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Posts posted by mciocca

  1. Yo scott,

    Shouldnt you be out there working on improving that really bad freefly body position you have as your profile pic, rather than trashing disciplines whithin our sport you have no understanding about? Go do something worthwhile, or is this as close as it gets? :P

    The Sky's Our Playground

  2. ***what really bothers me is that most of the people that post regarding atmo never tried it, or at least never got it right
    for me is a different way of having fun, i did atmo boogies and i loved them!!!


    Melushell...Glad to hear you're having fun with atmo...Hope to see you at more of the upcoming atmo boogies! ;)

    The Sky's Our Playground

  3. *** Saw a video of a Tandem Atmo jump yesterday. No drogue but two other jumpers (in Atmo mode) had no problem keeping up with the fall rate. When the drogue was eventually deployed you noticed how it braked their forward speed considerably.

    Was this a Tandem falling at 80 mph (vertical) without drogue? GPS data would be interesting indeed.


    Atmo tandem without drogue is truly amazing indeed. It is flying at greatly reduced ff speeds, and although not 80mph, 100mph/160kmh is common (with gps data etc). The distances traveled horizontally are quite impressive too.

    It is very common for other atmonauts to join the fun, with docks being a common aspect of the navigation both in frontmo and backmonauti.:)

    The Sky's Our Playground

  4. Quote

    The "automonauts" travel across the sky, endangering other groups that fall down the tube


    Yup, just like tracking and wingsuiting, thats why we've posted the safe flying exit/flight path/break-off sequences etc. They're there for everyones safety. Not just ours.

    they have become the inventors of something

    I havent invented anything bro, I just love what it offers me as a skydiver, and the opportunity to learn something new and dynamic.


    so called "automonauts" (the most retarded term)


    This term was coined almost 10 years ago, and refers to Atmosphere Navigators (Atmo Nauti)...

    REAL instructors don't need to be educated

    I think REAL instructors would beg to differ with your view that instructors should not be educated.


    REAL instructors have an established organization that provides documents


    Yup, you've said it yourself. Thats why these documents are there for everyone to peruse if they choose to do so. Safety was key when they were developed over the course of many years, and to date not one incident has been reported - now thats a good testimony of the practicality of the procedures document.

    Your organization was formed by a few primadonnas

    There is no organization, merely passionate freeflyers/FS/Wingsuiters who participate in this fabulous discipline.


    It's not the job of REAL instructors to police you retards.


    Ok now you're getting interestingly personal. Why dont you post your name, and dz on your profile for all to see mmm?

    instructors don't need to be educated by you dribbling on about lift

    If you read the posts you'll notice I/other 'atmonauts' havent been focusing on the lift properties (other than to answer questions posed), but rather what the inherent beauty of atmo is - extended freefall time, reduced ff speeds, ease of learning curve, sociable (large groups from different disciplines join in the same fun), the amazing dynamism and new skill set required to achieve the multitude of formations etc.

    Now Id like to end off by saying this - post your name so all can see, add value, and STOP insulting the members of this community who are here to share there interests and their passions. Pursue atmo or dont, its up to you, but refrain from the slander bro. Alternatively, slander as much as you please, but state your name, your country, your dz.

    No? I didnt think so.....:P
    The Sky's Our Playground

  5. YOU MEAN The easieast way would be to get some GPS Data from track dives and show them all non-believers


    Good idea bro.. you get the tracking data, we'll get the atmo data and then games on :P

    The Sky's Our Playground

  6. *** The easieast way would be to get some GPS Data from atmonauti dives and show them all non-believers


    Will do... ;)

    The Sky's Our Playground

  7. The reason for being in the instructors forum is to inform the general instructor body of the progression currently employed for the atmo discipline, inclusive of safety procedures and requirements - such as exit, exit order, breakoff, direction of flight, category test requirements for each body position within atmo etc.

    TH instructors at DZ around the world should be up to date with developments in the sport, and thus should have access to this information.

    Ultimately (if you refer to the post at the very beginning of this thread) you will see the general outline of the progression and safe flying procedures currently in use within the atmo community.

    The idea is... we should all read it as instructors/safety officers at our home dz's and have it at the back of our minds for the safe practice of atmo.

    For students/interested skydivers, it is the basis of the progression, and sheds light specific to the requirements etc.
    The Sky's Our Playground

  8. Yes Marco Tiezzi and Marco Ciocca are Italian (not sure which you're referring to - him or I), however I represent South Africa in competition as I am a citizen of that country and am the one I was referring to when talking feet first atmo:P

    Gigliola Borgnis and Davide D'Alessandro (amongst others Im sure) are also developing the feet first atmo on from where Gigliola started it back in 2000 (i think that was the year). We are working towards incorporating feet first atmo into ARW4 (atmo 4-way linked).

