hajnalka

I second the Paraphernalia Softie recommendation. I'm just a rigger, and the above posters are WAY more knowledgeable than me. But Softies are my hands-down favorites due to harness design, comfort for the pilot, canopy construction, PC launch and ease of packing. Butlers are quite good, too. Strongs are OK, but I don't like how the lines stow, I really don't like the external pilot chute and I've seen many weak pilot chute launches on the ground with them. I don't like Nationals. They have a strange Velcro harness adjustment that tears up the webbing and the design absolutely baffles me. I'd tell your friend to get a Softie or a Beta.

Precision Ravens (Raven I, II, II and IV) were all tested and placarded under TSO C23c category B. Limit: 254 lb at 150 kts. Many manufacturers of c cat B reserves would add something to the placard to the effect of "although we're required to state above limits, we don't recommend you exceed X (181 mph) weight at y speed (130 kts) to lower your risk of injury or death." It's really not rocket science to find out what reserves are tested to what TSOs, and what those TSOs state as far as weight/speed. In my 9 years of full-time rigging, I've never seen a canopy TSO'd under C23a. If I ever do, I'll call everyone over and take LOTS of pictures . Good thread with lots of advice to the OP: Bottom line, be comfortable with your reserve. If you're not, get something else and demo if possible. Your Raven I was tested 20% above 254 lb @150 kts, and has saved MANY lives over the years. This is a time-tested reserve that doesn't seem to have exhibited any of the problems of the later raven -Ms, -MZs, SuperRaven or MicroRavens. Whether you feel comfortable landing that square footage with your wingloading and experience level is your personal decision. Best, Dawn

Actually, Brass grommets come standard on the Xaos, (as well as most of Precision's other canopies IIRC), which have HMA lines. The piece about the SS grommets causing faster openings comes directly from them. Thanks for that! - I'd always heard brass/nickle plate was a strict no-no with HMA (from Icarus people) and I've seen them get chewed up by lines many times in the field. Which is why I tell my people to stick with SS. Sounds like I need to do some research. Best, Dawn

The price of EVERYTHING has gone through the roof in just the last 2 years. The "average" person is having a hard time buying groceries and filling their car up with $4/gallon gas. Why do you think gear manufacturers are any different? The price of the raw materials used to build a rig (astronomical, and getting higher all the time) are a sign of the economy in general. Believe me, gear manufacturers are NOT getting rich right now, and I'm sure they hated having to raise their prices. The good people I know working at many of them are all about helping people enter the sport. Things are tough all over Best, Dawn

You're right - you need to use stainless grommets with HMA/Vectran/Technora etc. lines. With Spectra or Dacron you can use brass. Stainless are harder to replace; not all riggers have the means to do this. It sounds like replacing them would be the way to go though, since you are having toggle fires and have trouble getting your slider down. Do you have hooded toggle keepers? If not, that might be a good place to start.

I believe this is because the buyer has the choice of slinks or rapides, and the canopy is packaged ready for quick installation of whichever is supplied. Initial assembly tends to be much simpler than mixing & matching components. But, I do see your point about originally receiving only canopy/card, and how some might think this is how it should be done. Excellent post & thread, thank you! I hope you've educated some people.

Excellent words of wisdom. Bottom line is simple: I seal a rig and sign the card = I deem it airworthy to the best of my knowledge and ability when it leaves my loft. I deal with the 20-yr service life issue all the time - and it's certainly a thorny one! (Oh wait - this is why I get the big bucks, right? ) A standard would certainly make my job easier, but it would be sad to see a bunch of perfectly potentially life-saving 20+ year old reserves immediately grounded ... although I'm sure someone could find good use for them. Best, Dawn

I'd strongly discourage you, and everyone else, from adding inches to your measurements - rather, give them your exact measurements, and tell them how you fly, and what you want the suit to do for you. Any quality FF suit maker will be able to get an idea of your body size and make a suit with the correct amount of drag that you need, if you communicate with them. I've seen quite a few people get in trouble by adding inches to their various measurements, trying to 'second-guess' how the suits are made and how baggy they want them .... and then their suit flat-out doesn't fit/needs a bunch of alterations. Best, Dawn

