Jiggs

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Everything posted by Jiggs

  1. Jiggs

    Petra vs. Sofia

    Petra Page is a closed facebook group, many good pilots on there. Get the Petra, better all rounder than the Sofia and it is easier to fly with multiple canopy / wingsuit formations Yes, I have done several hundred XRW on the Petra. You don't need any mods The question is mostly about size and loading (and more importantly what you can safely use). I run my 67 (from 3 to 3.5) depending on group "Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain." "In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus
  2. Jiggs

    Lifespan of sail

    77 has 300ish It similar is like brand new, but it has not be trashed like the 67 "Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain." "In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus
  3. Jiggs

    Petra vs. Sofia

    Suggest you post this on the Petra page not here, you would get way more info there than here. Re-reading that, do you not have either wing? "Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain." "In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus
  4. Jiggs

    Lifespan of sail

    I have two Petras (different sizes). My 67 has something like 1000 jumps on it and is pretty clapped. It has had a very hard life, jumps on sand and very abrasive landing areas, it has patches and is a lovely grey colour (desert white). I can confirm that it definitely performing worse than when it was new. I can't get the same recovery I used to get it and it feels like it stops flying a little sooner. On the plus side it is even better for XRW The material itself does not show any signs of flaking I have also had 3 other sail canopies, two jvxs (79s that I owned at the same time) and an experimental wing that did not go into production, they were all built with different versions of sail. One only lasted 300-400 jumps before it was very clapped out. The first generation sail canopies were probably the longest lasting, it lasted more than 1k jumps with no real change in performance - but was ridiculous in size (and weight). The new sail is pretty awesome (all things considered). "Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain." "In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus
  5. Hi, We have been using a set of G9s (or G9xs) for XRW and formation swooping for the last 3 years, mostly we have used it with 2ways, but on some bigger stuff we have four units connected. I seem to recall there is the option of getting up to ten people connected but it was just to much of a hassle. We both use G3 cookie helmets because of the microphones and cutting down on the wind noise. Mostly the work very well and provide us with clear communications in the aircraft, to exit, through the skydive and through our respective landings. We do however have less freefall noise than most people unless we are flying dynamic (much faster airspeed). This speed is a little less than a traditional flat skydive, it is very hard to hear when flying head down. I also use them on selected students when I am running canopy courses and want to jump / communicate with jumpers. They are absolutely fantastic for clear in air communication and make the skydives so much more fun. I get bored when we don’t use them for XRW We can communicate from a fairly long distance, the range is very good – I usually take a 7-8 second delay from the aircraft (think the vertical and horizontal separation) and we can still usually hear each other. The main problems that we have had with them are the following; • Sometimes it randomly goes to radio mode and instead of talking we are listening to a radio station. This does not tend to happen on the jumps, but in aircraft. It can a real pain when this happens on jump run though. • The units can be a real bastard to pair – particularly if you are adding in new units or removing others. Sometimes it works straight away other times no luck – even if it feels like you are doing the same thing. We always do this on the ground well before going on the jump – it is incredibly frustrating at times. • It is a small snag hazard, but far less than most cameras • It is one more thing that you can lose on openings • They should not be used by just anyone – think extra distractions, more gear to check I love using them, but we use them for something very specific – I don’t think that there is much use for regular skydiving. Once they are setup and working, it is gold. Battery life is pretty good as well "Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain." "In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus
  6. Jiggs

    Recovery Arc vs. Wind Speed

    Zero difference for canopy. What is different is your perception of the rollout point. You have a different visual picture, as your ground speed is different When you get more experienced, you will build up your sight picture in different conditions. Trust your turn mechanics (assuming you have a good one), your heights should not change (nor timing of turn). E.g. at the last world meet with mega headwinds there were some competitors turning over the gate and I vaguely remember someone going from the 2nd marker (e.g. behind the course) "Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain." "In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus
  7. Jiggs

    KA2 and Crossfire3

    It depends............ It's a bit about the person and what they are currently doing, as well where they want to get to and how many jumps they are going to do. Then we make a plan from there. Not to mention the biggest thing is how well they are doing on their current wing! For many people that ask 'what canopy I should I get next?', the answer is: 'a consistent turn mechanic'. From XF2 I would get many people to go for a katana, a few them directly to something more swoopy - (e.g. JFX) - it just depends on the individual and WL. If they are already around 2 and doing larger HP turns well, that opens it up more. If they have a WL of 1.4 the answer is not going to be 'get a small velocity'! "Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain." "In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus
  8. Jiggs