    I believe this is a cool aspect specific to the possibilities within atmo, and South Africa can say it was a part of it ;)

    The Sky's Our Playground

  9. Zenister... this is where you've got it wrong.

    It aint a click at all, its for everyone, thats why the atmo progression is posted under the instructors section, and why some have taken their time to post informative information in answer to many of the defamatory remarks.

    You have to appreciate that with anything new there will always be objections, for which reason some of us (who have nothing to gain other than seeing more of our friends joining us on our atmo loads) are taking the time to present what atmo could offer.

    As for the physics - there is more than sufficient info to back up the statements, however the physics are not he important part, its the fun to be had, and the ability for all of us to delve into a new sphere of learning unlike traditional freefall.

    Try it, or dont try it, its your call but try to refrain from commenting until you've actually tried it. You may well change your mind.:)

    The Sky's Our Playground

  10. *** The final touches (so to speak) are being put into writing for an even greater activity

    Spankmonauti - Is the art of correct and secure, safe and educated spanking and erotic discipline


    BEWARE with this kind of talk you might just get one of those skateboardwalkmonauti's to PUMPYOURNAUTI... :P

    The Sky's Our Playground

  11. ***when you post fancy diagrams that directly claim that your trajectory matches your body orientation through a huge range of angles, don't get in a snit when you find yourself the object of ridicule, because you deserve it.


    Your comments ARE confrontational.

    However, it takes a lot more than an insult from an uneducated member of our community to get me in a "snit".

    "Atmonauts" - who are clearly passionate about Atmonauti - are actively pursuing an approach of presenting whatever information is available to the general community and trying to instill a policy if safe flying procedures - for which, according to you, they are being ridiculed for doing so, and deserve it.

    Are you suggesting we let loose a rouge discipline with no information and safety procedures, and no forum for the exchange of beliefs, ideas and informative information?

    PS If you are so lousy at head down like you say you are, and clearly have never tried atmo for yourself or taken the time to train/educate yourself, what makes you think informed individuals of our community are going to take your comments seriously?

    Later dude.

    The Sky's Our Playground

  12. *** Ok, whats the shallowest angle you can actually fly in atmonauti? In other words, how many degrees below the horizon can you actually get your trajectory to point, not just the angle of your body?


    Heres the thing...The idea is pretty much to hang around the 35 - 55 degrees with 45 degrees being the optimum - but it depends on the amount of drag being presented and size/shape of the atmonaut i.e with docks etc which present a fair bit of drag 45 degrees is kinda where you want to be). On no contact low drag jumps with greater forward speed shallower (and steeper just cause its fun ;0) angles are common.

    Atmo -as with modern day canopies - can be flown steeper and shallower as required. In canopy flying the angle of attack/incidence is set to optimum for general flying, but getting on the front risers causes the canopy to surge forward/dive and gather speed, where after getting on rears (flatter flight path relative to ground) causes the canopy to swoop. HOWEVER, as we all know swooping is not indefinite as the forward speed gradually decreases causing the "wing" to eventually stall.

    Its the same for atmo, when diving (taking up steeper angles - usually to come down to a formation, flying in excess of 45 degrees) and then flattening out (35- 10 degrees) the increased airspeed over the "wing" allows for a "swoop" where for a period of time one can comfortable fly at 10 - 20 degrees, but where gradually the flight path becomes stalled (entering freefall). In the sky when this happens its very clear as you can clearly feel the relative wind changing from the head more towads the chest, and one begins to fall behind and below the more "efficient" formation.

    The beauty of atmo is that all angles are possible, however certain angles are just that much more efficient, and allow for a "cleaner" fluid of air over the crest of the head.

    In ending, the whole idea of atmo is to search for the sensation of the most efficient angle/speed that produces the relative wind from head to feet, while retaining freedom of movement with arms and legs for docks transitions etc. Thus, there is no one perfect degree of flight, but rather it is a dynamic use of all the angles during the skydive that allow for proximate flight with your mates.

    So to answer your question in short: Shallow angles such as 10 degrees can be flown, however inefficient they may be after a short while, with the emphasis on more angle (i.e. 45 degrees).

    The Sky's Our Playground

  13. Well, Im proposing its different from tracking in that the body shape, the set up ahead of the lower atmonaut, the fact that one looks to the rear and not the front and curves the body in search of the airfoil shape in all body positions, the relative wind direction, the fact that experienced trackers ALWAYS fall behind and below (come along and you'll see for yourself), the ability to do 3d moves and transitions - all this all done far more efficiently when using the relative wind from the head towards the feet (as in head down) and not in the face and chest (as in tracking) with an inverted wing shape, the moves are so more precise, and one is not limited to using arms and legs to create drag (as in tracking.. ;0) but rather, since the body is doing all the work (and its very perceptible in the sky) it allows for utter freedom (as with head down, where we search direction and proximity with the head and use the arms and legs in a relaxed manner to take docks and control freefall speed etc).

