Mockingbird

Hahahahahhahahahahhaahahahahahahahahahahahaha--- now THAT was funny, mom. Gee, I'm gonna' miss that little turd....... with the santa hat on... NOT! I love the guy, but geez, we've gotta' find him some better avatars. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

Ha, and I can't believe you don't want to define it... but that's OK; forget it. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

Don't strain yourself. I was just asking how you'd define the word. That's OK, you don't have to. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

Theoretically, we're already "joined together" by our faith in Christ. Unfortunately, there is disagreement on certain incidentals and many groups which accentuate some teachings over others which make us look quite a bit different from one another. This isn't what Christ wanted, of course; He said as much in His prayer the night before his crucifixion: As for our differences or quarrels, those are private "family" matters. In the meantime take heart; eventually, we'll be united. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

Many charities, Christian or not, are tax-deductible. Are the non-christian charities stealing from the gov't/"common good" too? Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

Hey BigT, no prob. I was glad to be the recipient of your "olive-branch." It's OK if we don't agree on such a heavy topic; after all, it's jumping that brings us to this forum, and we've all got that in common! Woohoooo! Peace, Mockingbird (Cannie)

I believe you. What is reality? Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

How do you know when your logic leads to truth? yeah, you got some on me once. I can personally attest to this. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

I don't follow this, Steve. Are you saying that theology is not a science and therefore is not subject to the requirements of science? I mean, isn't this a given? Since theology has to do with the reality of the supernatural (God), not the natural? Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

Watch it yourself and you'll see what the problem is with Phil using this video as proof that an intervention of God is not necessary to prevent physical harm to someone who is run over by a truck. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

I've added some implications (below, in bold) from the historical evidences I provided which you missed in reading them. So out all your evidences we have not one single non christian witness to the events of the gospels. Yes, the above do provide non-Christian testimony for the events of the gospels, most notably the existence of the historical Jesus, who claimed to be the Messiah, his death and belief in his resurrection, the existence of his early followers, including the execution of one of them (James) in A.D. 62. There is sufficient non-Christian testimony to the account of Christ and his followers, as shown above. There is more, if you will take the time to look it up. Your major objection to the evidence is that these secular historians were not eye-witnesses. Well, not many historians ARE eye-witnesses of the information they report on. They depend on the oral (especially back then) and written records of those who were. Specifically, you don't find their reports trustworthy because they wrote anywhere from 10 to 100 years after the events they record. Well... Can you provide the names of any secular historians who lived during the first century in that area? Perhaps if you could supply the names of some, we could look at what they wrote about those times. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

I had read that already. I'm not surprised that Darwin caved in to pressure. He obviously still had doubts in both directions. Poor guy. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

Yeah, like the vehicle being rigged for such a trick with a huge amount of weight on one side only and fake FOAM RUBBER TIRES on the side that runs over the body. Man! You really DIDN'T watch that stupid YouTube video, did you? That's not the reason I think you know nothing of Christianity. You have shown me that you know nothing of Christianity. Wanna' take a test and prove me wrong? Something tells me you doubt that Neil Armstrong actually walked on the moon... or that a jet flew into the Pentagon on 9/11. Everything's a conspiracy to you, phil. "Steve's testimony isn't sufficient." Give me a break. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