    KA2 and Crossfire3

    Hi, Recovery cycle is a misnomer and you should not use in trying to explain performance of wings. It is a misleading generalisation that is more harmful than good. The concept you are trying to explain is the recovery arc, this differs by wing, size, loading, mechanic, roll speed, body position and amount of energy generated. The important thing for people to understand is how this combination of factors will lead to length and (for lack of a better term) strength of the recovery arc. This is why the combination of some wings, loading and mechanics are not the greatest for swooping. While I can alter the recovery arc of (via turn mechanic, etc) this may not be a good choice. This is best discussed with a coach around their particular canopy, turn mechanic, skill set, goals, etc. What you are hitting on in terms of progression is that crossover (danger!) area that covers getting some swoop performance from a less aggressive wing to asking a lot from a 'non swoopy' wing versus downsize/platform change to a more appropriate, swoop friendly wing (that may be above experience level / skill set). Now that is a very good discussion around a problem that has not been addressed and is possibly the gap in canopies "Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain." "In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus
  9. Jiggs

    turning the wrong way?

    Okay – cool. Running through your points, when you are learning a new mechanic and sight picture it can be difficult to visualise and understand what you are doing as well as the impact on placement (not to mention the actual mechanic). That is why coaching and getting good information at the start is so important (and an aid to longevity) Consistency is also important, you need to learn to accept your mistakes and accept when you have made a mistake in the turn. Accept the mistake (get the data from it and see what it does to your recovery and positioning). Then you will learn from that mistake. If you are always changing the turn because of the mistakes, you will never have consistency. E.g. adding more variables does not help you solve particular problems, much easier to isolate 1 at a time. Oh turns are not ‘generally’ different in comp (other than guaranteeing the gates); I just meant that the turn of most people who compete is a lot more aggressive with a very strong rollout (and smaller margin for error) as opposed to more casual DZ swooping. E.g way less carvey more snapping hard on the line Get more coaching – you will love it. Competing is awesome and you will learn heaps Ohh the progression is turn mechanic, heights, accuracy. If the step earlier is not consistent, the later will not be Don’t’ waste time doing a different turn (hell even a different direction) as you don’t have your primary nailed. It is kind of like working on freeflying, FS and CRW at the same time. You are not going to be good at any of them. Do one thing, do it consistently, do it well. After that you can muck around with other stuff "Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain." "In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus
  10. Jiggs

    turning the wrong way?

    Your original post was about turning the wrong way - this is a bigger red flag. Without coaching you are more likely to make mistakes and develop bad habits that will take longer to get rid of if you want to compete (Edit to add) - it also makes you less predictable and increases your risk (and the risk of others) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I don't agree with the height comments of other posters. Height is dependent on the mechanic (and time to complete), the wing, loading, density altitude, etc. As long as the wing has time to recover it may be fine. Also for comp turns tend to be sharper rather than carvey that people use in normal dz swooping FWIW a 450 on my 67 petra is from 1350. On my 82 leia it is 950. I think when I was doing 270s I had a velo90 and it was around 750 feet, maybe 800 on the 84 but I don't remember. IMO - Without seeing your recovery arc and turn mechanic no one could say what is appropriate. I think the more relevant thing is the time of the recovery arc at the end of rotation (back on gate picture). Otherwise we are just making generalisations "Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain." "In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus
  11. Jiggs

    turning the wrong way?

    Ding ding ding - winner! To the OP - if you can't figure out the right way to turn or how many rotations you are going to do, you are doing too much. Like your judgement, your placement and turn mechanics must be fairly crap / inconsistent Get some coaching – I would also question the utility/complexity of 450s versus the ease and placement of a 270 It’s hard to judge your level without seeing you fly, but if you are asking this – it is probably a pretty good bet. It’s great that you want to progress and do more, but one of the things that takes the most time to develop is judgement and building up a good sight picture. Would suggest that you focus on that with an appropriate coach to progress – doing your own thing tends to build in many bad habits that take even longer to address! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I have only seen one guy add an extra rotation (a full 360) on a training camp, he almost got kicked off the DZ when people realised that he did not realise that he did an extra rotation (and almost went in). SO on the plus side you are way up on him! That said, to his credit, he turned around his headspace, did the training and is now a respectable pilot. "Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain." "In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus
  12. Jiggs

