GTAVercetti

You may want them to have a smaller role but they don't. Never have, never will. You have no basis of real data to give as example to your ideal society because it has never existed. Kinda like pure communism. You can look at the EIA site for a breakdown on subsidies. They all get it. Of course, I don't think that includes cheap land, greased-palms, and other nice "government" help. Here is a question: Do you want to get rid of all regulations for cars, energy, and food? No. Next question. But all of those regulations are telling you what you can and can't do. Didn't you just say you don't want that? Or are you drawing the line of what the government can restrict where YOU want it to be because of what you believe? Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

See, that is your problem, jakee. Always turning it around and around again until the idea is dizzy and pukes and ruins my cashmere carpet. Honestly, who the fuck buys a carpet made out of cashmere? This guy. GTAVercetti. That's who. That whoosh had a lovely breeze. That carpet really tied the room together. The only way it could have been better is if I had said cashmere rug. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

See, that is your problem, jakee. Always turning it around and around again until the idea is dizzy and pukes and ruins my cashmere carpet. Honestly, who the fuck buys a carpet made out of cashmere? This guy. GTAVercetti. That's who. That whoosh had a lovely breeze. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

You may want them to have a smaller role but they don't. Never have, never will. You have no basis of real data to give as example to your ideal society because it has never existed. Kinda like pure communism. You can look at the EIA site for a breakdown on subsidies. They all get it. Of course, I don't think that includes cheap land, greased-palms, and other nice "government" help. Here is a question: Do you want to get rid of all regulations for cars, energy, and food? Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

Alas, I have no number. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

Yeah. I am an asshole too. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

I guess. I mean, you turned around and told me I am. And since your favorite move is turning anything right back around to the person saying it, it can't be false, can it? Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

With government aid. Nearly every energy innovation has had subsidy and government aid help. Yeah, like the 1.2 billion dollars of help, GWB invested to develop the new hydrogen economy. Without this help, we would not be powering our houses and cars with clean renewable hydrogen. Thanks to a $250 million loan guarantee (turned grant) from the Obama administration to A123, thousands of Americans have high paying tech jobs making the battery of the future. I see your point. It is very easy to pick the ones you don't like and ignore the hundreds of other examples where government grants and funds helped push research and innovation forward. It is the best part about blinders. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

Look at what? Me throwing out links and making trite statements about how you will never get it? I try very hard to not do that until I repeat myself for the thousandth time. That sentence is exactly what I am talking about. You think criticism about your behavior makes me smug. Because if you do in that manner, that certainly must be how others do it too. I think most people here (in the past when I posted more) would say I am pretty reasonable. And yet somehow there is a massive conspiracy against you and no one believes any of your posts or gives them and real time. Why do you think that is? Do you think it is because you are one of the lone bastions of sanity or could it be that you are just very poor at debating in a manner that is not smug or dismissive? Of course, if anyone else thinks I am wrong and am a complete asshole, they are welcome to tell me. I can take it. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

Jesus. You definitely need to research the history of government support in energy innovation. And when you find out that none of it happened without subsidy, aid, tax relief, or backroom deals, I am sure you will come back and tell me how wrong history is. It doesn't really matter though because your way has never existed and never will. Hardcore conservatives constantly dream of a past that was never actually real. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

and you throw the thin-skinned term around...... You think arguing makes me thin-skinned? No, I am just tired of you being smug all the time. It has been 8 years since I have been back here and I have yet to see you make an actual argument instead of throwing links around and then telling people they are stupid for not getting it. You don't want to debate (because debate is about actually presenting your opinion not just telling people they are dumb for not understanding what is going on in your head or some link you toss out), then that is fine. You can do whatever you want. But don't try to dress it up as anything other than bullshit. You may ask, then, why do I continue? What can I say? I am one of the people who LIKES to feed trolls. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

Yup rush, like everything about everything, you completely figured me (and I am sure SkyDekker) out. If you think that I think I have everything nailed down, you haven't been paying any goddamn attention. In fact, you got it so figured out, why are you here? You should be off patting yourself on the back somewhere. I never said I liked Hillary. In fact, I don't like her for many reasons. And I have said so. But between a bigoted, bombastic, no-plan-having, thin-skinned blowhard and Hillary, I am going to choose Hillary every time. I may have come back throwing crap around recently, but you have been doing it continuously for fucking years. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

So now you are for subsidies? The oil companies will be very happy to hear that you want the government to pay for their pipelines. He has always been for subsidies, I think. Mostly because that is how every step forward in this sector has been made. I don't like speaking for him, but I am pretty sure he was being a devil's advocate. Bill will surely correct me if I am mistaken. Probably in a very polite and reasonable fashion too. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

See, it is shit like this with your high and mighty "I know something and you are too stupid to get it" attitude why no one takes you seriously here. The constant "you don't get it. surprise, surprise" is really old, lazy, and shows that you don't know anything. We all argue with you because it is amusing. That is it. Good for you. Welcome back BTW whoosh..... Pretty sure you have no idea what "whoosh" means. I await your condescending, and "probably trying to be clever" ambiguousness, with baited breath. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

You have a funny idea about what a doomsayer is. You think not wanting a boom/bust cycle and desiring a sustaining energy source is doomsaying? Planning is doomsaying? Well, no wonder we are having this debate. You want a shitty future. My bad. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

See, it is shit like this with your high and mighty "I know something and you are too stupid to get it" attitude why no one takes you seriously here. The constant "you don't get it. surprise, surprise" is really old, lazy, and shows that you don't know anything. We all argue with you because it is amusing. That is it. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

With government aid. Nearly every energy innovation has had subsidy and government aid help. Because no one wants spend billions to make something that someone might want to buy way down the road when it is needed. Most companies, beholden to shareholders who want to see profits now, don't think in long terms like that. If you removed all of these, you would see development speed up only at crunch time. And probably miss the mark when it is needed. You can't just remove all the help and expect the free market to do anything but worry about now. Unfettered capitalism is not forward-thinking. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

Coal is not a crisis moment though, is it? We still use it. A lot. It is not scarce enough to price us out of the game. Consumption has only dropped somewhat because of natural gas. So the transition is not because we NEED to but because we could (driven partially by past high coal prices). What you are talking about is when oil become scarce enough that we NEED to switch fast. By your own words, you have said that we don't need to work on alternative fuels until that point. So coal/natural gas is not really the same thing at all. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

That we have a lot of these alternatives has, in no small part, depended on the fact that subsidies exist. If the market were simply to fight it out, we would not have the progress we do. The goal is not, and should not be, to have alternates that fight with oil at 100 dollars a barrel. We should strive for a lower cost than that. That being said, we are quite far from alternatives being viable on the level that oil is used, from a capacity and availability standpoint. If we wait until it is absolutely critical, there WILL be a gap where we have an energy crisis. We need to start now so by the time the shit hits the fan, we can have the infrastructure in place and the costs down. You spend now to save later. It just makes economic sense. That is, if you think in the long term instead of purely on profits now. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

Holy shit. I can't watch that. I can't believe it even lasted this long in Bonfire. THE MODS ARE ASLEEP. EVERYONE STEAL THE INTERTUBES!! Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

Yep, it says it all about the arrogance of you people assuming that the majority of people share your extremist views. Not that you've ever heard them say anything of the sort (duh, they're silent) but you know that they're out there anyway... Yup. The "silent majority" are pretty much going about their lives, getting shit done, and probably NOT voting for Drumpf. That last bit was my completely out-of-my-ass opinion, but polls have supported it too. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

That was not really an answer, but let's go with it. Is the level of technology that relies on oil analogous to how whale oil was used? What was the impact of a gap between the time whale oil became too expensive and kerosene became cheap? I feel like you are greatly underestimating the impact of energy usage as compared to the time of whale oil. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

Your plan is to wait until oil is not economically viable and THEN transition to other energy sources. But you indicate that we should continue to just use oil right now and not develop alternatives until then because they can't survive yet on their own. You seem to have not accounted for development time. What happens during the time when the new tech is being developed and oil is priced at far too high to be usable? Or is this transition going to happen over night? Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

I'll own "alarmist." All of this chaos is part of the end times prophecy. Don't be too concerned until all the Christians disappear. I mean like in the blink of an eye. This is true. It will be bunches of fun. And it will be extra fun when you are still down here with us heathens. At least your bunker will be all set for the impending race wars or mutated jackrabbit wars or whatever. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

You are right. I do not. I am just going on how you post. You seem to just be incredibly intolerant of anything that does not fit your view to a T. You have never adapted to anything. You seem to be taking a narrow definition of "adapt." Adapt can mean "assimulate to", but can also mean "get used to." Even if you broaden it, there is no indication that it applies. Pretty much exactly what jakee said. Nothing I have seen indicates he "got used to" anything. Everything he posts indicates that he put up with it while grinding his teeth and then ran off to a place where he could be around only people who think like him. As I have said, I am only going by what has been posted. If that is not true to life, then I am truly shocked that someone who portray themselves falsely on the internet. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.