swoopfly

On 5/28/2023 at 3:53 PM, ufk22 said:

So, rather have USPA just turn him in to the FAA?

If this was 10 or more years ago, I might believe that maybe this was a personal thing between the TI and his RD, but not now.

The new disciplinary procedures, combined with a preference for education over discipline by the safety and training committee, would lead me to bet on USPA being in the right on this one.

Actually thats exactly what USPA did, was contact the FAA to take this instructors medical. after the FAA concluded that there was no legitimate reasoning for their request. The USPA decided they can just choose not to accept the memebers valid medical. they even posted it in parachutist which was shared earlier. "refuse to recognize a class 3 medical, for failing to meet FAA requirements" when asked what requirement the guy didnt meet there was never an answer given, probably because its bs. 

On 6/1/2022 at 3:51 PM, DougH said:

They didn't issue or revoke a medical.

They refused to accept the provided FAA medical as sufficient to meet their requirements.

It is a very clear distinction. Again, they aren't issuing or revoking a medical, they aren't the FAA they can't do that obviously. Instead they are evaluating whether their requirement is met given additional information, since it is their requirement and their tandem rating credential they have latitude in determining whether the requirement was met. 

    I notice your stuck on the executive committess stance that they refuse to recognize a  Valid FAA medical. But if you can differentiate from the CG and EC "verbage" you will notice the story changed quite offten in this case just like the regional directors over this case. If you will note:

  " USPA has suspended your tandem rating until you lawfully renew your FAA 3rd class medical through Joseph E. Allen, M.D., AME #03636 or an AME he recommends. If an AME, other than Dr. Allen, issues you a FAA Medical Certificate, the Compliance Group must receive, in writing, from that AME, confirmation that he has received all your medication and medical history from Dr. Allen"

 

 

   Now by claiming a member MUST "Lawfully" renew a medical would be indictive of saying the meidcal they hold is not valid! i dont care how you word it. Even going on to pick out the only medical examiner across the entire united states who may renew it is a peculiar reach within itself. There is no requirement here to meet these conditions and at the time the letter was written the TI in question had a medical in his hand, that was valid according to the FAA. one with common sense would assume the case would be closed. but Then the EC decided that since the CG was proven wrong they can just all decide not to accept an FAA medical certificate. if one cares to read the governance manual it states all members of this organization will be treated openly honestly and most important FAIRLY. I got the permission of the member to share this letter in its redacted form. 

edited CG Letter.pdf

35 minutes ago, DougH said:

They didn't do that.

Wait, I thought you said that the USPA can't make a medical determination?! "seems rather ironic".

The class 3 medical has a 60 month renewal if you are under 40 years old.

If my medical has 4 years on the clock, and the USPA was put on notice that I recently I suffered a head injury and experienced a partial loss of vision that would have precluded me from getting the medical if they were pre-existing conditions at the time of my last medical, should they knowingly consider my medical requirement to be met for the next four renewals?

Maybe DZ A told me to hang it up because I was having close calls and endangering students, so I just went to Shitty McDZO down the street who was happy to have a warm body. Is the USPA supposed to sit on their hands until the FAA catches up with my medical condition?

I am not saying that the USPA made the right decision, or that due process was followed, but I disagree with your premise that they don't have the authority to do what they did.

So when do we get to hear the juicy details from "As the Prop Turns". Who stole whose rotation or girlfriend? Who was acting like such a pain in the ass that all of these dominos started falling?

 

 

The sim clearly states you cannot be under the influence of alcohol or drugs (with an obvious reason ). And USPA absolutely has the right to take action against an instructor whose operating under the influence of alcohol or drugs ..... but accusing a person of being on drugs and then them providing evidence that the source was obviously wrong.... and then ignoring the very evidence they claim would saitisfy them.

now accusing an instructor on being on non scheduled drug and claiming it invalidates the medical certificate is quite an opinion ... are we going to start pulling ratings on ti who use Sudafed on those winter mornings because you know it is a non scheduled drug listed not for use by the FAA 

13 hours ago, DougH said:

They didn't issue or revoke a medical.

They refused to accept the provided FAA medical as sufficient to meet their requirements.