    Leia vs VK

    At what altitude (and density alititude) was this recorded? This is not corrected for winds aloft? How was this recorded? Charless - while I don't have many jumps on my Leia (82) I would say that it is more 'floaty' than either my JVXs (79) or velo (84) of a similar size. It flies closer to my Petra than either of the two earlier wings. In full flight it is definitely more ground hungry than the earlier generation wings, but you can fly them slow and swoop them long. FWIW - I think in terms of steepness of trim it is Petra>Peregrine and probably Leia>VK "Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain." "In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus
  13. Hey, We have found the best thing is to set a benchmark of vertical speed as a starting point - for us we use 35mph vertical as that benchmark for the canopy side of things. It gives the ws a decent range. Using a benchmark also helps people to figure out if they are in the window to play with others. We originally tried to work out a list of what canopies would work but there are so many variables. We therefore just went with a this speed works well, do what you need to do to fly at this speed. Canopies have very different glide ratios (duh). Size for size, the petra is the steepest, followed by the peregrine, then the leia, velo and the JVX (can't comment on VK). E.g. me on a 67 petra at 2.9 outsunk my teammate on a 71 penguin (3.1) who outsunk ve79 (3.2) who outsunk JVX69 (3.4 or 3.6) On my 67 Petra I can load as low as 2.8 and still fly with a few people (that is my unleaded exit) Type, then size seems to be more important than absolute loading, you can chuck on a lot of weight and you dont get so much gains in vertical descent. (I have flown with up to 32kgs on a 69 @3.8 - I wear 6kgs on my petra @ 3.1 for a higher descent speed). The gains from more weight you see more in the forward speed. When we were doing bigger mixed formations, I would drop my lead and others would lead up. Basically if it is larger or a less ground hungry type, you are going to need to add some more loading (which will only make up for a marginal difference). Body position and leaning on fronts also helps Less drag is also appreciated by the WS pilots FWIW - Woody's Aura is slightly more than 50% of the size of my canopy. - I don't think it means anything "Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain." "In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus
  14. More lead will do bugger all for the vertical descent, it will make you slightly faster forward. From past experience, even chucking on heaps of lead does not gain you that much on the vertical side of things. The things that I am seeing 1. You guys don't have enough a range to fly together well. You are more of a flypast stage. As your ws learns to fly the suit better will help with range, e.g. looks like he is flying at his max lift which is faster than your forward so your best outcome is an overshoot (or collision at worst) 2. You are changing the heading frequently when you look around or move your arms. You need to focus more on being base and not shimmying around. This is much easier to do with the new wings as they are far more responsive to weightshift. Fly a heading and stick to it, makes it easy for the ws 3. You can try and alter your body position so that you are not flying as flat – not sure that this will make enough difference for you. Only tend to use this for v small changes 4. Keep the approach to the same quadrant, don’t let ws get creative and try and close from the horizontal Some other comments; You should definitely just focus on flying together rather than grips. This will help the WS develop their range as well. You need to work on this before you can progress. It will take time, it will happen, no need to rush it – more important to learn fundamentals and have good process and skill set rather than just: "we touched"! IMO 79 is kind of big Don’t fuck up "Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain." "In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus
  15. "I do occasionally jump with lead, but it makes me feel fat, ha-ha" Harden up! Nothing like 32 kgs of lead under a 69 canopy to make it go fast "Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain." "In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus
  16. Disagree with this advice! Maybe go on a swoop course first, talk with a coach, see where your technique is at, what your goals are for the future and what a reasonable downsize approach would actually look like. You might be able to skip a wing size or two, or borrow some of the wings along the way. Lightly loaded velocities feel like dogs (and not in a good way), but just because you are lightly loaded does not mean that you should skip all the sizes between. Maybe 1 but not 3. If you have been happy with the 97 for the last few years, why not keep at it unless there is something specific you are not getting from it. If you want to go further, coaching first then make downsize plan. While you are lightly loaded a 97 is still a small wing and quite responsive. Here is an idea - try some lead! I fly with 6kgs all the time so I am at my competition weight. It makes a considerable difference. With your size you should be able to wear up to 16kgs "Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain." "In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus
  17. Jiggs