    From this point of view, when comparing the sensation of atmo vs tracking to head down, atmo feels identical due to the relative wind striking the head first and the arms and legs as you would experience in head down. It is in effect a head down form, but at an angle, using whatever lift is available to maintain the relative wind from the crest of the head along the body towards the feet.

    When learning atmo, it is truly amazing to go from track to atmo, and the change in sensation is dramatic. You have to try it (correctly, possibly with a coach/instructor first) to truly appreciate it.
    The Sky's Our Playground

  14. :P

    Dan, no prob bro I wasnt gonna get pissed at you for saying its still tracking. You know we're gonna keep disagreeing ;o), though ultimately its a truly awesome way to skydive and it can be incorporated into freeflying or wingsuiting hybrids, and its a sensation to be truly enjoyed!

    So I say, lets find a way to jump together sometime and we can argue the point over a beer at sunset.

    The Sky's Our Playground

  15. Do these look like tracking jumps to you?

    In atmo the whole experience and training is specific to using the body as an airfoil, which free's the arms and legs to take docks and transition mid flight from frontmonauti to backmonauti to footmonauti with docks in between each move, carving around formations in midflight etc. This is completely unlike tracking.

    Here are also some training pics feet first atmo, I will get hold of some of our training jumps with spocks and post them.


    The Sky's Our Playground

  16. ***The entire basis of the assertion that 'nautmonauts are doing something so special is the claim that they get so much more lift than others have done in tracking dives. This claim is without a basis in truth. To merely acknowledge that there is "some" positive angle of attack does not admit to the large magnitude of the deception.


    Let me're another one of the skygods who has a lot to say but has never even attempted atmo or taken the time to get Atmo instructionals/coaching. Am I right?

    It reminds me of the FS crowd years back, who had a lot to say about head down but had never even attempted it... :P

    First educate yourself, train, and then your comments will be valuable assets to the students of atmonauti. For now all you're doing is using this forum (as with many others) to attack, defame and destabalise the hard work of many. How is that constructive to our sport? It aint.>:(

    The Sky's Our Playground

  17. ***f a 'nautinaut could fly at a true trajectory of 10 deg from horizontal, and their verical speed was 70 mph (I think this is within the range of 'nautinauts claims)


    This is not what is being claimed.

    At 10 degrees the forward speed is too low to produce an efficient lift coefficient for longer than a short while (it results in a stall) and is rarely utilised other than to approach formations from behind or below (no fly zones), thus the most common angle of flight is 45 degrees, which is where most of the flying is done. However, it is possible to fly flatter and steeper than 45.

    If you read the posts you will see that 90mph is the most common speed at around 45 degrees on "half brakes" when taking docks etc.

    Try it out you may surprise yourself.

    The Sky's Our Playground

  18. Whats the point of your continued attack on atmo?

    It would be so much better if you had something worthwhile to add to the benefit of all the students out there other than ridiculing the discipline.
    The Sky's Our Playground

  19. *** why a discussion on this is still going on im not sure


    The reason is its guys like you that badmouth atmo and give us an opportunity to respond with informative discussion. members seem to want to know more and learn, and the approach you're taking just gives us the ammunition we need to respond with detailed info/pics etc.

    Keep up the hard work :P

    The Sky's Our Playground

  20. *** 90mph still doesn't sound that impressive. Good trackers can easily achieve that as well.


    It is when you consider that at those speeds atmonauts are flying on "half brakes" and taking docks and flying large formations.

    As mentioned, it is also common that in these jumps lower speeds are recorded in sections of the skydive, from 75 - 85 mph - again flying intermediated body positions and taking docks etc.

    If you consider the RW aspect of whats going on here and compare it to 120 - 140mph in FS RW and 150 - 200mph in FF RW its pretty good I'd say:)

    The Sky's Our Playground

  21. ;o)

    Where do you find the time to track this stuff down:)
    I think he should be paying some kind of royalty to be using this stuff on Oprah.

    PS Check out the relative wind on Oprahs hair do:P

    The Sky's Our Playground

  22. ***So I really don't understand why DZ.COM let you advertised like that for your own business, because what ever you say this is what you're doing.


    Which business are you referring to...Atmo?

    Atmo is available to everyone, its public domain, for anyone who'd like to try it, and the posted guidlines are for the safe governing of atmo by instructors at DZ's around the world.

    Add value to this forum by asking questions, adding constructive criticism, etc. Dissing atmo does nothing for you or the members on this forum.

    The Sky's Our Playground

  23. Gigliola in "Project Evolution" in 2002,
    flew atmo with an average vertical speed of 140 km/h > 87 mph. It must be noted however that most of these speeds are not max efficiency speeds as atmo is done on "half breaks" so to speak to make speeding up and slowing down in relation to formations possible. Thus on a maxed out atmo flight average ff speeds of less than 87mph should be quite attainable.
    The Sky's Our Playground