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"Farley remembered much too late that moving a body after rigor mortise sets in can have unintended consequences." --------------------------------------------- Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

Don't forget to thank the guys that make the steam when you get out in the fleet. --------------------------------------------- Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

"One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich (1970 film)" In 1973 while on submarine patrol we screened this movie, then shown in three reels on 16mm. Anyone familiar with Navy flicks would know that the films came in cans with a sticky tape on each indicating which reel was inside. After watching the first reel the lights come on and you change reels. As we came to the end of reel two the words came on the screen, "such was one day in the life if Ivan Denisovich" and the end credits started to roll. We had just watched reel one and reel three and never noticed that we skipped reel two. Now that's a bad movie. OBTW yes, we then showed reel two, which was equally nondescript demonstrating how boring life on submarine patrol can get. --------------------------------------------- Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

I love my company. --------------------------------------------- Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

Consider this. The brain is not like a digital computer, at least not the way we think of them. Yet, the inputs to the brain could be simulated by a computer in some form or another. Downloading the essence of a "being" into some form of fabricated brain and feeding it inputs from some form of simulator (think Matrix) presents a form of immortality, the ability to travel through time and space, the ability to create pseudo universes, and the ability to become a super-being at least in perception space. If each human brain on earth were "converted" in this way, there would be in the neighborhood of 4 billion universes, each capable of creating multiple universes. Virtual worlds of today might represent the primordial civilizations to a future in which we each get to play gods. --------------------------------------------- Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

Assuming that politicians are uniformly corrupt (as a body) which I do, what this says is that N.D. is the least corrupt state in that they find and prosecute their corrupt politicians at a higher rate than the other states. --------------------------------------------- Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

And so I shall . . . To begin with I should think that a true mega terrorist event would not be an exercise in history but one in imagination. It would not be localized or narrowly targeted but widely focused. It would not require acutal mass response but rely on mass concern, worry, or even some hysteria without relying on a factual basis for that hysteria. Response would not matter since the event would achieve its primary objectives before a response would be mounted against it. What can be seen today is a national if not global "Government must fix this" attitude. Here in the good old USA we don't think local or state governments will fix anything and even those local and state governments are looking for federal solutions. Contrary to popular belief shit rolls both up and down hill. Terror events in the past have been generally local or finely focused on a specific group. A general disregard for borders and factions, that is to say a true assault on society as a whole would have an enormous impact on western society. It would also be politically impossible to solve without a breakdown of political borders. Since terrorists seem to be more imaginative than governments the single spot of hope is that they may have considered that such an act may have just the opposite effect than the one they are trying to achieve. That is, it might actually bring governments closer together. That might be the only reason they would not execute such an attack. There is no direct preventative measure which could prevent such an attack. If it could be stifled in the press, that would suffice to negate it, but that is unlikely here in America. Some reporter would gladly trade national panic for their Woodward and Bernstein moment. As long as we are willing to discuss scenarios where the words won't, can't, must, and law are not used I think we might be able to actually appreciate the potential that could be faced. Of course it would be much easier to just require everyone to play by the rules. --------------------------------------------- Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

Well, not as we know it, but looking at the political environment today it's hard to imagine a scenario where a significant perceived threat would not cause a political knee jerk event similar to that we are seeing with the economy. Congress seems to be very easily maniputlated of late. I perceive a vulnerability in DC that would amplify any event that is even moderately successful. --------------------------------------------- Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

It is not necessary to cause mass casualties or even a single casualty to create an effective event. NBC of any type is quite possible to cause a general panic, and the the easiest is chemical followed by nuclear and then biological. I think Scott makes some good points but they are more militarized application scenarios. Achademic and medical folk like to discuss these events in terms of WHO or CDC protocols for deseases. You can make good copy with some biological agents, but those that are relatively easy to obtain in nature that carry a significant psycological impact are most likely (IMO). These are most likely smallpox or anthrax. Of those two smallpox is the easiest to manage. The point of terrorism is not to kill people, it is create chaos and uncertainty. Killing people just seems to underscore events. Take away the chaos and uncertainty and you immunize the populace against the specific terroist tactic being discussed. --------------------------------------------- Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

In my mind, poor means hungry. I've seen poor, not the the type of poor that doesn't have what everybody else has, but the chronic live in the dust, malnurished, dead by 45 poor. The type of poor that gives a newborn only 3 chances in 10 to make it to their first birthday. So let's start by waking up to the fact that poor is not a relative term and that "American Poor" is an oxymoron. If someone came up to you and said. "Here's $500 bucks." would you take it? If you did, would you feel like a winner or a loser? Would you wonder where it came from? What I found amusing about all the people shouting at the top of their lungs that if we can bail out Wall Street then we shouldn't complain about giving the average Joe a few bucks. What is funny about that position is that it is backwards. If we bail out the abusers and the overconsumers and the others that that take advantage of the system why would we not bail out Wall Street and Detroit? It reminds me of the old joke: He: Would you sleep with me for 20 million dollars? She (sheepishly): Yes. He: Well then, would you sleep with me for 20 cents? She: No, what kind of woman do you think I am? He: We've established what kind of woman that you are, we're just haggling over the price. --------------------------------------------- Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

