QuietStorm

Jeff: Nicely said....and well stated

Wow...very interesting post; haven't seen something this PASSIONATE in a very long time. I have a lot of comments, there is alot of stuff I really want to say in response to the comments of my fellow birds of how we got to where we are in skydiving. So I'll focus on one very important thing; MONEY!....Funds you can budget and afford. Unless you are willing to make the "cuts" and get into Army and Spec Ops; all private civilian aviation related activities COST LOTS OF MONEY. Just the way it is in high risk sports. Nothing will get in the way quicker of you achieving your goals in skydiving more than LACK OF MONEY. You have "seen the math" on this post so far. How do you think somebody can go from 0 jumps to over 1,300 in just 2 years? MONEY. Look at other wingsuiters profiles and you will see longer times in the sport and maybe some lower jump numbers. I started in college in 1987. I jumped scary surplus gear that was 25 years old and was awarded a free jump for every new first jump student I brought to the D.Z.; that's how I "financed" my student training back in the static line days. Being commissioned as a Naval Officer, and having a "good job"...gave money to jump. In skydiving ALL THINGS ARE MADE POSSIBLE BY MONEY. Training, rigs, wind tunnel time, jump tickets; for everthing you need to gain in experience you are going to be handing over MONEY. 4 Way Teams come to Eloy pouring thousands and thousands of dollars into the windtunnel and coaching from AirSpeed or Arsenal. MONEY. Some folks live close to poverty sacrificing what some folks consider to be "necessity" to finance their passion, others have racked up HUGE Credit Card debt ruining themselves financially, others are employed in such as fashion so that there is so MUCH MONEY they have two rigs, a private packer, and wipe thier ass with $100 bills. MONEY is the resource that makes many things possible; professional education such as law or medical school..... perhaps a business launch. Figure out what it takes for you to get your hands on MONEY and you will not have to choose between SCUBA or SKYDIVING. Until that time you are going to have to realistically base your timeline and achievement of your dreams /goals in skydiving around HOW MUCH MONEY YOU CAN GET YOUR HANDS ON. And that's probably the best no B.S. realistic advice I can say after 20 years in the sport.

Spot: I'm sorry to hear that you got hurt; worse yet....man; the PAIN of a femur and pelvis breaking. Very thankful that something worse.....did not happen. John

I'm in with Kung Fu Panda on this one! I like his example on the Space Shuttle. Questions: Ever been up in an aerobatic glider and personally experienced what it can do and the level of prowess on the controls it takes? Does the pilot "fly" or "fall"? Have you ever been around glider pilots who find the thermals and go high enough to put on the oxygen? Do you know the sixth "sense" it takes to "fly" a glider well in the upper atmosphere? They are not falling. How could a winguit be any different in the sense of being able to fly or not? You are basically adjusting the controls by using your body itself as the fuselodge and wings to cover distance over ground. Fly?.....or...Fall? In a glider the inputs to the flight control surfaces controls are similar to that of a powered airplane. If your Cessna 182 completely drops power and you have to make a hasty emergency landing...say onto a road ( it has happened ) Fly?.....or....Fall? Uhhh....ever see what happens when a helicopter drops power completely. It does not fly.....it definately falls. My brother is an Air Force Academy graduate, holds a Masters degree in Aeronautical Engineering, flew and F-16 for 20 years, and is a Southwest Plane Captain. So I asked my super cocky jet jock big brother if I was really "flying" in a wingsuit. His answer - "yes"; citing that only by adding thrust (power ) I could extend my flight time. Which led to more beer and theoretical discussions about weight of my fuel on board, drag, lift, etc. Discusssions about Newtonian physics and the potential energy of objects at height made possible by an "engine" called gravity. This then lead onto straight shots of Tequila. I'm very curious and sincerely interested in your reasoning, logic, and how you have come to your conclusions.

OK then.....allow me; 'Cuz you'll like that slap on the ass on the rodeo dive.....won'tcha! \ Good times.

As the saying goes; "Nothing ventured....nothing risked....nothing accomplished." Without risk.....there is nothing Well thought out calculated risk.......and very nice reward. Good job to all!

