TVPB

Regular backups of business data is a good idea. May I suggest daily backups. You can get software that will do it all for you. Most email software have archival options. Same thing happened to BR years ago. Easy to say in hindsight. It's happened to many of us. BTW - where are my 15 rigs and 26 T-Shirts and 6 p/c and 4 log books and . . . . . In the end, if it's real important, the customers will contact them. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Hi Ken As you said, this is a personal decision. I think your logic is very sound and your outcome (still alive and kicking) confirms this. Well done. r.e. freefalling over the sand, I had planned to do it as a pioneering effort, but some blond girl () got wind of this and beat me to it. Given that it was already done, I decided that being a sheep was not worth the risk at the time. I have freefallen the other side over water a few times. r.e. the attached photo's: - "ssfrapin" shows what can happen with a hesi / deployment. If the hesi delayed deployment by just one partial second later . . . . . . . anyway, you get the picture. note that this position is "forward b bending (flexion)" - this is the agent/event/scenario that leads to most spinal injuries in the surf. The other is "Vertical compression". In a deployment hesi on a low pull, you are likley to get an inverse of VC. i.e. natural response is to lift legs which results in initial impact forces on the bottom / coccyx area. This force is then transferred up the spine. The stronger the force the more likely it is to dissipate to upper levels of the spine. The end result is vertabra / spinal cord damage in the upper spine / neck area. There is also possibliy of severe whip lash and/or broken neck (the weight and momentum of the head will force it to keep going downwards when the rest of the body is stopped by the ground - hence the neck will either compres severely. Or if the head is not perfectly in line with the spine and the impact force, then it will bend. - "dp turn" shows a person who did a 180 turn from exit to deployment on a freefall off the same object - unintentionally. That is just an interesting pic. But it shows how very competent people can stuff up simple things. I have done it. DW has done it. You too can do it!!!!!! Modern jumpers make the statement that they understand and accept the risks. The reality is that most don't. They have an uneducated perception of what they think the risk is. There is a vast gap between perception and reality for many people. The other thing is this. Just because the end result of an act is successful, it does not mean by default that it will always remain so. This is exactly the philospohy behind that infamous game called "Russian Roullette". The only thing that changes is the number of bullets and the number of chambers. Low freefalls over hard earth will contribute to the number of people with quad/para plegia. Possibly death too. If you keep doing the low freefalls, you are using up those empty chambers. The bullet is coming. If not the next jump, then the one after. If not you, it will be your jumping buddy. People also have to remember that they are people, prone to errors, mistakes. Keep pulling the trigger and eventually you may turn up with a hesi, or something else. That is reality. I am not against low freefalls. I am opposed to the fact that many people think they are OK for anyone to do and for them to be done on a regular basis. I have a problem that many people who do them, do so without much understanding. I have a problem that many people do not have a true understanding of the risks involved, the margin for error, the possible outcomes. It is also concerning that they are led by people with similar attitudes, experience, and understanding. The blind leading the blind. In the end, Ken says it best when he said he could not justify the possible end result. That is risk managment. That is longevity. That is having respect for your life and the nature of the beast you are playing with. Think. Plan. Act. Review. Make the right decision. Your choice. Your life. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

I guess he could.. DW did a double stowed. At the time is was the lowest double on the planet. He performed a single a little while before this. He also completed a number of reverse floater static lines on this bridge. There was a lot of the pre-jump prep & psych that most people don't see or seem to appreciate. Apparently he just used to turn up and ad lib the jump whilst in freefall. Reality is that he prepped a hell of a lot. When he reached for his p/c, he had a miss/fumble initially and was lightning fast in rectifying the problem. Most other mortal beings would have missed the 2nd attempt. I jumped p/c in hand with a modified skydiving rig (S18 + crappy Fury). Not recommended!!!! There were three camera angles, some fat ugly guy doing freefall camera with DW, PA doing side on half way down the bridge, and one from the top. We both deployed very close to each other (as we had on many occasions) and I performed a partial rotation on DW during the latter stages of deployment as I was directly above him with a higher descent rate. We did this an quite a few jumps (CRW deployment is fun but can be a . . . . ) I wanted to try to get both angles of deployment and landing so I deployed above and then stalled the canopy backwards during the latter part of deployment and crashed into the water prior to DW whilst filming him.. We got buried under the water a/c fast descent rate. If we had of done this on the other side of the S where the sand is, the result would have been either serious injury or death to both of us. There is no doubt about this. The water was chosen for reducing impact forces. It was well calculated and measured/checked beforehand. The S = 57m. The other S where DW did a double in Oz was 75m (also filmed and appearing on BE). To the guy who made the comment that the bridge is freefalled regularly, he didn't seem to mention that 3 people have been to hospital with serious back injuries, and the fact that there have been a number of extremely close calls. In this day and age, a reasonable component of the "regulars" that freefall that bridge are skydivers who like to pop down the road and try it. It has become common and acceptable practice. But the problem is, someone will mess up big time one day. You have to get everything virtually perfect each time, otherwise you are shot. All it is going to take is borrowed gear with wing loading variation (hence an incorrect brake setting) and an imperfect throw of the p/c for someone to break their backs or die on that jump. As I said, three have been to hospital already. My recollection of the jump is fantastic visuals and heightened emotions. DW was real pleased to walk away from that one. p.s. from the linked photo's in one of the posts above - "444.jpg", a microsecond after that I kicked DW p/c - his canopy surged forward and I was stalling it behind him. During that photo my canopy was later in the deployment than what you can see of DW in the photo. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