We have a 111W55 (walking foot) that is a great all-around straight stitch machine. For us it's in between our lighter-duty Consew and heavier-duty Adler that will take 5 cord. It works well with E, FF and 3-cord, and we use it a lot for container repair involving several layers of Cordura and Type 3 (tandem rigs,) and on flaps with stiffeners. I really love the walking foot and the strong solid feed pressure in general: stuff definitely stays put and feeds well once positioned which makes my job easier. Timing and tensioning are straightforward. It's a pretty easy machine to maintain and work on, and parts are easy to find and not expensive. I don't like that it doesn't have reverse. In our long narrow loft our machines are paired up, alternating work area towards the wall or towards the open loft; our 111 has work area toward the wall, which makes getting the tandem rigs in there or flipping thigs around rather challenging so keep that in mind when positioning your machine(s). If I had to choose just one straight stitch machine, this would probably be it because it's so versatile in range - jumpsuits to multiple container layers w/stiffeners. Listen to what Terry said, and good luck. Best, Dawn

Sorry; we ARE working on it. I simply don't know if we have any images that will clarify or add anything. My loft partner has video of Mo's exit, which he just happened to catch prior to videoing a 4-way training jump. It doesn't show much unless you seriously blow up and zoom in on a couple of the frames of his front-flip exit, where you can see the loosely attached hackey catching air as he rotates forward, and about 1/2" of the white PC starting to leave the pouch. Vid's not great quality and our viewing was done on a sophisticated Mac, so not sure it would even translate well via the Internet (we're total novices at video.) We were just intent at the time at trying to understand Mo's premature. We'll certainly give Mo that footage this weekend. Maybe/hopefully some of our experienced/talented videographers will want to step in and make those frames more clear, so they can be shared .... (If you watch the video real-time, you wouldn't notice a thing.) Sorry I can't be more helpful right now - Best, Dawn Editing to add: The tapes holding Mo's hackey to the PC apex were quite loose (more than 1/2" of play on the ground) and I believe this contributed to his premature. Not good to have a handle bouncing around in your relative wind, esp. with radical exits and FF maneuvers. Everyone should be able to tell if they have a loose hackey relative to their PC, and any rigger will be able to fix this, or the hackey attachment tapes can even be hand-tacked hard up inside the PC to make it tight to the apex. Better yet: get a freefly pud!

It's true that Cordura is more durable than spandex. However, many components of a rig are subject to wear & tear and will need refurbishment/replacement over the life of the rig (PC/kill line/bridle, links, main risers, toggle-keepers, BOCs, etc.) IMO it's better at the outset to think about how the components are secure and will work for you right now: and understand that there WILL be occasional maintenance/rigging work needed on your life-saving equipment over the next several hundred jumps. Best, Dawn

Standard rig, with all equipment (PC, etc.) made by the mf, and canopies installed/packed by them ... basically a complete rig, sent to this guy by the mf ready to jump. I'm NOT trying to slam a gear manufacturer - seriously. I just don't like a cordura BOC on any rig, and that's strictly MY opinion. And I may have been misleading when I said 'loose.' I mean the whole BOC in general, not the elastic opening - specifically I meant the "body" that holds the bulk of the PC, and not the "mouth" from which it's extracted. A cordura "body" BOC IS loose, and doesn't hold the bulk of the stowed PC well, and I like a spandex pouch much better. The mouth/opening can be tight as anything, but there is nothing in the "body" of a cordura BOC to hold the folded PC in place. Again, this is ONLY my opinion. I'm not sponsored or affiliated, and don't have any agenda - I just want jumpers to be safe as possible. At my DZ we just relearned that flopping hackeys and loose BOCs can be dangerous, even on a brand new rig, and I posted in the interest of safety .... the OP did have a VERY hard premature that could have caused injury. I love secure handles, good bridle protection, ff puds with secure tuck tabs, and tight BOCs. Not knocking any manufacturer. I don't like the cordura BOCs on any rig. Again, just my opinion. Peace, Dawn

I'm one of Mo's (OP's) riggers. I wasn't there when he had his premature, but I saw him hurting afterwards . It was obvious to me that he'd had a very hard opening when I saw the damage to his risers - major stitching had broken and pulled apart from the C/A insert channel to the back of the riser - up to 2.5 inches - not structural, but pretty dramatic. I REALLY don't like a Cordura BOC pouch. The elastic mouth might keep the PC in place, but in my opinion I like a well- folded PC to remain well-folded, and with this voluminous loose Cordura pouch that just can't happen. In addition, the OP had an original mf ZP PC. The hackey handle was quite loosely attached to this PC with a good inch of play. We have video (very poor quality) that seems to show the hackey catching some relative wind and starting to extract the PC right on exit from the CASA before he started doing any radical maneuvers. I can't claim to know what happened with this premature deployment, but again I really don't like the Cordura pouch ... on any rig ... I just don't think it can "hold" a PC like a spandex pouch can. My opinion. Note: If you reach high FF speeds and/or do radical maneuvers, get a freefly pud that tucks into your rig! There was a lot of discussion 2 PIA's ago about ZP vs F111 PCs, BOCs, and premature deployments. I'm going to go dig up my notes. Stay safe. Best, Dawn

To the OP: In my opinion, ANY canopy can open hard, based on MANY variables. I have seen a Spectre open hard enough to cause canopy damage and injury (we suspect slider was not fully un-collapsed when packed.) As a rigger and used gear seller, I wouldn't hesitate to sell this canopy as long as you feel the buyer fully understands what he/she is getting. Anymore I steer people away from F111 mains, but know a few newer jumpers who have greatly mastered canopy control because it's all they could afford at the time. As ever, wingloading is a huge factor. I have had experienced jumpers reject new or used Spectres, Sabre 2s, and especially Icarus canopies because they just opened too slowly for the jumper's comfort level. I no longer jump, but did AFF on a 7-cell F111 Sharpchuter that opened so hard I had permament bruises around my thighs and shoulders. I cringed when pulling. I feel your pain Basically, if your 9-cell FC canopy is in good shape, it should be perfect for someone and some purpose out there. Kudos to you for having a conscience when selling used gear. Best, Dawn

It depends on the dimensions of the D-bag. If the depth and thickness is close looks ok,but if its deeper than the thickness and filled up fully than I'd rather rotate to the bridle to reserve position. Great point, I've seen a few people with thin, tall bags pack grommet-up -- which the rig was not designed for -- causing cracked stiffeners/damage to the side flaps which I've had to repair. -D

Did you try DJ Associates? http://djassociates.thomasnet.com/viewitems/webbing-and-tape/nylon-webbing?&forward=1 They list black, white, and olive drab in all of the webbing types and treatments on the page. I can vouch that they have competitive prices and awesome customer service; I love these guys. You'll probably have to call them for pricing; also not sure how small a quantity of Ty VII they'd sell ya. Best, Dawn

Chris - One newsletter pertaining to pencil-packing is attached. All of our newsletters are archived here: http://web.mac.com/downwindnc/Downwindnc/Downwind_Newsletters_and_safety_artilces.html Warning: We're definitely NOT politically correct, and opinions are just that .... John's and my opinions. Best, Dawn