Butters: I have a few questions. I am curious about what you were taught about the Basic Parachuting Skill of SPOTTING when you graduated AFF. I'm not picking here..... Have you ever thrown a Wind Drift Indicator from 2,500 FT and watch it hit the ground downwind? What was the extent of the training provided to you as a student / beginning skydiver on determining "THE SPOT". How and what where you taught? As part of your training, did you under several varying weather conditions ( different weekends) have to determine your own exit point....or was this made for you? I'm not picking on you.......just trying to raise an point for discussion. I'm curious what the answer would be for this question posed to ALL of us on this forum. It just seems to me we have all these turbine planes these days with GPS, the light goes yellow, door opens, look down, and if clear.....we go on green. At some point the light turns red and if necessary there is a go around. Many people have not had the opportunity to really learn how to "spot"; not their fault. The aspects of the wingsuit flight path are all very important, making the wingsuit jump more complex than a standard belly fly or freefly skydive. But learning and maintaining the skill of determining where to get out of the airplane to begin with, without having to rely on a pilot or GPS seems to be a "Lost Art" these days; that really should not be "Lost". Twenty years ago EVERY experienced skydiver had a solid command of this vital skill and the only people asking questions of how to spot.....where the students. Most skydivers will just go into oblivion....relying on a pilot and a green light. But as WINGSUITERS there is a "higher level" of airmanship required. So this is a good topic for discussion and learning.

Stupid whuffo's; always a sensationalist spin.....and why I never bother to answer thier stupid f*cking questions anymore. Same stupid questions from a point of factual ignorance and internal fear....just change the face. Glad we could jump together at Eloy a few years back.... those were fun jumps! Remember the jump where you let go of the yellow caution tape and it wrapped all around Scott Callentines camera helmet? That was really funny! Heal soon!

Wow Spot.......I can't believe such a very simple request could unleash such an ego driven, chest pounding storm of who did what first and who claims to have done what first; so I really like many of the things I hear Jarno, Scotty, and Matt are saying on this post thread. Try getting in touch with Rolph Brombach. This past December and January in Eloy; he and his Lady - Micah were doing a lot of this "Wingsuit Freefly" jumping thing. A LOT! Anne and I followed in the exit order so I spent a good amount of time hanging my head out the Otter door watching thier travel down the hill before our exit. Rolph and Micah were both were running video and should have tons of footage. You might want to ask Rolph. Circa 2005 I downloaded and burned to DVD a lot of the videos made by Jarno, Matt Hoover and Scotty Burns. I think these are the ones with Omar Nerys they are referring to. Wow! Back then I used to stay up until the wee hours of the morning watching that stuff over and over, lunch breaks at work, you name it! These movies are still up on skydivingmovies.com in the wingsuit section. If need be I guess I could find a way to get a copy over to you. Hope this helps for your project!

Matt: It took a computer shutdown and reboot for Adobe Flash 10 to "take"; worked fine. Nice work. Wow! That New England weather sure was a nice COOL break from August desert heat; lets hope the TSA does not go through with the B.S. of wanting to security screen CASA's.

Downloaded Adobe Flash Player....movie still won't play.

Good one....and great music choice too!

I really like the content of 90 Percent out of Italy and the BPA magazine Skydiving seems to have much better content that what USPA puts out in terms of a magazine.

