LiveLifeGoJump

Sorry to loose you to the flying side (perhaps you will become a jump pilot at a DZ) at least you haven't gone over to 'the dark side' (microlights). Pilots usually fly quite high above the ground so won't you still be afraid? They say taking off & flying is easy, landing a plane is the hard part. That said, it makes sense to get out! My fear is not of heights but of falling, sounds daft but it scares the living daylights out of me looking out of the window of a multistorey block of flats if i'm above the third floor (fear kick in above 25ft). Skydiving doesn't involve falling, you float and the ground come UP to meet you (at about 120 mph). Only you know what is best for you. A brave person walks away from things they don't want to do, a fool does them. Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help.

2 more than me then, I'mjealous. Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help.

WOW That's a clever little trick but can you increase the size of the text in the edit box of the 'post message' facility without increasing all the rest? Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help.

Yes I've got a reply. SNAP. I'm watching several threads but never get an e-mail, even when someone responds directly to one of my posts. Hope it can be sorted! (wonder if it's worth watching this thread?) Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help.

and the type of jump the skydiver intends to do is a major factor to be considered when attempting to achieve horizontal separation. If this were not the case then it wouldn't matter what order the jumpers exited. I did not mean that jumpers should have 'heads on swivels' & 'be fitted with rear view (up, down & sideways) mirrors'. What I did mean is that they should be aware of what others are intending to do (especially the jumper(s) immediately before & after them), know what is happening in their 'pocket of air' (RW or FF group) & watch where they are going on separation at breakoff. Surely that is realistic? It would to the last out if he were so deep that he had no option but to land out which does happen when groups 'faff on' in the door. Taking the 'what if' line of thought to the extreme then NO ONE WOULD JUMP. This is why experience has help us to set a (relatively) safe jump order which most jumpers/DZs follow. Does this mean a solo jumper pulling at 7K should exit after RW groups and before FF groups. If that is the case then why is it normal practice for tandems to exit last (their fall rate being about equal to a solo flat) or level 1-3 AFF just prior to tandems when their fall rate is about equal to a RW 3 way? I understood it to be that as they pull high a deeper spot helps helps prevent them being blow downwind of the DZ in the (normally) stronger wind at 4-5,000 ft ( as well as reducing the risk of a head down FF whizzing through their canopy at 180 mph). . Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help.

Correct me if i'm wrong but in the UK, under the BPA rules, there must be a JM (normally the most experienced) on every lift. I would have thought this was the case everywhere but rules do vary in other countries. I believe it makes sense and it does usually stop discussions on run in. A jumpmaster can't make you jump but he CAN stop you, after all he is in charge og the lift! Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help.

I agree with most replies slow horizontal with fast vertical = classic PLF. Fast horizontal with slow vertical = modified PLF/slide. but bare this in mind. I slid out fast horizantal slow vertical speed landing (light wind and flared slightly low) in long grass & waterlogged ground. Ended up with a VERY wet bottom. Not a high price to pay for a painfree landing but 2 inches in front of my 'wedding tackle' was a rocking sticking 4 ins out of the ground. Getting more briefs on flaring for landing means I stand up more, PLF when I can't and avoid butt slides if posible. Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help.

Watching low turn videos of how to & how not to do them, along with full briefings from 'the experts' (the people who really know about them, not the sub 100 jump person who did one and got away with it) will help those skydivers with enough experience and to want to do low turns, do them as safely as posible. I was taught the best time to aviod a lanfing hazzard was while you are still above 200 ft & not on final approach. The problem of using low turns, as an avoidance manouver , is target fixation whereby you either fly straight into the hazzard (knowing you are going to hit it but not doing anything to avoid it) or take action to avoid it at the last posible second. Aren't low turns mainly use to build up momentum for swooping? I believe Rickster Powell (King of the swoop?) said something to the effect to be good at swooping, knowing when NOT to swoop was just as important as knowing how to'. Surely then knowing when NOT to turn low is just as important as knowing how to! I accept that there may be the odd ocassion when things go really wrong and you have no option but to land in an area full of hazzards but these are the exception & not the rule. . Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help.

Ref: By the way, the RAPS method sounds scary as fuck! Man, I'm glad I'm going the AFF route! It wasn't the RAPS system or the jumping out of the plane that scared me. It was the ride up, I mean, what if I fell out? How would I cope? Was falling & jumping THAT much different? Yes it was. One was MY choice the would not have been. What help me get over the fear of falling out, was it more altitude? NO Two consecutive 5 second delays from 2K2 (cloudscrapers). RAPS has some advantages over AFF (although AFF is probably the best way into the sport if you have the money spare). BIG SMILE, RELAX & ENJOY IT & the dive will work. You seem to know what YOU want to do, do it, have fun & stay safe. . Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help.