    My first XRW jumps

    Hi, We are writing up a set of recommendations for XRW for both wingsuits and canopy fliers with our national federation (APF). When we get it sorted out, will be happy to share. This is a big can of worms - sooner or later people will go in, so at least this will provide some basic guidance A couple of things – the “ease” of this has improved a lot in the last 3-4 years with advances in canopy and wingsuit design. This means that it is in more reach of more jumpers which has pro’s and cons. The big thing to realise, this is a great new way to kill each other. Most people don’t appreciate this When we do first jumps we suggest people do them with experienced pilots so that there is “no surprises” and that we can all fly at a common platform. E.g. we did a number of jumps at farm with new people in small groups with 1 experienced CP & WS to start them off. This seems to work very well. Reading about it is not the same as getting coached We would also limit the size of jumps (and complexity) No dynamic style jumps until they get good and are super heads up, etc "Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain." "In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus
  18. To the OP: Kudos for taking the time to ask the question. Talk it through with a qualified canopy coach, go through your current landings and goals ( as well as currency, training plan, etc) to determine what the best approach will be. This way you can get a view on what a potential progression looks like, timing and the ability to improve your skills. There is definitely a limit of what you can “safely” achieve with a Sabre 2 – particularly the sizes that you are talking about. You sound like you have a long way to go before you max out your current wing so the answer might not be what you expect For what it is worth: Stay on same canopy but get coaching Then downsize same canopy Then maybe change canopy type Pobrause: Good info – but; Are you saying you swoop 80+ metres with gates into wind at a WL of 1.4? Or you are using a very different way of measuring swoop distance "Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain." "In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus
  19. Jiggs

    S-turns on final

    Hi TK, Like your explanation and guide to use on the coaching side of thing for jnr jumpers. One question, for example 7 – I am guessing that you also explain to jumpers the problems that this kind of approach can cause to others in the stack? E.g. less predictable, it takes up more of the space of the landing area (or lanes within the landing area), etc When you get jumpers to try this, how do you propose they do it? And not mess with other people? Do you just limit the pass numbers on the hop and pop? (I would be a bit reluctant to propose this on a course with a lot of low time jumpers with similar loadings) And thanks for hosting the WM – it was good event! "Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain." "In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus
  20. Jiggs

    Valkyrie 67 demo first jumps

    The one in the corner is funny "Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain." "In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus
  21. Why is it that most people that downsize aggressively (or are looking to downsize aggressively) look to justify their decisions based on other people? The best approach to decide when you should downsize should be based on the following two questions: 1. Why do I want to downsize and what benefits do I think I will get from downsizing? 2. Have I had this conversation with my canopy coach and what do they think of this idea against my current skill set and goals? From my experience, what is important is time on the wing – the more you have on the wing the more consistent you are at developing and maintaining power. The skills you develop from long experience on a wing is key to progression of skill set. E.g. not having a bunch of time on any wing means that you don’t develop/build the skills that will carry you through your next canopy. My Sabre 150 helped me learn the basics of swooping, my Sabre 2 taught me about 270s and landing on rears, etc. It also can take longer to “get” certain things or size changes. E.g. I took me 200 or so jumps to get good performance out of an 84, coming from a 90velo. It took 300 or more jumps to get a decent 450 turn coming from a 270 turn. Why do I mention this? Good fundamentals generally develop slowly and carried through the rest of the canopies – this takes time and repetition. It also gets harder to learn on a higher performance wing, it takes more time to unlock all the potential of the wing; they have a smaller margin for error and bleed power faster ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ So I could not post my canopy progression in exactly the same way as for the a number of years I have had multiple canopies and the numbers are a bit rough. Right now I still have 4 mains, they each get varying degrees of use depending on what I am doing. For the last 7 years I have focussed pretty exclusively on CP. I have between 3000-3500 jumps. I have also had a ton of coaching off top level cp folks, compete regularly and do a lot of coaching myself. I have upsized my main after getting on too much of a hot main (that I could not fly well) from a VX79 to a VE90, nothing wrong with the main but it was just too much for me at the time (around 1600 jumps) and trying to use it in comp. For day to day jumping I use my largest canopy; I am also thinking about selling my last 79 and getting a larger wing for downwind zone accuracy. Interesting to see most of the people that talk up or think aggressively downsizing is the way to go have the least experience. 1-25 Student canopies 25-100 Icarus Beta 170 (1ish) 100-750 Sabre 1 150 (1.2) 750-900 Sabre 2 135 (1.3) 900-1150 mamba 117 (1.5) VX 95 200 VX79 100 *Velo90 700 (2.2) *Velo84 350 (2.3) *JVX79 500+ (2.3-2.8) Clara 69 200-250 (3.2-3.8) *Petra 67 100 (2.9) *still have "Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain." "In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus
  22. Jiggs