Anyone here that was in the military in 1973 may have an idea of how serious this could be. While most civilians were talking the same way as most here before during and after the Yom Kippur war, behind the scenes we were closer than the Cuban missile crisis to global conflict. While today's global dynamic does not compare to 1973, regional tensions, economic tensions, and opportunistic regimes in both hemispheres could rapidly escalate if the tinder is set alight. Of course the US would have to give permission to overfly their airspace in Iraq, but they would most likely not shoot down Israeli aircraft if they didn't give it. There is a difference diplomatically. One thing is strategically and tactically certain, conflict or not we are in a better position militarily in that region today than pre-war. I see many comments on the US position referencing Iraq but very little regional strategic discussion. --------------------------------------------- Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

I believe there are three points to the success. The first part is the martial art which is elegant and dynamic. The second part is the mental focus which requires complete mastery and faith in the first part. The third is the physical toughness, the ability to work through a much higher degree of pain than one would really care to experience in civilian training. Combined with other techniques it provides a tool. I see it much like the benefits of judo/karate/tai chi together. That is why SpezNaz combine it with other forms of hand to hand. --------------------------------------------- Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

The Beretta Cx4 Storm is a nice little toy too. I put my ITT night vision on it with a laser sight and it lights up the night through the optics. It also uses the same mags as an M-92 --------------------------------------------- Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

How about taking someone to lunch that didn't get one. After all, they paid for it. --------------------------------------------- Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

Now were getting interesting. There are so many ways that this can go so let's take your second paragraph. If this is a first generation immortal she may not have a complete underestanding of the impact and live her life as if she was "normal" but work on career first since that is the route she took in the first place. Then, once financially secure do the other things in life she wanted to do. If she is beyond first generation immortal I have no reference to form an opinion. --------------------------------------------- Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

In my experience I would say just the opposite. I would say that life and time becomes more worthwhile. You realize the value of life and the value of that which you may have left. You tend to focus more outward and less inward. You tend to see further and realize that you may not travel as far as you can see. You tend to spend the minutes very carefully. Of course this is just one perspective. --------------------------------------------- Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

Oddly enough my wife, a breast cancer survivor was given a 1 in 10 chance before treatment when she was 46 years old (11 years ago). I recently asked her if she were given a chance to be 100% healthy with the physical attributes of a 20 year old but the same experiences and brain that she has now, would she. She said, "No." Not everyone sees life the same way, even those who really do see it as a gift. --------------------------------------------- Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

I don't remember. I think it was a blanket - you gotta be killed, otherwise you own't die - sorta thing. --------------------------------------------- Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

I seem to recall an exercise a few years ago that projected the life expectancy if aging and disease wee eliminated. The number was somewhere around 800 years and the cause of death would be trauma of some sort. Michio Kaku refers to an accumulation of knowledge over time by the human race in his book "Theory of Everything". The idea that where we stand today is the sum total of where we have been in the past. In times like the dark ages when plague killed of a huge portion of the humans on earth, and other times man made such as war the progress was slower and in some cases even reversed. Now imagine that the constant string of progression of knowledge was a species but an individual or group of individuals. An 800 year old Galileo or Einstein or Hawking would not have to be interupted by finding someone capable of understanding their thoughts and studies. They would be able to progress them themselves. I have considered the question of physical immortality in terms of intergalactic or perhaps even interdimentional travel. Consider the ability to transfer the essence of human thought and being to a relatively indestructable form with a millenial power supply. This would impart a manner of immortality. The question that might arise immediately is how to maintain the mental health of such a "being". Immortality does not have to imply ecological armageddon. Would not a person with immortal life have more respect for it rather than less? And could they not find an answer to the question of how to maintain their environment? What keeps coming to mind is a question. If necessity is the mother of invention what inspires creativity if we have everything we want? --------------------------------------------- Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

da tovarish --------------------------------------------- Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

Anyone that has watched the EU and the Soviet Union will likely understand that Brown was speaking of an esoteric concept. When and if it comes it will more likely be a corporate world order and not a government world order. We may actually be seeing the early amalgamation. It would in any case be iterative and a long way off. Obama is going to have his hands full with Washington let alone the Nation. --------------------------------------------- Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

Did you ever have to evacuate a JP5 pump room on a Newport Class LST? How many EAB manifolds in the area effected? How manynon-sub qualified test personel were in that area? Was it Halon/Freon/CO2? There are just too many questions to lay it off on something like lack of familiarity with EAB's --------------------------------------------- Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

And my point is that it is presumptuous to suggest that Russian Sailors are any less qualified than US Sailors. I've been up against these guys and they are good. If they weren't you would never have heard about this incident - they'd all be dead. Think of it like a skydiver - with a little knowledge a skydiver is dangerous and has a very short shelf life. You only get to be lucky a few times. To survive a mal you have to do the right thing in the proper time span. All of our shipmates on Thresher and Scorpion were highly qualified. It's a dangerous job. The events overtook their ability to deal with them but it wasn't because they lacked the skill. --------------------------------------------- Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

Which Russian submarines have you served in? None? Well that makes us even, don't it? Even? Not even close. A submarine of any service is a complex machine. If the crew aboard wasn't qualified and skilled they wouldn't be able to get it out of the port let alone submerge. Comments about skill from someone who is knowledgable is one thing. From someone that doesn't have an understanding of what it takes is just conjecture. Which was my point in asking. --------------------------------------------- Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

For the latter three, yes, absolutely. For the first point, no. A person's skill and competence depend on how well he has been trained, drilled and led. All the will in the world can't make up for major deficiencies in those areas. But that's a side issue anyway. What submarine did you serve on? --------------------------------------------- Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.