I had an L5 / S1 laminectomy about 15 years ago. I took about 9 months off all forms of jumping. Came back and decided that I would focus on BASE Jumping and CRW (both have hard openings )as my two main disciplines in parachuting. Since the op I have done about 750 BASE jumps and heaps of CRW jumps (3 world meets and lots of nationals - not sure how many jumps). My op was not as bad as yours, but there are some similarities. What do I think? - your back will never be as good as it was. But that does not mean you can't have fun. I have had a shit load of fun post op.... - as you get older and give it more hell (load it and apply forces onto it), you will start feeling niggly pains and discomforts. - etc. What can you do about it? - try to minimise the hard openings. You will have to suss this out and it depends on the type of jumping you are doing and your experience. Sail sliders, rolling the nose, slider up, pilot chute size, body positioning during deployment, etc, can all help here. - warm up / stretch prior to activity, your back will thank you. It only takes a few minutes of effort. - if you have any, get rid of any weight at the front, and stregthen your stomach muscles and other structure around your back. - if needs be, wear a back brace (one of those neoprene style ones are OK). They warm all the muscles, constrict / support the surrounding structures, and I think they warm the brain too (i.e. make you think it is helping ) - try to avoid super shitty landing areas. There the ones where you are more likely to do shitty stalled landings. - canopy size (wing loading) - err slightly bigger if you are having trouble making a decision on what size. - don't be in a rush to come back. And pace yourself once you do. Work your way back to normal jumping. My back does get sore. And I expect as I get older, I may again be in a situation where I may need surgery (the other option is giving up - not an option). Just because you are feeling 100%, does not mean your body is 100%. Respect it and what it has been through. So, treat your body as a temple, but don't give up. What have your doctors told you? Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

http://www.uspa.org/publications/manuals.htm - select part 1 of comp manual and see section 4 http://ozcrw.tripod.com/comp_4way_rotations.htm - links to latest rules in FAI and some notes on technique http://www.fai.org/parachuting/committees/cf/ - FAI page Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

I put a disclaimer in when I posted as I saw the potential for incorrect information. I also stated that my comments were based on the comments in the thread and not the actual incident itself. I posted because there has been too many of these situations that have actually occurred in very recent times. The world does not seem to learn. I deleted because the right thing to do was wait until real data / info was supplied. Upon rethinking, I decided that it was too insensitive and inappropriate to post in the thread concerned. I apologise for the timing of my post, the content and it's mistaken context, the fact that it is linked to the persons involved, and for posting in this particular thread. But I don't apologise for the general philosophy behind the comments I made. Whilst they are most probably not relevant or appropriate to the incident concerned, on a broader level, they are appropriate to some segments of the general jumping community. For those involved in the incident, and the friends and families of the deceased, apologies and my sincerest condolences. For all others, Stay Safe. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Jump with your friends. Have Fun. Pull high and stable. Have a god landing and walk away. Drink lots afterwards and stagger away. Live. or Do an intentional cutaway. Freefall sex. Canopy sex!!!!!!!! Drop the bomb. Stay Safe Have Fun Good Luck Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Valry Rozov - well I did have a lot of respect for him before. Lets draw some parallels from the other aviation sport - skydiving. The CRW big way record was organised by Chris Gay (World Record Holder, World Champion, intelligent bloke, etc). He and his team engineered the dive from scratch. Wing loadings, glide ratios, line lengths, selections trials, jumpsuit fabric resistance, pre-selection training camps, etc. The Freefall big way record in Thailand was organised by BJ Worth and team, same as above. BASE records. Hey, lets boogie dudes, if we get enough people showing up, we'll have a crack at the world record. Lets not worry about selecting and inviting the right people. Lets not worry about selecting the right object with the right topography, lets just not worry. She'll be right. My recommendation - call the cops and get them to arrest them as soon as they fly into the country. I have already written in this thread that a 30 way would require absolute perfection. Now and Brento are not the time and place for this attempt. If it does happen, don't fuck up. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