I AGREE! As written in my response to another post / thread: I will pay GOOD MONEY for nice stills; enlarged, developed, and UPS'd to my door; but only to a certain price point. Scotty Burns got a great shot of me in wingsuit flight over a blanket of clouds on a sunset load over Elsinore. I adore this photograph; its an instant conversation starter for guests who visit my home and a point of personal pride and satisfaction. Even my fighter pilot brother finds the shot totally bad ass. The shot is better than any of the fighter aircraft shots on his " I love me wall" at his house. To me photos like these are worth the money. Ever buy a high quality Nikon or Canon and the lenses that come with it? Then accessorize the camera helmet so you don't lose the gear? Its a shitload of money! Ask my wingman Nuclear Nick who lost a Nikon D-2000 and the FishEye wideangle including the PC-1000 video camera on a hard riser strike to the helmet. Oh yeah, then there is the time spent on the ground post edit in Adobe Photoshop when the photographer could be doing something else other than "working". It can be a real hassle. You are giving up time to do something else. I strongly value time spent on something. Ocassionaly I shoot stills in the air and on the ground. I am so busy I don't have time to learn Adobe Photoshop. I just take the card out of my camera, make some nice 8 x 10's at the photo kiosk Costco; and share some nice photos between friends; no charge....no performance expectations. The photos are warmly recieved gifts and definately keep a good vibe going. Its hard to make a living at freefall photography; no high volume commercial demand. Even our "best" have other jobs and don't really live "high off the hog" taking freefall photos. At best its a labor of love and a way to capture and share the moment. There is a saying in photography; like prostitution its hard to make money as a "pro" when the amateurs give it away for free. I want the photographers in our sport to at least cover his/her equipment expenses and the time they put forward on Adobe Photoshop. I want to at least make it worth thier while to keep it up. Many years ago I had an aquarium installation and maintenance business on the side of my "normal job" just to support the huge reef aquarium I had at home. So I understand where the freefall photographer who has spent a lot of money on equipment and time developing the craft is coming from. To me freefall photography is a craft, passion, and labor of love. Its a great way to at least pay for and break even in what is a relatively a very expensive hobby; skydiving. So I'm willing to pay! I'm gonna make it worth a photographers time so they will keep taking pictures. So I don't think its wrong for photographers to ask a price. Let them offer a price if they would like.

Sorry Guys: Ed cut right to the point! California weather continues to be beautiful from Lodi down to Perris and Elsinore. Current Eloy weather for the past month has been SUNNY....NO RAIN.....NO CLOUDS....DEEP BLUE SKIES....70 DEGREES at day and 50 DEGREES at night. Wife is playing "hookey" from work this Friday; motorcycles at night and wingsuits all weekend day long....heh, heh, heh.....

I'm used to ( and its pretty much expected) that everybody chips in for video. Its really great for de-briefing the jump. I remember stuffing a good bit of money into the video jar at Pepperell this summer to take care of Matt Hoover and Scotty Burns. So I don't mind chipping in for video. I will pay GOOD MONEY for nice stills; enlarged, developed, and UPS'd to my door; but only to a certain price point. Scotty Burns got a great shot of me in wingsuit flight over a blanket of clouds on a sunset load over Elsinore. I adore this photograph; its an instant conversation starter for guests who visit my home and a point of personal pride and satisfaction. Even my fighter pilot brother finds the shot totally bad ass. To me photos like these are worth the money.

All Good Information Here! In summary square and docile no matter the manufacturer. Even the guys flying smaller canopies that are highly loaded still keep that canopy design SQUARE. What everybody has said falls in line to what I have witnessed: - Johnathon Tagle - PD Velocity while flying an Birdman S-6. Saw him chop it. - Scott Campos - PD Katana, while flying a Birdman Blade. Saw him chop it. - My fellow wingman Shawn McLaughlin - PD Stilleto while flying an Birdman S-6, Saw him chop it; I followed his main and Freebag to the cotton field. All HIGHLY LOADED ELLIPTICAL CANOPIES...ALL CHOPPED! The accepted given assumption of a main canopy CHOP is not in my SOP. I don't go into the jump knowing that my main MIGHT burn me. I don't intentionally play with fire. I got TWO Spectre 170's and they do me fine. My wingman Shawn ditched his Stilleto for a Storm and is more happy with the openings, even with a a high wing loading. Justin makes a good point of "gear fear"...you don't want that little small voice processing in your mind when your mind needs to be focued on the jump. My wingman Nuclear Nick packs an F-111 245 7-Cell SharpChuter with a mesh slider and no deployment bag into his main container. I usually have to help him stuff the nylon in so the ST&A does not take notice. Scary pack job...opens perfectly every time. F$ck swoop! Whatever happened to good old sport accuracy? Man back in college my buddies and I would place beer bets on who could stand it up closest to the middle of the peas. Our canopies lend themselves well to this. God I miss those days. Can anybody confirm the rumor on the street that the USPA is going to now get involved in overseeing wingsuits? Additionally they will finally recognized wingsuits and make it a competitive event? The very thought of 4 way sequential wingsuit RW combined with a team sport accuracy score really exicites me! Any comments?

oh...you mean the boogie where we rung our wingsuits out like a mop. Man I lived in Coastal S.C. for 7 years but man I have never seen heat and humidity that tough!