Some secular sources mentioning Christ's life/death/resurrection: 1) Jewish historian Flavius Josephus' "Jewish Antiquities" (A.D. 93) says James, "the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ," was executed in A.D. 62. 2) A second Josephus passage was embellished by later Christians, experts think, but even with problematic wording deleted it corroborates Jesus' crucifixion under Pontius Pilate and ongoing belief in him as the messiah and a miracle-worker. 3) Pliny the Younger wrote the Emperor Trajan from present-day Turkey (around A.D. 111) assailing the "contagious superstition" of the Christians "reciting an antiphonal hymn to Christ as God." 4) Tacitus' "Roman Annals" (A.D. 117 or earlier) said the Emperor Nero blamed Rome's fire of A.D. 64 on people who "got their name from Christ" who was executed under Pilate, and their "pernicious superstition" [probably a reference to the rumor of his resurrection] continued in Judea and Rome. "Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberious at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their center and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths, Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired. Nero offered his gardens for the spectacle, and was exhibiting a show in the circus, while he mingled with the people in the dress of charioteer or stood aloft on a car. Hence, even for criminals who deserved extreme and exemplary punishment, there arose a feeling of compassion; for it was not, as it seemed, for the public good, but to glut one man's cruelty, that they were being destroyed." 5) Suetonius' "Life of Claudius" (around A.D. 120) says that emperor expelled Rome's Jews because they were rioting "at the instigation of Chrestus" in A.D. 49, apparently misunderstanding Jewish disputes over belief in the Christ. Source: "Jesus and Christian Origins Outside the New Testament" by the late Professor F.F. Bruce, University of Manchester, England. In addition: 6) Tertullian AD 155-200 wrote the APOLOGY to the Roman government and mentioned a letter from Pilate to Caesar: "Tiberius accordingly, in whose days the Christian name made its entry into the world, having himself received intelligence from Palestine of events which had clearly shown the truth of Christ's divinity, brought the matter before the senate, with his own decision in favor of Christ. The senate, because it had not given the approval itself, rejected his proposal. Caesar held to his opinion, threatening wrath against all the accusers of the Christians." (See also: http://www.probe.org/content/view/18/77/) Primary sources for the information on the lives and deaths of the apostles are early church historians Jerome, Eusebius, Irenaeus, Clemens, Polycarp, Hippolytus, Dionysius, and Josephus. Sorry, their specific lives and deaths weren't considered noteworthy by eminent secular historians. Only the people who had good reason to care (early Christians) kept track of such things. (But of course you will discount their testimony because it's "biased," right? It was all a "vast Christian-wing conspiracy.") The New Testament records the martyrdom of two Christians: James, the apostle, who was beheaded by Herod Agrippa, and Stephen who was stoned to death (and whose martyrdom introduces us to Saul, the very zealous hater of Christ's followers... who became the apostle, Paul. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

Apparently you didn't watch it either. Good grief Phil! Man, if you haven't even looked at the ridiculous video you referenced, I'll bet you know next-to-nothing about the Bible or the Christian faith which you claim to find so irrational and objectionable. Why do you spend your time trying to tear down other people's beliefs? You've gone past inquiring about our beliefs and even the reasoning stage --- now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. You can't even accept the personal testimony as true of a man who almost lost his child? You practically called him a liar. And then this stupid video. Talk about disingenuous. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

A lot of denominations/groups agree on MOST things, but have a "pet" teaching which they grew to emphasize above other doctrines. No harm there. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

Maybe. But the problem is that everyone claims that his interpretation is the only one guided by the Holy Spirit. Since there is no Holy Spirit available to confirm or deny it, this quote is completely useless for us with no direct access to Holy Spirit. I've never heard anyone make the claim that his interpretation is the ONLY one guided by the Holy Spirit. Either you have, or you're generalizing. The Holy Spirit leads his children in various ways. We're not all duplicates, like stepford wives. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

Yeah it does. Perhaps not so much in this particular thread, but it you were to check previous threads, you'd see that it happened frequently. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

I haven't any idea what you're talking about. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

Have you gotten the impression that the following is relevant: "He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead." Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

It was about a million or so. Really interesting page HERE from Answers.Google.com. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

Here we go again. Evidence/proof has nothing to do with the DEFINITION of the word, "faith." Now, I'm sure someone's gonna' copy & paste a dictionary entry for the word, but try to hold it, ok? The most basic meaning of the word is confidence. Faith is from the latin, fides, trust. Nothing about evidence or proof in fides. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

There. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

R U seriously asking if this account was NOT because God intervened? God works in a mysterious way His wonders to perform...

Interesting. I took his employment of "The fool hath said in his heart, 'There is no God'" to mean something along the lines of, "Of course I believe, I'm no fool!" At worst, it was only a quote. It was indirect and indefinite; one would have to assume it to be a slam. We've never even heard from the person before; he's got no track record in the forum that would lead someone to come to that assumption. Y'all even cut ME more slack than you did that guy! Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"