One reason for a newly qualified skydiver to buy secondhand is that until you have gained enough canopy skills & jump experience it is not always posible to hire & jump club kit as and when you need it and it is not advisable to go from a student freefall canopy (280sq ft?) to a high performance (120 or smaller) canopy. If you downsize on hire kit then buy a secondhand kit (170sq ft main) then get plenty of experience jumping that you can then downsize further by borrowing friends/test rigs to help decide what size to buy new. Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help.

I progressed through the raps system. It took me more than 20 jumps to get on to freefall. My freefalls were 'less than perfect, rocking, turning, backsliding etc. the more I tried to correct the problem the worse it got, the worse it got the more scared I was of failing on the next jump, fear of failing made things worse. I had to find something that would work or stop skydiving. This is what I did. At home I sat in a darkened room, closed my eyes and though my way through the jump from kit on to taking control of a good canopy. I did this 4 or 5 times every night for a couple of weeks. On my next jump I still had problems (rocking & turning) but instaed of fighting it as I would normally have done I RELAXED, ARCHED, SMILED a BIG SMILE & ENJOYED the dive just as I had mentally practice at home. IT WORKED I was rock steady & locked on heading (I just gave up on any manouver I should have attempted). Stayed that way till pull height. Try it, especially the BIG SMILE, RELAX, ARCH & ENJOY. Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help.

I got into skydiving the RAPS way, no instructors holding me. I struggled with my eixts but kept trying till I could do them stable out of the plane, then I HAD to do an unstable exit (easy after all the practice I'd had). The main thing is that you get stable for the pull. In the plane I was so scared that I was going to pack in jumping after each one of my first 85 jumps but as soon as the cut was called I knew 'I'd be back'. Jump when YOU feel ready, not when others tell you you are ready. Talk to your instructor BEFORE you decide whether to jump again or quit jumping. DO WHAT YOU DO BECAUSE YOU WANT TO DO IT, NOT BECAUSE OTHERS WANT YOU TO DO IT. OK so the jump didn't go according to plan, did you enjoy it? Do YOU WANT to jump again? Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help.

Here's a new though to consider. How about ALL jumpers on the lift telling the JM what they are doing and their intended deployment height then he will set the exit order. JM is normally the most experienced jumper on the lift & he SHOULD know, if he doesn't then tell him to read AggieDave's reply (perhaps the list could include 2a solo flats [as this is not strictly a small RW] & 3a solo FF). Re Sundevil777 'If you are belly flying after a freeflyer, then you are likely to be relatively close to their 'column'. If they should happen to pull early, then you are screwed. ' The exit order is based on the type of jumps the skydivers intend to do, they should not alter it 'mid jump' unless something goes wrong and they have to. All skydivers must be 'heads up' (taking notice of what's happening around them) at all times. No good thinking 'what if this happens' otherwise jump order woud be 'one out per pass, only one person in the air at any time' (no AFF, RW CReW, formation FF etc.). Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help.

Know how you feel, I was the same after suspended harness training. Stretching does work, as does a big relaxed arch. Worth it all the same isn't it? Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help.

There is nothing to stop you jumping at another DZ but your would probably have to go through there training course to satisfy them that you have learned all you need to. The only way you would be prevented from jumping anywhere is if your actions were dangerous. At our centre we have had people refuse 1 or more times and have gone on to get their cat 8. Even in a C172 (like C182 but slightly smaller) there is enought space to shuffle if number 1 refuses. All that happens then is the instructor has to land with his student. The decision as to wheter of not the jumper who refused is allowed to jump again (at that centre) would be made after a full debrief ,additional retrainiing and assesment as to wheter they would refuse again. Any centre not doing this does not deserve your custom. You should be given a second chance FREE, any further refusals should then be billed at the normal student rate, that way the centre does not lose (but the instructor may miss his 'free lob' and give you a good kicking behind the packing shed [unofficially of course]). Remember then instructor can stop you jumping but CAN'T MAKE YOU. ALL jumper should check just before exiting the aircraft & choose to jump, not just because the instrustor/JM said GO. It's OK to be scared when jumping out of a plane, the time to stop is when you are not. Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help.

Judging by the response this question has received the it confirms that there is no hard & fast rule about it. Whether you keep the handle & pad depends on the situation you are in and, as no two mals are the same then no single answer is would fit all events. It's your life so it's your decision, If it's safe to keep them then keep them, if not then throw them when it's safe or necessary to throw them. I've not had a reserve ride yet but had to grab handles due to a bad snivel burning up 1,200ft before opening fully. Decision to wait before pulling reserve was a conscious one based on opening height, wind speed, available safe landing area etc (cost of reserve re-pack did enter my head as well). Had the situation been different then so would my reaction. Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help.