Dennis ( Denig ); Sorry this thread took of in the direction that it did. I could not have written a better reply than what Lurch did. Please see his post. Spot makes a good point too. You can not control what the other guy is going to do. Do you know how "internally comfortable" that fellow / gal next to you is with the exit? If they blow it...is this person of the such size and body mass that you definately don't want to collide with? I have seen large group gainer exits go well out the back of a CASA 212 at Carolina SkyFest ( Scott Gray has cool footage of him and I going out ) and at the Pepperell CASA Boogie. As Lurch says, if you have a right lane and left lane with a slight offset/zippered; the exit can go smooth. My observed reason for these exits going well was that everyone was experienced and very "internally" comfortable wtih the exit. They were all relaxed and had done it dozens of times before. As a result of the wingsuiter experience on the load the gainer exits were tight, fluid, and synchronous. IMO I think the whole "180" turn required for poised exits out the back of tailgate aircraft, delays, and "bumps" spread things out worse. I think experienced wingsuiters, who know each other, are very comfortable and synchronous with the gainer exit can empty the aircraft faster. Your first gainer will be intimidating. Putting a group of people together doing a gainer for the first time can and usually results in some bumps on exit resulting in "Cheetos hitting the wind" . See DSE's comment on this. When you start out; keep the group smaller and comfortable. Once you pull off your first gainer you will be addicted to the exit! I took my wife out on her first gainer exit last weekend. She pulled it off beautifully and now insists on the noisy, stinky, slow ride...SkyVan; that has a tailgate. So do a bunch of these exits with a friend or two, keep the group small, get comfortable, and just have fun! Attached is a photo of DSE doing a gainer out of SkyVan. Photo credit to Scott Callantine. Update: Currently " Nuclear Nick" Bender is in Iraq for the next 3 years driving fuel trucks for KBR making some serious money to make up for lost time. Two convoys recently got hit and as a civilian he has already taken "incoming" Camo Blade's, Camo Containers, Olive Drab canopies; the perfect equipment for evasion and escape in some of the most CHOICE base sites in certain National Parks in the Western U.S. Pictures are classified. Nick Bender may not have the most perfect gainer exit out of a tailgate but certainly much bigger balls than I as his B.A.S.E. jump days go back to Carl Boenish. And when my buddy returns we shall go to Norway!

Spot: Thanks for the webling to US Army on the Skydive Utah website! As skydivers we should never lose sight that are roots and birth are in the Airborne Infantry. We gonna make another Farnsworth Peak run this year? If so Shawn and I will plan a motorcycle adventure around it!

I hope Ben had Iron Maiden's "Fligh of Icarus" thumping on an I-Pod ! Rock on......

I swear to you there is no such thing as ADD....hey look a parachute.....no look; a "flying squirrel suit"!

Everything is just one soundbite after another soundbite hashed into the next one post edit these days.......its why I NEVER EVER talk to the media; the whole story never comes out. Great job Justin handling the questions on the fly.....but I swear the next wuffo who says "squirrel suit" is going to get bitch slapped ral hard.

Flock South Video; hey I really like that song ! Who does it? Would like to go buy it off I-tunes?

Bottom Line is This: Have I ever seen a "standard" configuration main parachute container systems FAIL to put a main canopy overhead in a wingsuit when properly deployed? - NO! Do modifications such as longer bridles, bigger pilot chutes, hard cutaway cable housings on your main risers, "non-elliptical" main canopy design, dynamic corners on the main parachute pack tray, and body flight position at pull time make main canopy deployments under wingsuit more "USER FRIENDLY".....with reduced line twists, malfunctions, and likelyhood of a CHOP? - ABSOLUTELY YES! Go FLY.....GO HAVE FUN!