Zahry

I'm not so partial on their elastic stowing system either. What is the mbs of that elastic shock cord? What's it's maximum breaking strength?

It looks like the system is packed for use - WHY ??? if there are closing loop fibers on the SHARP end of the housing = Grounded system. The closing loop itself looks out of service too. If the housing or any housing on a parachute does NOT have the rounded finish metal cover end it should not be used - see all housing in use on parachutes Sport & Military. Did you informed SE about that ? or it came up only after the CZ fatality? You also said that SE report show some ??? does the TI involved in the fatality was a DHT TI ? All time you are pointing on unsafe & risky points on the DHT you should STOP rig & jump the DHT's at your DZ - stay behind your words. Again, did you ever reported SE about all the points you came up with ???? Be Safe !!!

Maybe about month ago before the accident I've heard there were some negotiations between SE and Jojowings to make DHT and HOP330 legal. I'll try to find out more

If anyone thinks there is nothing wrong with the system. Here are some photos of the disputed design. The parts were inspected on friday (25 jump check) and since the inspection we did 7!!! jumps only on the equipment. During the inspection there was no visible damage to the loop, plastic, housing or the stitching. Today morning when I did few random checks I've discovered the damage. What you see on the photos is the housing cutting its way out through the plastic. How does it happen? The 3 ring system in certain configuration in freefall can push the housing into the plastic. The housings are mostly improperly finished (just cut with exposed sharp edge - every single one I ever seen is almost the same - some worst, some better) and when pushed into the plastic the vibrations from drogue can help cut it its way through. And if there is rough sharp edge (just like in our case here) it goes through like a chainsaw. On the Detail you can see bit of the loop still caught on the rough edge. It looks to me not just like only one design flaw but a whole bunch together. This rig has about 1 500 jumps and the housing was changed 3 months ago (the numbers are from top of my head - the exact numbers are recorded in maintenance book @ DZ. If anyone is interested I can provide the exact number of jumps, mothly average and DOM) I think the same thing in worst stage killed the czech tandem pair. When I've asked czech autorities about the other two accidents Tom mentioned I've discovered there was only one accident involving housing on risers jamming cuttaway (TM cutted the riser loop) and nobody knew anything about the other two accidents Tom mentioned in this forum. - maybe it was just misunderstanding and it happened somewhere else ... but there are other disconcerting fact. I found out the reserve packing card has been provided to Ted and Ted has been reminded he has seen it before publishing his press realease - and than he stated he hasn't seen it (you can check it with czech autorities as well just like me) So, can I trust the rest of it what the SE says? Also, I was unable to find where the DHT manual states the owner must keep inspection and maintenance records other than usually found in reserve packing card. (I was unable to find where it states the rig has to be sent back to strong after 8 years as well - but it might be just my fast reading ...)

Hi, here are the pics. Because the DHT "reserve" is practically just another main canopy the packjob itself is VERY easy.

Hi guys, I appreciate what you are saying. I agree Strong has one of the best customer services over the world - full stop. I agree and appreciate back in the day they vastly improved the safety of tandem skydiving (Ted was the guy who started the whole thing if my knowledge is right). So I guess you might wonder why I'm poking into things like that. The reason is Teds Press Release about the last accident. He torn the guys to pieces (with grace and beauty) but nevertheless he literary thrown 100% of all that sh.. on their heads and walked away with SE sparkling and shining as a diamond. (As my friend explained me now, that's quite common practise in states and it is something to do with so many hungry lawyers there). The thing is - most of the world is outside states and they don't have to necessarily know or care about how it works there (revert the sides if necessary and you'll find you are not different). Unfortunately lot of people took the Press Release seriously as a final report and they think the case is closed. No - it isn't. The properly investigated official report hasn't been released yet. Just for curiosity - revert the sides. Imagine if the same accident has happened in states on Czech equipment. How would the press release looked like? I'm sure it would contain something like that: dangerous design, errors in construction cased by ignoring latest findings in safety, inappropriate testing by manufacturer, incomplete instructions and maintenance guidelines and so on ... I think no one should be complaining about what I'm doing because in SE they are doing exactly the same thing. I'm just looking at the coin from different side.