I also agree with Gus - great post. First time I learned someone pencil-packed my name on a data card, it was several years ago and the jumper was out of town at an NSL 4-way meet where they were under huge pressure to jump, and I can understand that. Thing was, their Cypres was in date when I repacked the rig ... when they penciled it, the Cypres was overdue for batteries . Rendering the data card illegal due to the forged entry, and making me look illegal/negligent if something had happened, with the overdue AAD. To this person's credit they called me after the meet, admitting the pencil pack, and brought me their rig. We had a long talk to the benefit and education of everyone involved, and the education spread. I care greatly about safety and that's why I'm a rigger. I believe my customers know that. I've sent a few newsletters to our mailing list dealing with all of the implications of pencil-packing, and why we flat refuse, and why we've turned away those few customers who've pencil packed (forged) our info --- and these have never been regulars, they're mostly people passing thru from boogie to boogie, who could care less who last repacked their rig anyway. This is a nasty issue for me, due to a recent occurrence: I had an apprentice who did awesome, careful repacks, was smart and conscientious, knew a lot about gear, and who I thought would make a great rigger. I spent a lot of time with him. Then one Friday his girlfriend showed up with a local jumper's rig. She said, "Hey, (apprentice) was going to come out and pack (local jumper's) reserve with you this week, but he didn't have time. She's going to jump this weekend at (X) event, so could you guys get it packed up today, or else pencil pack it for the weekend?" So here I had an apprentice not only soliciting repacks for himself from his friends (my customers,) but trying to direct me to pencil pack. If you want to become a rigger, I will no longer supervise your reserve pack job unless you pay my monthly mortgage in advance, service all my sewing machines, walk my dogs twice a day, and make new quick loops for and re-tack the caps on all Racer pilot chutes in the 5-state area. And depending on my mood I might also want $1000 up front. Sorry for the rant. This was one of the most rotten experiences I've had in all my years as a rigger. -D

And here I thought this fairytale principle that the air molecules moving over the top and bottom of a wing had to magically "meet up" exactly somehow after, like they had a date for coffee -- making excuses for being late, due to velocity and pressure, etc. -- had been debunked years ago . Thanks, Samurai136, for reinforcing everything I learned in college physics, and for helping my really smart friends that are trying to help me 'get' flight. Seriously.

J, I LOVE your spirit

Agreed X 3. We don't see them much in NC anymore, but I've always found them fun and easy to pack. I do remember a frustrating time with a very small Reflex in my earlier days where the top part of the pin was inaccessible after closing, making it a challenge to apply my seal thread. I later found a manual addendum warning about that very issue. So, to any new Reflex riggers out there: make sure you'll have access above the top of the pin after closing. If not, larksheading your seal thread on there before inserting the ripcord will definitely save you a headache!

Wow. Somehow, that really "speaks" to me. Can I use it as my new sig?

Rob - Thank you for posting that, about diaper vs. container stows. When I was a new rigger I was advised not to pack a sport rig w/round reserve with container stows. I didn't have any hard data on hand to compare container, partial or full diaper, but getting the canopy away from container and jumper before the lines start to unstow seemed intuitively a good thing! I deferred to the judgement of people who know much, much more than me - esp. Manly Butler, who does a lot of drop-testing at our DZ. (I figured the man knew his rounds

This is not even funny. I've only ever seen 2 canopies fail pH in my loft - The first one was sent back to the manufacturer. The second one we kept because it seemed solid/passed pull tests. Next week it pulled apart like tissue paper in my hands. Please be careful. PM me if you want. Best, D

We do a bunch, mostly for glider and aerobatic pilots. While we don't pack rounds every week, it averages out to much more than one/wk over a year. i.e. we might have one guy bring in 10 rigs at once, right before an event or competition. (Is there some secret FAA cabal? I don't know, neither am I involved!) We also have more than a few paraglider and hang-glider customers. Many different deployment systems, but the reserve canopies are similar smaller rounds, usually with pulled down apex. (Huge shout out to Betty at High Energy Sports for her help and knowledge over the years.) Some of them have told us that they'd tried riggers closer to their area who wouldn't touch their stuff because it isn't TSO'd, much like BASE gear. I always tell the aerobatic and glider guys that I KNOW they would sooner use their rig to beat out flames in the cockpit, rather than abandon their aircraft. Not kidding. Then I try to educate them on getting out, deploying and landing their parachute if they need to. Thankfully, the last time I packed a round reserve into a sport container was 4 years ago. I might get flamed for this, but I don't plan on doing that again