It is a very clear distinction. Again, they aren't issuing or revoking a medical, they aren't the FAA they can't do that obviously. Instead they are evaluating whether their requirement is met given additional information, since it is their requirement and their tandem rating credential they have latitude in determining whether the requirement was met. 

Interesting ! So you believe a person with no medical training , no medical license even for that matter . Can make an FAA medical determination for the FAA staff . I believe the only issue of the TI rating would be one is the ti on drugs that maybe a problem ......well here’s two letters one from a doctor and another from an Airmen Medical Examiner stating he is not . Issue solved. And two did said instructor violate the bsr we say he did . Operate without a class 3 medical. Well USPa has his medical on file not hard to confirm , there’s even an FAA database with listed instructor . Also what dz do you know allowing ti to operate without a medical . They should be in violation too . But there never was a named location and place because a violation never occurred that the CG claim and they could never give a time date and place that such violation occurred . Seems rather ironic 

1 hour ago, DougH said:

Whole lot of hair splitting going on here.

It is a USPA tandem rating, so setting aside our expectations of due process, if they decide that you don't meet the requirements they can revoke your rating.

There must be a soap opera of epic proportions behind all of this. Some one either had a big axe to grind with this instructor, or had concerns about this instructors fitness conduct tandems. Either way they reached out the USPA with a compelling enough story to put this all in motion. The USPA doesn't do random audits of these type of thing without being put on the trail.

 

 

Not sure how you consider this hair splitting . It’s actually spelled out pretty clearly in the sim and online . You must possess a current class 3 medical , it even goes on to state how to obtain one and mentions it’s the “instructors “ responsibility to keep it up to date ,not USPA in fact they can’t even issue medicals much less revoke one. 

1 hour ago, Deisel said:

Yep, I saw that. How do you know that the TI was "picked out of the crowd" randomly? It sounds like an assumption (by someone) and I would wager that there was something that specifically drew their fire. There are far too many of us for the BOD to individually police. These proceedings typically begin with a report of some kind. Much more likely that a report was filed and then the CG began their investigation. 

Picked out of the crowd ? Well that’s easy ..... because this Ti is the only person in the history of USPA to have valid paperwork they can’t recognize ? What would you tell an officer who can’t recognize your state issued ID? And violated you on not having one ? Not because you didn’t actually have it , but because since he can’t recognize yours only that puts you in violation . I hope I wouldn’t have to explain the absurdity in that to the average person . Again USPA list the FAA medical as acceptable, you can’t do tandems without a medical while actually holding an FAA medical . And be in violation . 

On 5/29/2022 at 8:36 PM, Deisel said:

Nah, of course not. The BOD doesn't discuss CG matters in public. And that's (mostly) a good thing. I'd love to see that change WRT sitting BOD members. Their cases should be made public IMO. My question was more for the OP. And we all have to keep in mind that regardless of how many facts offered, even the OP doesn't know what actually happened in committee. More likely a good dose of speculation about the CG's motivations and reasoning. But your question is a valid one.

Does anyone read the parachutist magazine much ? Now I completely understand the other violations of people forging a medical certificate . But USPA in this instance just picked a guy out the crowd and refuse to recognize a VALID, legit FAA medical .......ironically after disapproving false allegations of threats on students ......

On 5/23/2022 at 4:36 PM, wolfriverjoe said:

I don't disagree that USPA is going to keep this person from being a TI pretty much no matter what.
 

But USPA doesn't have 'absolute authority' over the rating.

The board, through the Compliance Group, has procedures and rules that they have to follow. 
You know, that 'due process' thing. 
They can't just arbitrarily pull someone's license because they want to.

The fact that they took the step of pretending the medical was not valid to use as an excuse to pull the license tells me that they know this too.

The fact that they are apparently making shit up and doing whatever they feel like bothers me a lot.

To add more context

  The idea that you think they cant just do whatever they want is in general a common sense one. But that is not the case in this instance. for example

a few of the laws that were broken in their own governance manual.

1) the Regional director was removed off this case (who also shared that these charges should be dropped) for unknown reasons!!!

