 10 years since this incident. I was not a member of DZ.com when it happened and wasnt privy to any of the reports or videos. I first learned of the incident by the photographs in Parachutist on a memorial page. I recognized one specifically of John jumping from a balloon. The reason I recognized it; I not only took the picture but I was on the balloon with him. I even have a full video of us climbing to 4000 feet and laughing the whole way up. As usual John has that white smile and zest for life that I can only wish on others. He was up pre dawn, dragging me out of bed to make the 5am balloon. In fact I traveled to Quincy, Ill with John to partake in the infamous world freefall convention. We rented a big camper and we hit the road. I still rmember the great times and most importantly what a unbelievable guy John was. I cant express properly, in words anyhow, how much this has changed my skydiving career. I always said, and continue to preach if a guy of this guality, experience, and athletic ability could die then so could I. I used this tragedy to help me through the last 10 years and to instruct as many new jumpers as I can to understand the risks and importance of being at the top of your game. Always minding that even if you are, like John, bad things could still happen. I was so sad and deeply hurt by this that even typing this is hard. I just wanted to say where ever you are my friend I hope you are having a blast. You are so missed. Blue Skys my friend.

or use soft links and just pull the slider down over the slink on the front and rear risers. It works well, every now and then I collapse it.

If there is movement it usually is to the left in my experience. BUt the altimeter checks usually cause a right turn because they check it by moving their hand or do what I call a watch check. Proper ground training at the beginning usually cures this before it starts.

That is usually when you realize how much you have spent so far. You are so busy having fun you didnt notice your credit card balance going through the roof. Answer) Get coach rating. Have slot paid for. Problem solved.

I jumped with him one weekend last summer before he went to Canada for a race, at Skydive Long Island. I have many pics and some vid. In fact I did a recurrency course and jump with him.

Wow, Nice shot. That will wake youup better than a coffee or redbull huh. Ihave been hit with it a few times and had it catch my arm once for a quick sec but man pull time is a experience all unto itself. Had a cat d throw out once and it went into some sort of bag lock streamer in front of me. After video review, the toggle release and the cover opened up prior to deployment. When the student threw out the toggle wrapped the bridle of the dbag causing a mess. Stayed with him until 2000 or so with no options to help. Thank God he intiated EP.s and it release without further incident. Took break stopped shaking, had a iced T and calmed down. THis shit is stressful.

+1 DSE will help you out, I agree. This is a completly different view which might confuse you a bit but it cant hurt. Sometimes instructors keep pounding the concept of relax in freefall over and over. The student gets a bit frustrated because he/she does completely relax and almost lets their body go limp. I have seen on a few occasions a student like this. The result is the wind tends to fly the student. Meaning they are so relaxed their body just goes the way the wind takes them. With these few students I try to explain to remember you fly the wind, not the opposite. so if you want to stay on a heading or turn in a direction put in the effort to make it happen, a little confusing if someone is giving you the relax signal. It is your skydive mental preperation and giving proper input will go a long way. If you can see yourself doing it in your head, then you can do it in the air. Note: This may or may not even apply hard to tell without being in the air with you. Good luck.

Check this out, PD can do it. http://www.facebook.com/#!/album.php?id=255892996292&aid=186450

Northeast jumper here for past 20 years and all I can say is I hear ya. Even when april rolls aroung it usually is windy as hell, which sucks because your broke and you tend to jump in less than perfect conditions just so you can make a dam mortgage payment. okay sorry back to you. You know just a thought, maybe if DZO's gave tandem and AFFI's a raise once in a dam century it would help. Anyone notice the jump tickets keep getting more expensive but the dam pay has stayed the same since the day I started. Great now i'm in your shoes now. I am outta here. lol

Bill, Keep in mind if you guys didnt keep it going, it may not be here for us to enjoy as you did; so for that we thank you. Love the book idea, I would buy it for sure. Not a day goes by that I dont think of how fast it is going by; albeit only 20 years in the sport it seems like yesterday I was sitting in the plane with my two best friends and some thing strapped to my stomach, I think you guys used to call a belly reserve. LOL Pull, Punch, throw or something like that. Thanks for the post.

SS, I would be absolutely happy to divuldge my voting on this topic or any other, as I am on Safety and Training (the commitee that was tasked with this issue), and yes it was brought up that this may or may not be a safety issue). This was debated for hours and we heard from manufacturers that were present, instructors, S&TA's, and DZO's. I voted "No" in commitee based soley on the fact I was not sure if the manufacturers would grant waivers for an underage tandem. I personally am involved in Make A Wish jumps and jumps for terminally ill kids. I know this would effect many across the country that participate in similar charity type jumps. If USPA grants a waiver and yes it is waiverable by a full BOD vote; and the manufacturer does not allow it at all. All TI's would be risking their manufacture rating. This could be a very serious problem, especially for I/E's. After I spoke with the two main manufacturers (Ted Strong and Bill Booth) personally, and was ensured that they would allow any USPA granted waiver to take place without risking the TI's rating, I changed my vote at the full BOD to "Yes". Keep in mind, at this juncture this BSR ONLY references age. It does not say all manufacture requirements. So for example if Strong requires frap hats and altimeters and you take a tandem without them you are not violating this bsr. To answer why not the legal age of majority? Some states the legal age of majority is 21, some 19. So across the country making a legal age of majority will be problematic. Keep in mind: the manufacturers wanted an 18 years of age across the board to include AFF, Static, and IAD. That was not acceptable and this BSR ONLY refers to Tandems. So yes the 16 year old can participate in AFF. I understand that sounds ridiculous, but by the numbers tandems make up the majority of student jumps. You may not agree and I understand your point of view, it was represented well. If you have any specific questions feel free to PM me or call. I am definately not replying to ensight a debate arguement, there are valid points on both sides. I am posting to try to clarify the thought process and bring some confidence back to the system. This was the first S&T committee meeting I have sat in on and I will say that all 7 members and advisors gave this topic 100 % and every view point was represented. This is not a knee jerk reaction that was taken lightly the manufacturers have been asking for this for a long time and deserve an answer one way or another. This is my pesonal account of the topic, and I am posting to inform the best I can. Thanks, Rich Winstock

I am still in Reno at PIA but I will give a full brief of the thought process when I can. As far as age of legal majority: it varies from 16-21;and in one state you need a H.S. degree. The manufacturers wanted it to be age of legal majority, but were happy with what came out of the BOD. A 16 year old can still do AFF, IAD, or Static in the U.S.;but make no mistake about it the manufacturers want this changed as well. Note: If a US TI uses a out of country tandem rig that is tsod and has no age requirement, the BSR is not being violated. Waivers will continue to be accepted for special underage circumstances, and the manufacturers will allow the jump with the waiver in place. IE: Make A wish or certain terminal situations.

Canopy course.