Hi In England you have to have a BPA packing certificate to pack mains to be jumped by others. A log book endorsement is all that is needed if YOU are the only person to jump what you pack. I have taught many people to pack at my home DZ. We have to carry out checks at 4 stages and sign for each check. First packing lesson usually takes 1.5hrs and at the end of it the rig is ticketed and ready for jumping provided the following question is answered by the trainee. Would you jump that kit? If their answer is no, regardless of how good the pack job is, the kit is pulled out as it is a BAD PACK JOB. I wait until I the kit has been pulled out or the trainee answers 'YES he would jump it' before I say whether I will sign the checks (I will only sign if I were prepared to jump it). I still ask myself on completion of each & every pack job 'would I be prepared to jump it' and will only put the ticket on if my answer is yes. I also encourage the trainee to jump their own pack job but this is not always possible. Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help.

Hi Here in England it is sometimes necessary to lob out at 2,500 ft (2k2 cloud scrapers from a Cessna182 are more fun that not jumping from 14K) in order to get a jump in that day. I have known some who launch a 2 way sit fly at 5K. Not the best thing to do, mix sit with flat. I'd have though if you are jumping for the first time with another jumper then exit altitude would be much higher unless both jumpers had high (250+) jump numbers. Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help.

Hi Have read most of the replies and as always they are right, for them that is. What is right for you is what YOU are comfortable with. I am comfortable pulling at 3K as this allows me time to deal with the canopy opening and getting settled (collapse slider, ALL ROUND OBSERVATION, release brakes etc.). Some replies seem to suggest that the jumper sometimes pulled lower or higher according to the situation. Is this a good idea? When did they decide at what altitude to pull? Please remember the following points. 1: Pull at the height YOU are comfortable with. 2: Base it on your confidence, experience & equipment. 3: Remember the spot is set for jumpers opening at approx. 3K (well ours is!), higher or lower than that may cause off landings due to upper wind speeds. 4: Find out what height others are pulling at & let them know what height you are pulling at. 5: STICK TO THAT HEIGHT provided it is safe to do so. Don't change your mind in freefall without good reason. 6: By 50 jumps you should be comfortable pulling at 3K (which seems to be the normal these days). 7: Dumping higher doesn't make you a bad person (unless you didn't tell the other jumpers). Be dead COOL not DEAD cool. 8: If you can see the whites of the spectators eyes then you've probably left it a bit late. 9: If a tandem freefalls through your canopy you probably pulled to high. 10: If you don't pull, grab the grass. They say it's the bounce that kills you. Don't rely on it though.

Hi Fully skilled skydivers!!! Where are they? Even jumpers with 14,000 (yes fourteen thousand) jumps are still 'learning all the time'. In a diverse sport like skydiving there is so much to learn you could spend a lifetime and still learn something new on your last ever jump. The sport does not suit everybody and each method (AFF, SL or Tandem) has different 'FEAR FACTORS'. I personally never had any fear of getting out of the aircraft, the ride up to altitude was a different matter. I was terrified of falling out. Whether you daughter chooses AFF or S/L she will not qualify for her CAT8 in less than 18 jumps. If money is no object then AFF is the fast track way but if money is short then S/L may be a better option, she can then subsidize her jumping costs by learning to pack as she progresses through the training. It is best getting into the sport young, taking it SAFE & steady. That way she can walk away form it when the time suits her. Blue Skies Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help.

That's going to upset a few reserve packers, do you pack your own? Might be a good idea to start now!!!!!!! Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help.

I started jumping some 8 years ago and because we were unable to jump on the Sunday the (previous) owner opened up on the Monday morning, put two lifts up in the Cessna 182 then closed the centre. The number of people who came down to operate the centre (no chance of them jumping) amased me. Even with the change of ownership and large increase in the number regular jumpers it has remained a friendly centre. Bar, camping & shower facilities plus the coaching seminars etc. that Ian has organised all help to make this a fast growing centre. A hard 'all weather' runway (nearing completion July 04) will make a big difference, allowing us to operate on days when the waterlogged grass strip would normally prevent take off (or force us to fly with light loads). There is even a door due to be fitted to the Cessna (yeh, you've heard that one before but this time it is [almost] true, should be fitted within 2 weeks [local joke]). Come and pay us a visit, if only to see the floor (pool table) show our 2 local strippers put on.