    Downsizing Question

    Not sure that many people would teach a 360 for CP. In fact, I don’t know anyone that would teach a 360 as a comp turn. Perhaps what the other guy was referring to the fact that the guy is getting used to a turn mechanic and sight picture that means that he will not eat it. That is good. If he has skipped some of the different turn mechanics that is not so good. I think of 180s as a throw away turn; they are useful only in the sense of getting used to larger rotation and the possibility of getting deeper in the corner. I think it is very beneficial to see this prior to going to 270s, but 180s have a number of other problems. So when I teach people to swoop, I want to see a very good, consistent 90 with good turn mechanics (most of which we will carry through to larger turns), then 180s for a very short period (increase danger/rotation/being in the corner) to work on the faster/different sight picture, then shift to 270s and start bring all the elements together Being exact on heights is something that takes time, accuracy comes even later. Consistency, height range and setup is the most important things to learn. Any monkey can pull the strings, but bringing them all together on gates is what makes it AMAZING To the OP: In terms of what is the right size, I always look at pilot, their skill level, currency, goals and their comfort on the wing. In recreational skydiving rarely is smaller the better answer "Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain." "In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus
  23. Jiggs

    WILL AADS BECOME MANDATORY?

    Sundevil has hit on probably the biggest drive/change motivator: I think that the most significant thing is that more places will likely end up making AAD mandatory; as for the business owner, they get the benefit as well (lower risk) without incurring the cost. AADs are not perfect, but they do save some people’s life In Australia they are mandatory at most dropzones, this does not seem to preclude people from jumping here. It has become part of the norm here, so people don’t tend to question it. What it does do is create a bit of a culture change which has some good and bad elements. Broadly – I think it is a good idea as the benefits seem to outweigh the negatives. For me - most of my jumps are not with a Cypress. I also go on some FF jumps without a cypress with selected friends. (I have 3 cypresses – well 2 now that I just sold one to a friend). I think the most important thing is how we approach and consider risk (as stated by Wendy). All of us need to look at what jumps we are doing, our level or risk, currency, deployment height, experience, equipment suitability and where we are on the risk continuum (and how comfortable we are there). I do this for every jump; that’s part of the reason why I don’t take my swoopiest mains on some loads for example (e.g. not limited to AAD choice). E.g. if I was into angle or dynamic flying I would really want to have one. I would then also probably have a bigger main to deal with any traffic. PS. When my units get the new service I would bump up the fire height by 200-300 feet to give it more margin (my opening heights are already higher) "Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain." "In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus
  24. Jiggs

    Zulu by Aerodyne - new canopy

    "and it exhibited great control response with brakes stowed" Sounds like marketing speak for the Mamba! (I used to have 117) "Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain." "In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus
  25. Jiggs

    Crossbraces at low wingloadings

    Here is an idea – why not use the money to actually get some canopy coaching rather than messing around with different canopies? With 400 jumps you have a very low level of experience and have not mastered ANY wing. Nor will you have good turn mechanics at this point. Why change planform and set your learning back? Also the big velocities are like driving a bus compared to similar sized other canopies. The openings are not as good – more “searchy” and I would say not as soft It packs larger & costs more Risk is kind of like an exponential curve, you are just moving further along the curve. I think you are already at high risk with the canopy that you currently jump and more so around your thought process. But whatever, it is your life and your ability to walk. Just try not to hit anyone else. I do not hear any reason for you to change wings. Ohh – here is a reason not to; actual swoopers will laugh at you. When you fly like miss daisy drives; on a velocity – it is worthy of derision. Stay on your current wing and learn to swoop properly. Learn to fly your wing, learn to do everything you can do on the wing (e.g. all inputs), improve your turn mechanic, improve your accuracy and depth, learn to swoop gates. Set yourself some goals, have a progression plan and rock that plan. If you master your current canopy and learn to fly it to it’s full potential, you will have a much faster progression, will be a better canopy pilot and better equipped to downsize. One last thing, when you are jumping more loaded canopies, the thing that people tend to not realise at the time is the bigger jump you need in mental awareness and planning a flight path to negotiate canopy traffic to ensure you can swoop (and swoop safely). I generally don’t bother with my favourite main if I have to deal with traffic on a load. EDIT: oops punctuation! "Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain." "In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus