JDBoston

I find this point super interesting. It's in line with the big broader societal trend of the middle going away & the ends of the distribution growing.

Mods, feel free to move if this is the wrong forum. I was struck recently by the significant decline in deaths per 100k jumps since I started in the early 2000s (stumbled on https://uspa.org/Discover/FAQs/Safety following a thread from a mainstream news article). I found this surprising & am very curious what high/old-time jumpers, DZOs, S&TAs etc. think of the causes behind this. Changing demographics of jumpers? Better/more training? Absence of certain categories of incident more common in the past? Equipment improvements? More attention paid to minor incidents that form the base of the incident "pyramid" thereby nipping potential later fatalities in the bud? Other?

Rob, great info here, thanks. Understanding that we wouldn't have a sport for very long if every brand new jumper had to watch faces of death, do you have any thoughts on the amount of fear appropriate in training for specific sub disciplines, when people have some jumps under their belt and aren't going to quit? Or do you judge it on a student by student basis?

To try saying it a little differently: I'm all for training recovery from things that can be recovered from. I'm ALSO for training fear by itself, because that little bit of extra pucker factor can keep the base of the accident pyramid smaller, and the really dire situations fewer.

I've jumped at Orange on and off since 2002. Last summer I took my fiancee out there to do a tandem, and I requested Muppet as her instructor. I guess that tells you what I thought of him, despite the fact that he always used to rag on me about how ugly my rig was. He was great - one of those people you always looked forward to seeing when you rolled up in the parking lot. This is a terrible loss. JD

I've spent about 3 years at Jumptown, spread out over a few more than 3. Gary was a generous and humble spirit - always focused on helping the people around him have fun and stay safe. Jumptown will always be "The House that Gary Built"... with a little help from his many friends, and the many people who learned from him over the years. It's a sad day. Joe

I have jumped at about 14 dropzones around the country and I can say that Jumptown is hands-down the best one I've been to. Big-league people (world record participants walking around doing 2 and 3-ways with low-timers) and facilities (Otter all the time, big nice new hangar with all the amenities), but the best vibe I have ever seen in terms of having fun, looking out for each other, and welcoming new jumpers. It is a very unusual place. I jumped there fulltime for about 2 yrs but then moved out of New England.

I just wanted to say that I had a hell of a lot of fun down there. It's good to see Lake Wales back on its feet (pretty much) after the hurricane. I don't know what the rebuilding plans are, but I wish them the best of luck. I also wanted to say to anyone that jumps with Harry Hopkins & Kim and Mary (I don't remember which TX dropzone they jump at, unfortunately) - you lucky bastards. All three of them are wonderful company on the ground and in the air. Their attitudes, personalities, & stories pretty much epitomize what I love about the sport. I'm glad I got to meet them & honored that we got a jump in as well. Anyway, that's all I got. Peace out - Joe

Now THAT's a long drive. Joe

Ian, If you're going to nitpick on linguistic issues.... it's "truly". Love, Joe

Thanks... but it was actually a question for you based on your previous post. Joe

Actually, the answer you get depends on how you define "safer." If by safer you mean "more forgiving of fuckups," I would really like to hear you argue why driving is more dangerous than skydiving. I know more people who have died skydiving than who have died in car accidents... and I know a LOT more people who drive than people who jump. Joe

I think the incident stats are more disproportionate than the participant numbers. One good thing to remember when people start talking about skydiving vs. driving a car is that driving a car you can be dumb or unlucky enough to total the f'in thing and walk away from it. A mistake of that magnitude in skydiving and you are DEAD. You are moving your body faster than it's designed for near other solid objects, and you do not have 3000 pounds of metal and plastic to protect you from impacts. Joe

There were a lot of people at Tyco and Enron who were just doing what they were told too. They did such a good job of it that they got to go to jail. There's no nobility or valid excuse in "just doing your job" when that job is LYING to people. Joe

If anyone would like to make the fine folks at Google aware of specific examples of fraudulent Web related (linking, copying, hijacking, etc.) behavior by Skyride, with the goal of getting Google to blacklist their sites, the appropriate place to send those is: [email protected] My friend at Google tells me they are good about responding to emails sent there, and usually do so within a couple of weeks. Enjoy. Joe

Yep, got this info off a Maryland govt. site. The key stuff for me, though, is characteristics of the properties sold... beds... baths.... etc. I also tried ZipRealty which unfortunately has no sale data for my region (Baltimore - 21230). Joe

Any of you folks want to help a fellow jumper get comp data? I'm looking for some way to get full MLS listings (with asking price, sale price, and all the other goodies) for all properties sold in my ZIP in the last two years. Anyone with MRIS access who can do me that favor? Or any ideas on where I can get that data myself? Thanks! Joe

Bottom line is while they may be bending some rules, they seem to be playing the game very well.. good on them. Flame away. ___________________________________________________ The game of lying, cheating, and stealing, you mean? Yeah, I really admire people who play that game well. Kind of like the folks who call old ladies up and talk them into investing in BS stuff where they lose all their money. Someone might be able to run a business like that on the right side of the law, but they'd still be a edited by Slotperfect. The practices described in this thread are NOT "good hard-nosed competition" - they're sneaky, deceptive, and wrong, and I think it's clear to everyone that they are not isolated incidents, but rather the MO of the people running the business. What part of that strikes you as worth defending? Joe

There are such ways. There are also such things as DOS attacks against web servers hosting Skyride sites, etc. Come on, I know we have some geeks out there!!!! Joe

PLUS I have some beautiful oceanfront property in Arizona I'd like to sell them. I don't pay $1200 for too many things and then NOT use them. I'll resist the temptation to make a tasteless gene pool type joke here. Joe

I guess what it comes down to is that some people are bothered by lying dirtbags, and some people say "hey, what's the big deal". Joe

My unbiased opinion is Jumptown Jumptown Jumptown Jumptown Jumptown Jumptown Jumptown Jumptown. I've jumped at a modest 15 or so DZ's all around the country, and while you can have a great time at many of them, Jumptown is a VERY special place in terms of the friendly, welcoming atmosphere and the skill and experience of the jumpers there. It really is. You're missing out if you DON'T go there, but have fun wherever you go. Joe

I saw Dan Poynter give a presentation that classified the stewardess as a wreckage rider (came down in a piece of the plane). There have been 6 or 7 of those who have survived. According to Dan's presentation, the RAF gunner in WWII was the only documented freefall survivor. Joe

My condolences to everyone who knew him better. I only met him once at The Skydiving Place, but I could tell from the way he treated other people and the way they treated him that he was someone special. What a tragedy. Joe

Yeah, I think the sound of the end cell hitting the hangar echoes around just long enough to keep you from distinctly hearing bones crack. It's something else. Joe