airborne82nd

is there another site or does some one have a chart or photo??

it was put back on the risers. i have soft links and i dont see anywhere in the manual where it shows a diagram where one thing goes to this ect... like this d line goes tothe rear risersbut what order?like from outside to inside is there anything out there so i can check? that icarus ownersmanyualdoesnt show me. thanks

Can some one help me. i had someone switch out my crossfire2 switched out risers and the lines look different. before i put it on my rig can someone tell me where i can get a line chart for a crossfire2?? or can anyone post a diagram for me to look at just to make sure everything is correct. i need to pack this thing up tonight for tommorrow am. thank you who ever can help.

Did you swoop that? you didnt have any speed at all. whats your wing loading and is that a cobalt 135?? i dont even touch the rears unless i am hauling ass going as slow as you i would have just toggled it. where you going into a hard head wind??? you held the rears too long as would have been perfect if you had more speed like double that. i am working on holding rears longer myself i plane out and then use them for a short time before i go into toggle prematurly. so i am in the same boat just at the other side

ahhhhh guys this is a question its not a fixation and it doesnt require any dumping on me. i am not getting a crossbraced canopy. that is not why i asked the question. I have seen more people laoding these canopies out less then i thought you had to. now they have way more jumps then me. This is not a fishing expedition it is a fact finding seek understanding not confrentational question. i am not bringing up any points since i dont know about this. i am asking becuase i dont know. again this has nothing to do with me but that i ask. i wasnt aware that people could underload a crossbraced and the people i have seen and spoke with didnt change loading much either. example - i was on a katan a nitro, a cobalt a crossfire at this wing loading and this crossbraced is about the sam wing loading. i dont know if cb canopies are better all the way around if you have the skill and expereince. thanks for the answers. lastly I understand they are gray not green men. not a subject for here but i have seen bizare shit years ago. weird beyond weird. bases underground ones old one and somewhere else ( mcdill ) i understand the chyene mountain is space comand and the old norad right. i hope they make taht a tourist stop when they are out.

I have noticed and have found wingloading on the lighter side. I have seen people on crossfires swooping at like 1.3 loading and 1.4. the icuras says need to be 1.5 and higher. i load the 119 crossfire at 1.8. i have seen a few guys on crossbraced canopies at 1.6-1.8. Now when i spoke to some of these folks and one guy just recently he said his crossbraced is loaded the same as his old crossfire and his velocity way out swoops it, and again at the same wing loading of 1.6 ( not a very big fellow. I guess my understanding is underloading isnt dangerous at least to this degree of 1.6 but i thought the guy wouldnt get the performance out of his velocity at that wing loading. but he insists the his velocity kills his old crossfire laoded both at 1.6 can you reap benifits of a crossbraced canopy at lower wing loadings ??? someone else told me they need to be loaded at 1.8 at a minimum. what is the truth on this ??? this is a bit confusing. thanks

thanks for the latest answers and posts. you guys hit it right on gives me a greater understanding appreciate it. Landing in the peas is a hard thing to do i can get with in 20 ft or in them but i couldnt do 10 consecutive landings in the peas with a crossfire maybe a triathlon. i could never swoop and end up in the pease except by accident. i am not all over the sky when i swoop i go wear and my outs work out for where i mostly jump. i need to get 500% more accurate though and need to dive it more efficent and cleaner. i like the part that cb canopys fly totaly different and i may not like that. thanks for everyones responce. the say i wouldnt and do it comment i didnt get but i said i never would swoop even at 200 jumps not until i was at 400 did i start working at it. thanks again everyone

You missed the memo. I am hanging with the Crossfire. I did listen to you and am doing well. You gave great advice. thank you I am not on a smaller crossfire i progressed to a size that i am working with. No landing off i havent crapped my pants I dont get that rattled and landing off with a crossfire is a peice of cake. its not me its the canopy it just has flare forever you can dead stop the thing about everry time after swooping. Down wind anything it lands great. i have no great skils i make that clear all the time but the crossfire is a very easy canopy to fly. Not interested in getting a Pro Ratting, I am not sure if i could land the crossfire in the pees 5 times in a row let alone 10. I can get close like anyone with my jump numbers can. No i cant hit a gate to save my life yet. I get acused of not listening but the funny thing is everything I have learned to do from camera, to free fly and landing and now swooping, is contributed to the forums. I have been able to learn and put into practice safely with out injury ( no close calls ) the things i have learned hear. What I dont like is how people say things and how insulting they are. I dont doubt their knowledge nor their skills. I do question their motives and atitudes. I have a friend who said to me dont ever post in the forum anything ( he is a swooper ) he told me to stop asking questions here. he said most people will rip you on here. why??? thats why most dont even try to post anything. If you call showing your ass defending yourself then I defend myself. I think its unfair to me to get bashed everytime i ask a question. People also dont like anyone challenging their way of thinking and the group seems to speak for the group in a consensuos. Try to bring up a new idea they shoot it to hell. Skydiving is progressing faster and faster and secodnly most of the swoopers give advice and claim authority on progression, but some of them are hugly hypocritical. Their path doesnt jive with the advice that they give and the demands they impose. Its a free country but here in the swoop forum you cant share nor can you ask questions with out a gang of villigers with pitch forks and shovels running you out of town. and accusing you of not listening. I was told and I thought from a swooper friend that maybe i can get over to a zaos 21 in the bigest size and transfer my skills there and work with in a crossbraced canopy. It sounded logical to me. Get a xaos 21 130-120 by year 2007 ends ( if all goes well ) and go from there. I may stay there and thats it. I thought if i made the jump i would have after 1 year on the crossfire and about 400 jumps. I dont think thats to aggressive. but the crowd here didnt like that. but i did find that the xaos 21 is the only canopy right now out there that i can transfer into crossbraced, when i am ready and squezzed my crossfire of all the speed it can muster. but I owe most of what i know and what i can do to can be contributed to these the forums. If you know 600 jumps ago i didnt want to get off of a big pink student canopy and vowed to never down size and never to swoop. I cant beleive i am doing things i never thought i could do, my porggress is ok, i have been safe and its hasntt been a scary experrince. I ask a question how do you do this or that, i hit the dz pull double fronts harness this and that and wow it works just as everyone said. you guys inspire and help people like me achieve things faster and safer then they could have on thier own. I guess i owe everyone a beer who has ever given me any advice, tips or knowledge. I have been able to put it into good use.

Got it Dave, you were on a crossfire a long time, right Oh shit I must have woke dave up. thanks scott ? Velocity scott???? sorry i am good with faces and asses but not names.

the xaos 27 is out oh well, the only logical progression would be a xaos 21 down the road. i hope by the end of this year. at least floridas you can jump all the time i need to squeeze all the performance i can out of the crossfires till then. i have a lot of squeezing to do. thanks to all who gave info

the velocity is a 7 cell and the jvx a 9 what is the aspect ratio of both.???? so the velocity uses a different way to measure? then icarus?? would the velocity have a faster turn rate then the jvx??? very interesting on the comparison

chuck one more thing to remeber. Some of us dont have the jump numbers but are very inteligent and have a great capacity to learn and understand. jump numbers isnt IQ. and my jump numbers are actually not that low, 600 jumps is experince buy yours are so rediuculously high it skews your opinion. we all look like low timers to you and 26 years in the sport thats forever. you need to put your self into the perspective of a 500 jumper today compared where you were at at 500 jumps. when you had 500 jumps was anyone swooping or sitflying. you old timers remeber the sport has advanced way beyond when you started. you have been there the whole time to see it. they didnt do that in my day is a nice quote but truth be told this sport is speeding up more and more and the skill level per jumps is higher now then ever before. chuck you have 5000 damn jumps who the hell else has that many jumps. not many. thats quite a milestone!!!

iam whats wrong with your leg????? 2nd i love how I ask a question and people say stupid comments like not listening to us and remember that when your counting back from 10. DHarma1975 - who is us? you been in the sport as long as me. and what kind of comment is count to 10 backwards. quite a cheap shot. i wish people would stop acting like that everytime someone asks a question. its stupid. i would love to hear some of the comments i have heard in the past in person. i havent ignored anyones advice thats why i have a crossfire1 119 and a crossfire2 139 at my disposal to jump. I do like the 1000 jump mark for crossbraced canopys. which i will exceed this year. I have flown the fx and to me it was a easy canopy to fly. the katana on the other hand i didnt like at all. i understand from the xaos 21 would be a good entry level crossbraced. they make it up to 135 and of course any size one wants. It is a favorite of video people. loading a xaos 21 in the 1.7 range wouldnt be too radical at all is what i flew the fx at. I understand you dont get the whole bennifit of the crossbraced with a lighter wing loading. ok but if one buys the biggest xaos 21 and downsizes from there i would say thats a safe progression. or at least sensible. my plans are months and months away i think it wise to do research now. it took me a year to get my crossfire of research and demo's. Dharma1976 why dont you get an xaos?? if you want to stick with your crossfire fine we are not all the same. i know you could handle a xaos. CHuck i wouldnt worry about being callous dont think your being ignored i listen to everything you have said. and all is well. I got this info from a very nice thread about the its from a pa guy. good read. [url]http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=569439;search_string=xaos%2021;#569439 Because... I'm on vacation and only took a few moments away from my lovely wife and beautiful 7 month old Haley... (i.e. shut up and jump you little whiney-ass! Get off the internet and experience skydiving in real time. Only kidding...) Ok... let's see if I can give you some of the differences between the 21 and 27 Xaos canopies... let me first cut and paste from the previous posts... Quote Differences in pack volume? Differences in price? Opening characteristics? Turn rate? Riser pressure? (front or rear?) Toggle pressure? Dive Rate? Differences in pack volume? Add about ~15-20% larger for the 27... (this is from experience... I'm at home and don't have specific volume numbers here.) There are more pieces sewn together in the cross braced canopies. Take a seven cell standard canopy, for example a Raven reserve, there are 32 separate pieces of fabric. The Xaos 27 consists of 65 parts being joined (the 21 has 51 pieces). This translates into more fabric (more pack volume) than a comparable sized Xaos 21. Both canopies have virtually the same planform. The 27 uses more pieces to stiffen the airfoil, (more ribs, surfaces and crossbraces). Differences in price? The Xaos 21 has a retail price of $2198.00. The Xaos 27 retail price is $2498.00. These prices are for standard sizes. Any other size is available, (yes we have built a 69.5 square foot canopy on request... notice the warning label on that canopy lists a maximum weight of 180 lbs, 10ozs.) Custom sizing costs you an extra $20. Custom colors are no extra charge. Stainless grommets and links are optional...$40 more. I discourage the stainless. The grommets are heavier and cause the canopy to open quicker. (Yes, Dave Brownell was correct.) Our Wrap-It Links (soft links) are included with all canopies. Opening characteristics? The Xaos canopies are the best opening crossbraced canopies available, period. I know because I've jumped them all. I'm getting older and openings are VERY important to me. This was the reason we started the Xaos project. The day the VX was released was the very same day the Xaos Project began. The VX release happened in our backyard at the Precision plant. We objected, but our newly hired marketing arm won out. (I have 1200+ Xaos21 jumps, 500+ Xaos27 jumps, 600+ FX jumps, 200+ VX jumps and, yes, 400+ Velocity jumps.) My favorite? Look at the numbers above. I jump the Xaos 21 in my primary rig (attached to my Skyflyer!). No other crossbraced canopy opens as comfortably as the Xaos 21. Consistently. Next best is the Xaos27. The greater number of openings, combined with smaller chambers, tend to fill a bit quicker and allow the canopy to hunt a bit more on opening. That said, the Xaos27 is making many camera flyers very happy everyday... Ask them! Turn rate? Geez... no idea, honestly. I personally don't care how fast it turns. Not really a consideration for what these canopies are designed to do. I'm not sure if one turns faster than another. I typically jump a slightly smaller 27, so at slightly higher loading it seems to turn faster. But I'm not sure about the difference at the same loading. Sorry. Last time I thought of "turn rate" was reading an ad for the Para-Commander stating a 360 degree turn in 2.5 seconds or something like that. I think if you want to do quick spirals, a regular construction higher aspect ratio canopy will turn faster. (Try a Nitron or Stiletto if that's your cup of tea.) But that's not really what these canopies are about. Riser pressure? (front or rear?) Now there's an important consideration! These are Pilot's canopies and it is very important to talk about the control inputs and forces. The Xaos21 is designed to be very easy to fly well (even for a canopy novice like myself!). We have shifted the center of loading back a bit on this canopy to specifically lighten the front riser pressure. The result is a canopy that is easier to drive in the riser dive. At my age, eyesight is waning, reaction time is slower, etc. This canopy is very smoothly transitioned from full flight to deep dive. This way, a person can start a dive very high, allowing more time to make adjustments and continue to adjust all the way to the recovery and pull out. This was the critical adjustment made to crossbraced canopies. The Xaos21 is the easiest flying crossbraced canopy. Welcome crossbrace to mainstream skydiving! Rear riser pressures on the 21 are still very light... i.e. very easy canopy to rear riser land. The 27... This canopy is the competitors' canopy (but why does everyday Joe-Skydiver love it so much?!) Time out... gotta run. Time to entertain the Mrs... hope you understand! Stay tuned for part two! Chris Precision Aerodynamics [email protected]

have a xfire 119 also jumped down to a 109. jumped fx it planed out on its own but seemed like it was trimmed steep not great glide. flew the katana that didnt want to plane out i guess its like the velocity i wouldnt know. i understand the xaos 21 is better then the fx in glide flare everything and openings how many vid guys say they fly them. i dont care about resale i have lost money on canopies all ready. i guess the xaos 21 is more for a begginer then the 27 xaos 21

i do appreciate your comments really thanks you are as wise as you are ugly. going by your photo there looking to get into a crossbraced by nov - dec 2007 ways off from now. I have someone watching out for me and suggested to get into the biggest crossbraced and go from there. he said jumping into the 2.0 loading is too much but get into a big crossbraced and go from therre. i have jumped the fx a few times didnt like it. velocity, vx all to much. for me neos is actually a hard diver and doesnt want to plane out on its own so that canopy is out. onyx is well out also for various reasons xaos 21 or 27 has been sugested at the largest size. jumped on crossfire loaded 1.82. have 9 months to a year to do this so no rush. i just wanted some opinions on the 27 i think that or the 21 is my only options down the road for progression. any answers to the canopy characteristics would be appreciated

does the xaos 27 auto recover how does it open? how is the bottom end of the flare? is the front riser high or low? does it dive harder then a crossfire but less then a velocity? is it a twitchy like the vx at wing loading 1.7 how does the flare finish? how easy is it to land straight in. how user freindly is it compared to other cross braced i heard the 21 is sweet but the 27 offers more flare power. thanks

Is there any crossbraced that would be considered a beginers crossbraced. talking 120 range - 108 - loading 1.8. minded that the crossfires open soft and have nice finishing power to the flare. is the xaos 21 and 27 the most user friendly??? i understand the velocity and jvx is out to hard core what about the vx???? I know how crossbraced is super fast i respect that and know, just looking for the easy transitional canopy. xaos 21 - or 27 or vx or perhaps a neos?? i love the recent threads about everyones journy of canopy flght amazing.

can you be a bit more specific with your question. what do you fly now how much do you weigh wing loading ect... is it your canopy or are you renting something different all the time. so assume your on a sabre2 right? have you just downsized? first thing is to build consistancy in landings, good stand ups and accuracy. a 118 jumps are a good number you got pied and your on your way to a c-licsence so your not a newbee but you still dont have that many jumps in total. you have 118 jumps how many on that canopy? once you get a canopy and put a good 50 jumps on it then you will have 168 jumps and thats still not a lot. i say get comfortable and consistant with your canopy play with it up high riser turns ect.. is there anyone at your dz who swoops or any coach for canopy? ask them to watch you for a while see how your landing and see what tweaks or improvemnts you need under canopy. once your there then you can ask him whats the next step for you. it is so important not to move on till you mastered your level and put more jumps under your belt. take it slow. if you jump ahead too fast, your skills wont be ready and when everything goes and comes fast you can make the slightest mistake and get very hurt. so right now find out where your at and what you can do to imporve.

I got 51mph once but average 38-42 on a viso. on a crossfire2 laoded 1.51 my 180 at 400ft. i get in the 40mph if i do more and a bit higher i get higher 40. 65 mph wow what do the pros get on velocitys??? 80mph????

Thank you i have a great digital alti. thanks again brian!! its an honor

I do half breaked approaches at 400 ft into a double front 180. what happens when i do a full breaked approach do i have to start higher and what happens when i do a full flight approach can i do it lower. trying to understand the mechanics here. i have done more breaked and full flights when my set up wanst there but i am trying to adjust for my set up when at times i have to be full flight or half breaked. thanks thanks

wow.

so my slider behind my head should be tight lateraly across????? so when i lossen my chest strap the caopy should expand to the point of the slider right??? no the chest strap isnt loose and the slider isnt tight across. i wondering if my chest strap is keeping my canopy from fully expanding or is it no big deal no performnce issue,noworry? thanks again

spizzzarko should my slider be tight from one end to another? when i stow it behind my back? if not should i get an extension on my chest strap?? i am 6ft 185 big shoulders and poportinate chest. when i open my chest strap all the way and stow the slider behind my head it is still a bit slacked. someone made the comment that the crossfre 1 commin in lokked flatter on top then mine. thenit was said mybe i should get a chest strap extension. is the crossfire 1 going to be flatter on top then my crossfire 2??? thanks

sorry to invoke thoughts of the slinks i have no experience with them and now have them and i have heard two sides to them localy over the years. i feel pretty damn good about them. anything can fail but we dont think about that.