Hi Tom, I'm not putting worlds in your mouth - I said That's how I can interpret your answer and the area was clearly marked by >>>

Hi Tom, Thanks for the answer and for the time you are spending answering my questions. I guess you think it is an utter waste of time but I've got few points from your replies. I'm happy to cooperate on making the DHT safer and I'm sure I'll be able to offer more than just criticism. Although I'll be happy to discuss those matters via email some things I would like to discuss here open to public instead of hiding it. I believe if we won't keep our knowledge and experience as a secret somewhere out there could be someone with inquisitive and inventive mind and that person could come with something important later on. Based on your information I'm not concerned about AADs at all - those are well sorted, there is no problem and I'm happy about it. It wasn't my concern before but it is always good to know these things. Back to the subject: Your answers were nice and curly but let me get it straight and simple. That's how I can interpret your answers. >>> 1 - Have you based your press release on speculations without thorough physical testing? 1 - No - you did some testing and you believe it was enough 2 - Have you done physical ground tests on old and new equipment with different closing loops lengths and with different canopies? 2 - No , you haven't testing like that because it shouldn't happen. 3 - Are you aware stowing lines in elastic loops with plastic chokers on (or even without plastic chokers) can cause reserve bag lock? 3 - Yes but you are saying it is ok because even on significantly improved systems is still chance for baglock (even thus the chance for baglock on modern freebags is drastically decreased compare to DHT freebag) 4 - Are you aware stowing lines in elastic loops with plastic chokers on (or even without plastic chokers) can cause horseshoe malfunction on reserve or reserve entanglement during unstable reserve deployment? 3 - Yes , but you choose to ignore it because you are sure it will clear every single time (I'm talking the case when reserve pilotchute gets wrapped around some part of TM/passengers body and can't be quickly removed)

Opening up a disscussion about serious problem and asking for explanation is NOT a pesonal attack on SE. Altrhough I'm using pointy arguments I'm using apropriate language and my arguments are based on very easily verified facts. If you don't appreciate freedom of speach move to Iran or North Korea - I'm sure you'll be fully satisfied with quality of their censorship.

Honestly Tomas, your not going to hear much from me on this thread. As clearly evidenced by your postings on both this thread and the incidents forum, there is no amount of evidence or information that is going to sway your opinion, you will "point/counter point" this for all time. Hi Tom, 1) I'm not surprised but disappointed you are finding my concerns based on field experience just "being negative". What I'm surprised to hear about is Mr Strong has spend 30 000$ just to try out for himself if vigil and Argus cutters can cut the loops (not my business - true, it's his money) ... but I'm glad you haven't had any problems on those reserve rides - I know enough people including myself who don't have as good experience as you do. 2) I've spent some time verifying your reply about the volumes and after several physical experiments (no speculations) I've discovered a few very disconcerting facts which I would like to share. When I've tried to pull the bag out I found it was impossible to pull out even HOP330 out of new container with tight closing loop. On the other hand it was quite easy to pull out d bag with ANY CANOPY out of ANY older rig with stretched closing loops (5 year - 3200 jumps). Why my physical test didn't confirm your speculation? Can I ask you to answer a few simple YES / NO / CA (CAN'T ANWER BECAUSE OF POSSIBLE LAWSUIT) questions? 1 - Have you based your press release on speculations without thorough physical testing? (Y/N/CA) 2 - Have you done physical ground tests on old and new equipment with different closing loops lengths and with different canopies? (Y/N/CA) (following questions are regarding general safety) 3 - Are you aware stowing lines in elastic loops with plastic chokers on (or even without plastic chokers) can cause reserve bag lock? (Y/N/CA) 4 - Are you aware stowing lines in elastic loops with plastic chokers on (or even without plastic chokers) can cause horseshoe malfunction on reserve or reserve entanglement during unstable reserve deployment? (Y/N/CA) I'll appreciate if you'll answer all questions honestly and with simple Y/N/CA

personal insults and your personal opinions about me please into my personal email or prefferably face to face. Thank you

I know about these changes and interesting fact is that almost every change can be named " In memory of ... " The identified problems and field experience was usualy ignored or disregarded untill there was fatal or very serious accident. I thought safer rig means fewer accidents and fewer accidents means lot less problems with lawyers.

Hi Rob. I guess we are not on the same page at the moment. Developing theories about the last fatality wasn't my intention here - that's why I've started the new thread separated from the accident forum. My reason for starting this tread was to open up a discusion about DHT Design flaws and Safety and Maintenance hazards to wake up people from blindly believing in their equipment without knowing what's in there and how it works. (i know out there are many people otraged because they are scared they'll loose their flase feeling of safety but there is lot more in stake than just hurt feelings) I would like to expose the huge potential for problems on DHT (specialy the "reserve" system) and I hope the knowledge will help to change something and prevent future accidents - or do you think there is nothing on DHT what deserves attention, revision and improvement? I'm not sure what's your opinion about this but I think in comercial skydiving should be tendency to make work euipment and work enviroment more safer and if we discover something is wrong we should do something about it. It is Not just because of us but because of the paying customers as well. Looking forward to hear from you, Tom

any sensible or constructive arguments? take your time - there is no rush

How much is to much? For the record SE lopo's are still one of the best pilot canopies out there for the range of speeds for which they were designed. You have to judge things based on what they were designed for.