popsjumper

You know what?

Fuck it. There's no point in putting up with DSE's asshole, arrogant
bullshit.

^^]
Agreed, wholeheartedly.

OK, I hear ya'. Point taken.

Straight to video?

At Spaceland, look up Chuck Akers and pick his brain. You'll be glad you did.

What in the hell is wrong with you? Are you mentally unstable?

Take your crap somewhere else. You stalk me and are trying to kill another thread. It's childish. You have no business being a greenie.

WTF do you have to do with AFF anyway. Stick to your self-designated "wingsuit instuctor" business.

You obviously have nothing to add for AFF. You just want to tear down.
Go away.

ufk22

Can things be improved?
Always.
BUT....
What you seem to be missing is that an AFFI rating does not mean you are now the perfect teacher (or ever will be by some people's standards).

No, not missing that at all.

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...and I fully expect any and all new rating holders to make mistakes (hopefully not as many as I've made over the years) but not to make the same one twice. That's all I can ask of them.

Agreed

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Otherwise, setting the bar so high that is a lot more expensive isn't the answer.
Setting the bar so high that no one qualifies isn't the answer.
Holding the world to a standard that that I won't/don't hold myself to isn't either.

Setting the bar higher is the goal and that has nothing to do with expense.
Holding the "world" to a standard is best...and that has nothing to do with what your standards are.

Got anything besides the S&TA bit that will help improve?
Thanks in advance.

What to work on?
-Did they give you an A-license Progression Card?
THAT'S what you need to work on.

-Please thoroughly learn the knowledge-based information.
I can't emphasize that enough.

-Get as much canopy flight learning done as quickly as you can.

-Drill, drill, drill emergency procedures.


And welcome to the Big Blue Skies!

baronn

We've all met this person....Hyper critical of everyone and constantly trying to talk over everyone else. Publicly bad mouthing other's in front of customers and anyone else in earshot. Can't talk enough about their own adventures and of course, how totally badass they were. Anyone else ever meet this guy?

Why, yes, yes I have...in here as a matter of fact.

Oh..the standard,
Stu: "I didn't hear it.".
AFFI: Funny, I could hear if on the ground.

Rarely seen that where it actually uncocks the PC. Color disappears? yeah but that doesn't mean it's not cocked...it means you should check it for sure.

DSE

Should the AFF standard be raised? That's really the point of your debate, isn't it?

Yes. Exactly.

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I feel it has room for improvement, of course.

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Is it acceptable for the precourse and course to be held back to back? It certainly is. In general, the course program works. What candidates do or don't do with the information, how they implement the techniques, is entirely up to the candidate afterwards.

OK..that's how you feel.

I'll ask: How many pre-course jumps do you want?
Which do you think is the better idea:
- turning them out on the students with only a limited number of AAF-related jumps.
- turning them out on the students with a defined time for additional practice and experience?

You're right, there is not a lot right now that can be done about how the techniques are implemented in the field.

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Whether you like it or not, financial feasibility _must_ be a part of the conversation. If you want a stellar, significantly-improve-the-candidate course, then it adds length to the course, which in turn tremendously increases cost.

OK, I get you...considering costs and back-to-back, what suggestions do you have to improve the training?

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How many USPA AFFIC have you attended that has inspired your negative view of the program?

Yes, this kind of stuff is what I meant about the tool". You sound like nobody but you has any right to question anything. Knock off the arrogant, holier-than-thou BS.

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Are you willing to pay 8-10K$ for a rating that won't provide a whole lot more than a minimum wage return?

???????
You must be talking about I/E. Not the topic here.

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Any idiot can sit behind a keyboard and spew how much better they are than anyone else, Andy.

Do you even see the irony here?
Can you show us where anyone in this thread has done that besides you?

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People who actually do teach and have passion to make a change get up off their asses, attend meetings, make attempts to understand the process, and actually do make differences.

They also do research - poll, gather facts and opinions, review and finalize and draw up proposals which is what is going on here by people who believe a change is needed.

If you have done some groundwork in this area, why don't you share it with us instead of complaining that others don't yet have it? We are trying to get something done here. If you have help, please input, otherwise, please quit wasting bandwidth with the negativity.

Deisel

I disagree with the entire concept of showing up already trained. If you want to learn something, you go to school. Where exactly is AFFI school? There should be somewhere that individuals can go to receive proper training and education. .

Currently, the training is the AFFI Pre-course.
Yes, you should be already prepared when you take the AFFIC.

stayhigh

Horrible policy,

Who compensate you for missed out tandem jump or camera jump???

Who compensates you for used pack job and used line set??

Apparently you are in it only for the money.

skyjumpenfool

******Ok. So how do you accomodate the OP? A coach on a small DZ that cant get enough student jums to meet the currency requirement? .....

Simple.

You don't.

Coach jumps are about the STUDENT, not the Coach.

Hmmm? I'm not sure I agree with you Pops... Sounds like he wants to be a coach? Desire is 98% of the battle. Maybe he needs to switch DZ's? Maybe he needs to work closer with his DZO? Or, maybe he needs to jump more?

I just hate to advise him to give up or say "there's nothing for you here".
That's not what I was saying nor what the OP was saying.

It's that WE serve the students needs. The students don't swerve the Coach's needs. Nothing more than that intended.

Maybe I should have said "can't" instead of "don't".

The faulk04's DZ apparently may not get enough Coach jump opportunities for every Coach to meet the requirements. What could we do anyway?