2) the Compliance group reached out to the member directly before any contact with the "NEW" regional director put on this case. Expressing they rather the member voluntarily  surrender thier rating instead of making them go through the 1-6 gov manual process. They felt they would find the member guilty anyway and he should just give up the rating instead of making them go through the "due process" you speak of and make them take it.

3) Once the request was to get a letter from a doctor or an AME that the member was not on the mediication USPA was accusing him of being on and all this would be resolved. after providing the information that mind you IS NOT EVER required. THE CG changed the story once again and said that wasnt sufficeint evidence even mistakenly sharing that they didnt think the memeber would have actually gotten the letter.

4) Once found gulity by the CG the memebr appealed to the board and brought in the FAA at this point to back up the AME. USPA EC then once again changed their position stating. We arnt saying your medical is invalid or valid NOW, we are just saying we choose not to Recognize yours. So singling out this one person violating them for doing tandems without a medical because they choose not to recognize a valid FAA medical , while at the same time posting on USPA.org website that an FAA medical is acceptable. Talk about abusing a members rights and discrimination. Whats your thoughts on USPA not recognizing a form that they post as the form to get?

On 5/11/2022 at 12:47 PM, buzzfink said:

How is it that everyone does not see this?  The fact that Luke has not resigned already means that he’s putting it on the organization to take the action against him. He should do the right thing and just resign. NOW!!!

You are insinuating that the “organization” would take action in its own board members. I think you fail to get how this works and I think you fail to see the reason these people join the good ole boys club in the first place . I can promise you it’s not for YOU. 

57 minutes ago, Pat007 said:

What is the process for the FAA to conduct their investigation and render a decision on any penalty? Is there a hearing by an Administrative Law Judge after the investigation where parties can submit evidence and testimony, or is it some other process?

 

Not sure what role the parties will have in proving innocence here. I mean you have a request letter and a denial letter . And a totaled airplane . What exactly do you think they would convince a judge of ?

16 hours ago, riggerrob said:

A simple review of medical records (family doctor and pharmacist) should confirm whether or not the TI is still taking that medication.

For example, I only took Gravol for one week (circa 1984) but hated the side effects (e.g. copper taste in my mouth) and quit taking Gravol. I have not touched the drug since.

I suspect that there is a lot more to this story than USPA have published.

So to keep the discussion back on topic , who do you report medications too at USPA? Which doctor is the one they have on staff that determines your Medical validity ?  Can this same USPA doctor you report to issues the medical as well ? If so why does USPA not issue the medical ?

7 hours ago, DougH said:

I am confused. Why would the USPA have any awareness of the medications that a Class 3 medical holder is taking, allowed prohibited or otherwise?

When you say Compliance Group, you are referring to a USPA governance group, and not an FAA medical review board?

Forget the USPA, I am curious how did the FAA get on the scent of a prohibited medication in the first place that was actually not prescribed or used? If you didn't take it you wouldn't disclose it during your medical, and if it wasn't prescribed it shouldn't have been in your medical records.

It was a medication that was prescribed but stopped after one time use due to adverse side effects. The FAA is aware the medication was prescribed . The FAA medical is still valid . The concern here is that USPA believes they have the authority to say the medical was invalid based solely on a picture of a prescription from 2 years ago ..... USPA website claims that the instructor is responsible for their medical .USPA in this case decided to take matters into their own hands and just outright suspend the members rating . First claiming the instructor terroristicly threatened their tandem students , then mid investigation , dropping that and claiming their medical was no good. While failing to give information as to WHY they believed that !

