FCipollo

All fair points but I think this thread has gone down the wrong path. Who cares what any of any of this is called or how old it is. We've already established none of this is new. Yes there are people in certain dropzones that do it for sure. The point I am making is that there is a lot more to it than doing some kind of loose track/flock/angle whatever dive once or twice a day that is far from tight, is relatively slow and disorganized, etc. and then saying "yeah, we angle fly and it's easy". The other point I was trying to make is that it's all flying at the end of the day and incorporating all angles in more jumps is something amazing (even if old) that most people neglect. So to brush it off to the side and say, "it's easy, just go do x, y and z and then have a beer" is a very dismissive attitude. If you did a group vertical dive and people are not head level and kind of close but not really, you wouldn't say it was a successful dive. So why would a track/angle/whatever jump not have the same standard? The current mentality seems to be a rush to go the tunnel, get super good vertically and then treat anything else as a gimmick when it's that "gimmick" fueled through experimentation that led to the more quantifiable vertical stuff that you do today. For someone like the original poster who is clearly interested in the whole range of flying, we should be encouraging all of it. Every angle from 0 to 90 requires a ton of practice and deserves respect.

To be specific with that statement, I mean it's far enough from the norm that it's hard to find people to learn from and to push things with together.

Hi MChamp... There's a lot more to talk about than can fit in this thread but I'll throw out a few points for you to consider. There are a lot of different opinions when it comes to this kind of flying. In my opinion, tracking/angle flying/etc or any kind of flying where there is actual movement (rather than just falling straight down a tube) is the purest kind of flying. Being able to incorporate that movement into vertical jumps and vice versa is what makes for the fullest experience in the air and expands the boundaries of what we do and what we can fantasize about and then execute on. I haven't been around 20 years but have been fortunate enough to fly with a few of the pioneers and the best in both the vertical and "tracking" (tp simplify it) camps. Most of them that have been around long enough will tell you, and logically so, that freeflying started as an escape from belly-flying and the 2-dimensional plane...due to better gear and a bunch of other factors. Playing around with tracking, changing angles, going vertical, then going slightly off vertical and moving, moving fast, smooth and going into a fast flat track, banking to one side and into a head-down carve, etc. The harmony of combining all of that is a completely different sensation from staying just in one spot and it was the origin of the more standard freeflying today. Unfortunately, it's also not a very quantifiable mode of flight because there are so many different interpretations of it and very few people (outside of Europeans and a few people here like me) that do it. Flying vertical and hitting 20 points in a standard freefly routine or participating in some record head-down jump somewhere instead is a very quantifiable thing. You're either stable, head-level and in control in a group of 20 30 40 people going 90 degrees towards earth or you're not. So it's very black and white. Flying, as I like to refer to tracking/angles/etc., instead does not have a state record and does not have a "clear" path for what it takes to progress. For a head-down record, for example, a new skydiver will know what it takes...it's what everyone practices at the dz every weekend, it's what people spend hours doing in the tunnel...all so you can go and fly safely and smoothly with a bunch of other folks that followed the same steps. That's not the case with angle flight. There's a lot more open-endedness to it and therefore it's not for everyone. If you ask most people at a dz in the US to do a track dive, it'll likely be slow. People will be arched, they will be sinking but thinking they are really tracking. There will be someone doing what he thinks is "atmonauti" and staying a little ahead of the leader and he'll think he is moving fast and thinking he is flying an angle. So per Simon's post, I can see how people assume it's easy to do and there's nothing to it. Now watch this video and tell me if that is all there is to it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-GdLZ96xCg . That is Ippo Fabbi. A real master of flying and fortunately a teacher of mine. Those jumps involve everything from real flat tracking, to steep angles, to head-down, etc. That is real flying...in my opinion. I think one important thing to consider is that there isn't just one angle that is the "correct" angle. Atmonauti for example is one particular body position and generally exists within a specific range of angles. If you consider head-down a 90 degree angle to the earth and belly flying 0 degrees (parallel) to the earth, "angle" flying is really anything in between. The positions can either involve keeping your body straight or bending your knees, etc. (I could spend pages talking about this but I'll keep it short here). It can also be done at different speeds but generally to be able to move smoothly and change orientations without giving up speed or control or flow, you need to keep a constant level of pressure across your whole body as you move from flying on your belly, to your side (yes, you can fly on your side) to your back or whatever combination of that. If you're not head-down yet, playing with tracking (proper tracking) and slowly bringing that angle steeper and steeper will get you more and more comfortable with being vertical. So that when you do hit that 90 degree head-down sweet-spot, you'll know it because you will have gotten comfortable with the whole range. If you're really interested in learning what angle flying is really about, I'd be more than happy to show you or teach you. I'm always learning myself by the way. What makes it harder in the US is that no one does it but it doesn't matter. You fly how you want to fly. In my experience over the last couple of years, anyone that gets a taste of what angle flying is really about, even people who've spent years head-down, are ecstatic when they reach the ground...almost as if they had just done their first tandem. As Simon said, it's not a new thing but people have stopped experimenting in the rush and narrow-mindedness to just be on their heads and nothing else.

Apologies in advance for sounding irreverent but for all this talk of dzo's, drinking from hoses, nylons and olive trees, isn't the most important thing what happens for those few minutes between 13.5k and 0k. I know that's all I care about. The problem is folks who forget about that piece and start to focus on the surroundings/setup/etc. Was the sky different in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s? Probably not. So, instead of analyzing who does what, says what, what they wear, how canopies are sold and what dzo's think of to make money, maybe you'd be better just taking a deep breath, closing your eyes on the way over to the plane and opening them up once you're at the door.

That was at jumps #5 and #78. By 150, I was gracefully caressing each blade of grass as I blazed a trail straight to the packing area. STEP OFF HOPSCOTCH.

You're a threat to yourself, your container and the patch of grass and trees directly beneath you. Do yourself a favor and take up professional tee ball as a sport or maybe join a book club. http://www.teeballusa.org/

Sweet!

Thank you :)

And here it is again. I do not remember where I was when this picture was taken. I've been to so many dropzones. And yes, there were gaps and this was the edge of the puffy little clouds.

Funny. I was just relaxing and pretending to ride a horse.

Just had to share. High pull at sunset at The Ranch, NY. Photo by the one and only Hal Moore.

Usually older women by 2-5 years even though I've pushed beyond that. People have always considered me mature for my age and older women have always looked at me more because of that. I think girls my age or younger look and think, "he doesn't drink, he doesn't party hard...he's boring while more mature women think, "he has his $hit together and he's fun".

I think it's time you start going to Crosskeys as you will surely have to watch your back up in Gardiner.

It was about time. Yes, colorful. 2 jumps on it. It will get dirty at some point.

DEFY Gravity !!! PFFFHHHHH.