One step further though, along the lines of the thought you brought up. I'd have to ask about motivation. What is your motivation to get the coach rating - to help students, or for the money? You don't have to guess the appropriate answer, right?
Hence, WE swerve the students needs.

theonlyski

******this

plus it's nice to go back and read about a fun jump you made with someone that you're never going to jump with again

...and get signatures of the rich and famous.
Some don't even charge you!

I do, but you get a free repack with signature purchase.

Best deal surprise ever!

c15ammarty

Also, would installing new ones be self explanatory or should I have a rigger assist me with them?

You are obviously a young jumper and have not been taught these things as yet.

Stop what you are doing and talk to a rigger.
Buying the main slinks now is not a bad idea but before you do anything else...see the rigger and have him show you what's what.

This is too important to be guessing and hoping it's right. Get it wrong and.....

mattjw916

this

plus it's nice to go back and read about a fun jump you made with someone that you're never going to jump with again

...and get signatures of the rich and famous.
Some don't even charge you!

darkwing

I guess I can see how a modern "working" jumper, such as a tandem instructor, might have trouble getting motivated to log significant info.

BRAIN FLASH!

Voice recorder.
Your SO can transcribe when you get home!

We've touched on it but not discussed in any depth yet:
General skydiving knowledge.

So far it seems that most agree that this is an area that could be improved, is that right?

We know all about the open book tests for the courses...pretty meaningless, IMO, would you agree?

- Make it a pre-req to know the SIM (you could specify sections, I guess)
- Dump the open book test.
- Write a general knowledge test to be taken 1st day of the course.

You could do this for both courses with the level of expertise expected in line with what is applicable to that particular rating.

- What does a Coach need to know to perform all Coach duties?
Test for it.

- What does an AFFI need to know to perform all AFFI duties?
Test for it.

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We have that now. It's called "Pre-course" and "Course."

Had you read the thread you'd have seen that was said more than once.

And don't think that separating them in time is the only idea.
There's a lot of other things that could go towards improving.

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You're not happy with it.

Dude. There you go with your presumptions...never learn, eh?
It's about the students, not you, not me. STUDENTS.

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Separating the two by a week, month, whatever...makes it financially impractical for anyone who is a "traveling examiner" and for those that would be candidates for the course.

Finally an opinion about the topic.
So you are of the opinion that taking the pre-course and the course back-to-back is OK? Keep the status quo? No improvement needed, is that your opinion?
Cool...that's a couple or so.

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Wanting to improve things is terrific, and there probably are much better answers out there, particularly with technology.
However....

.
In your haste to again be the denigrating, condescending tool, you have missed the obvious...this IS a thread for getting input, putting it up for discussion and possibly coming up with some ideas on how to improve things with the most positive impact.

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You cannot weed out 'poor' from the process. All you can do is make the best standard that is attainable within the pool of candidates, their fiscal ability, and their geographic availability.

That's not correct.

The "poor" are here because of the low expectations to be met. We do not have "best standard that is attainable". We are here to serve the needs of the students. Not, the candidates, not USPA, and not the DZs (although, yes, many, many would argue that from several angles.)

What this is all. about is to get closer to that "best standard that is attainable". You've provided nothing except negativity.

Got any positive/new ideas?

Deisel

Ok. So how do you accomodate the OP? A coach on a small DZ that cant get enough student jums to meet the currency requirement? .....

Simple.

You don't.

Coach jumps are about the STUDENT, not the Coach.

I'm a tree hugger.


Started out trying to squeeze something more than "formation" on those skinny lines in the logbook. Gave it up...
Jump 30 pull at 1.9.
Jump 31 pull at 2.2
etc., etc.

Later years we had those fancy ones and wrote paragraphs for a thousand or so, then...
Jump#x - 36-way
Jump#x - 120-way
Jump#x - Cutaway. Thanks, Chad.
Jump#x - Gas station at Fitz
Jump#x - Bail at 1.7
Jump#x - Sit
Jump#x - Coach A. XYZ
Jump#x - AFF L1 A. XYZ with Dave K.
Jump #999999999 - Ga. POPs record Fitz

Nice to end it on an upswing.

davelepka

there's a written curriculum for that, and as such it's easy to teach that material in a classroom setting. Most candidates will know the material already,...

This is the hole that needs plugging. It's what generated this whole discussion. You would think that was true but there seems to be too many cases where they don't.

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That's why there should be a firm 'start date' where the practice jumps end for everyone.

You keep saying that and I keep saying that two distinct courses would solve that problem. You learn at one, you test at the other. Training class starts date XX, testing starts date YY. That would take that option you are arguing against right out of the equation because it DOES have definite start dates.

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As it sits now, they show up sort-of ready and then do prep dives until they feel good.

We've been through this already. Personally, re-thinking, I see no value in limiting training. Train for a month if you like...it can only help. It has always been "sort-of ready" for training by the vast, vast majority of candidates.

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The simpler solution is the one I outlined above where there is a hard 'start date'.

I guess what you are saying here is maintain the back-to-back training and test just put a hard stop date to training and start testing.
Geez...that's what we have now in many cases. No difference.

AND it does nothing to promote better AFFI skills AND knowledge which is the point of all this.

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You must begin with where you want to end. This is what we must first agree on and how we get there is a secondary concern.

Thanks. Some reasoning. Thanks again.
That's why they pay you the big bucks, eh?

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The end point is an AFFI that can do what exactly?

At minimum:
-Teach FJC
-Teach all in-air levels of Harness Hold student training
(note this includes canopy work)
-Perform all in-air skills of Harness Hold student training
-Teach general skydiving information up to and including all student sign-off requirements for licensing.