The compliance group accused the member of being on a prescription medication that the member was not on. They concluded that they have credible proof that it’s true. After the member provided documentation from a doctor that they were not on said medication , the CG said that was not proof enough that the member should get in writing from an FAA AME the same documentation ...,that the member was not taking said medication. After the member once again provided the same letter from an FAA AME concluding the same story that said member was not on the medication the CG said that was not proof enough and then took disciplinary action against the member suspending the members tandem rating , claiming they do not have a class 3 medical and it violates their BSR. While never expressing to the member why or how the “credible proof” they have would deem a class 3 medical invalid . 

hello

 

     The topic of discussion, USPA has acted to what seems to many examiners and members as an inappropriate disciplinary action against a member. They have made a judgement that the members Class 3 medical is invalid based solely on the compliance groups investigation. Disregarding the FAA website clearly showing the Instructor has a current Class 3 medical and even had verification from the FAA that the medical is still in date and valid. The USPA has looked behind the members valid FAA medical and deemed it not acceptable for USPA tandem instructor rating. Therefore "claiming" the instructor violated USPA BSR's "conducting tandem jumps without a Class 3 medical Certificate" . Im reaching out as a topic to discuss, what right do you think USPA has to Judge a medical certificate? They do not issues medicals, they have no person on staff that even has a medical license and further and foremost they are not appointed by the FAA to make such an arbitrary decision against the member.        

 

Yea what’s more interesting is the risers release but not the skyhook , keeping the riser and baglock attached to you . Here in lies the problem , I’m not a fan of main reserve entanglements, having survived one.

Not according to UPT sigma manual

Hi

 

     I’ve had an issue with skyhook getting stuck with baglock malfunction. Essentially just keeping the baglock attached to you. Thought it was just really bad luck until I came across some other instructors who knew this does and has happened in the past as well. Apparently it’s a malfunction that exposes a problem in the skyhook design. Before going into great detail , what are your experiences and thoughts on this malfunction associated with the operation of the skyhook 

my .friend this was Not a cry of any sort I have many friends who are foreigners from all over the world really good friends this was more a question about law. you know USPA Claim to govern skydiving so I was curious about laws being broken . I find it funny that people keep referring to Americans as the only legal people. you can be from another country and legally work in the US just not with a travel visa. anyway I was just curious on legal aspects. not who works harder than another

Just curious on thoughts on the massive influx over the summer of illegal workers who travel to the us under a travel visa and work under the table for dropzones. Taking away from the legal instructors. they also dont pay taxes since they are not reporting illegal wages. Is this right? we all seen it. Does USPA care or do they see it as not their problem as they may have the "rating", even tho they are illegally working? just curious on thoughts, i see it at every dz.

afrin! spray some in your nose, then clear your ears,. pushing the afrin through your eustachian tubes!

BMFin

***
Ever given any thought to what would happen if you had a premature opening while you are flying under someone?

Sure I have. I take care of my gear. Sometimes I fly underneath other during a freefly jump (just like everyone else). Tandem jump is no different. Flying underneath is no big deal. I dont really understand where this double standard is coming from.

this guy lol here it is straight out of the book! maybe sigma UPT is creating the double standard. i surly wouldnt jump with you

1) No one should ever pass directly over or under the Tandem pair in freefall or droguefall. On exit, the Tandem Instructor needs room to deploy the drogue, and at any time after that, the drogue could suddenly become a deploying main canopy.

To finish your A if you only have 4 to go, those would be coach jumps. If you dont finish in time, i am sure there will be plenty of coach's there that will do a coach jump with you! so dont miss out n come on out, you wont regret it! You can probably even finish your A there

my service from alti 2 was not the best it could be, by far. n2 broken screen, shocker. sent it in during middle of season for screen replacement. well after the season ended i wrote them telling them my address will be changed as the skydiving season is over. i gave them my address to send to, they said they would put it in the notes. 6 months later my screen is fixed and sent to the old dz where i worked 6 months ago. should it really take half a year to repair a screen. my n2 is currently broken again, screen. and i didnt even care to send it in again

Tell them if you dont get your feet up higher your going to break your leg(s). You will be amazed at how much extra height they can lift them after that, but with old people yes it can be a problem!

I think the initial intention was to keep an eye on the other plane as y climb to altitude, as air traffic controllers didn't want to have to keep an eye and tell both planes where they are at all times. The pilot seemed to do this at another dz, so I gave it a go thinking he might know what he was talking about. After the trial run I knew my instincts were right as they most always are, and it was one of the dumbest ideas ever! I asked you other skydivers because this pilot was also a low time jumper and gave me the attitude as if I am dumb for even questioning him! But yes I know to go with what I believe and he is an idiot!