My opinion(s) : - firstly, my preferred technique is thus. I deploy. My main focus on deployment is clear area for the equipment to deploy (back pointing upwards), and to know the relative position of my shoulders to the ground. I prefer to have shoulders symmetrical and perpendiculer to the deployment (parallel with flat ground), but I also like to have fun on lots of jumps so I allow for my shoulder angles and am ready for off headings as per their relative position. As soon as I throw the pilot chute, I focus on body position, understanding how flat / angled my shoulders are, etc. In one continuous motion, I move my hands to where my risers will be as the deploying canopy is just about to reach line stretch and I start swinging through. As I am moving my hands there, I sense what is happening to my body whilst various parts of my harness tensions up against the body. This gives me an early clue as to what my heading will be, etc. IF everything feels fine and the visuals are confirming that feeling, I move towards toggles. If there is ANYTHING questionable in how I feel, then I will grab my risers in anticipation of heading correction. Note that I grab the risers at the toggle area such that I am always going for the same place. The input to heading corrections is dependant no how much force is placed on my harness and where (see example below), and how my gear is set up. NOTE: THIS IS NOT WHAT I TEACH MY STUDENTS - IT IS THE TECHNIQUE FOR ME - I have a few jumps under my expanding belt (lots of high level competition CRW and lots of BASE)!!!!! I also vary this technique depending on what object I am jumping from, the type of jump that I am doing, the gear that I am jumping, how I feel, how current I am, etc. For the above to work well, you need to be experienced, current, very 3D aware of your body position, and in tune with the gear you are jumping, For example, if my left shoulder is dipped, I will usually feel tension on the left shoulder at the start of the swing through (the tension confirms what I think my shoulders are doing - feedback). I will also usually feel slightly higher pressure on my left leg strap at the latter stages of the swing through. Because I am feeling uneven tensions and I initially estimated that my left shoulder was dipped, my mind is already focused in dealing with a left off heading. So I will focus on getting my hands on the rear risers (this assumes minimal lateral separation from an object). My focus will also be stronger on the right riser so that I can put more effort into correcting the heading that way. My peripheral vision becomes heightened such that I am focusing on heading correction but keeping an eye on the object. This allows me to alter my decision r.e. heading correction if the heading is coming around too much. STUDENTS AND INEXPERIENCED PEOPLE: What I see in the photo is not ideal IMHO. Unless you have long arms and are very flexible, you will be reaching further down the risers and will have less leverage and control over your inputs. The good point is to gain more leverage you have to reach further up your risers and this takes more time - so you are saving time. But you have to balance time with response time from your inputs. Someone else in this thread mentioned reaching for the 3 rings. There is stuff all leverage there. Although you can get to your 3 ring quicker, it will take longer and more effort to get the response you want out of your canopy to get the heading correction you are after. With absolute beginners I recommend body stability as number one. Given that you should be jumping off "safer" objects such as bridges initially, heading correction is a little less critical initially, so you get to focus on squaring your shoulders and allowing the canopy to come out stable and on heading. So pitch your pilot chute, square your shoulders in a good stable box man position, and in the latter stages of your swing through, reach for your risers. The trick with absolute beginners is to get them to count (1000, 2000, 3000 - maybe 4 and 5 for those quick counters ). This forces them to keep a stable body position for longer and allows the canopy to deploy properly. If you don't want to jump off bridges initially and object strike is more relevant, then you need to get your heading correction sorted straight away. This means getting onto risers sooner. There was a point made about line twists and reaching for risers. The point on rotation is very pertinent. Another example of this is figure skaters, when they start a spin there limbs are extended. As they bring their limbs closer to their bodies the rotational speed increases immensely. Divers do this on multiple somersaults and twists. So do aerobatic BASE jumpers. The line twist scenario usually comes in the following situation: if a jumper does have unsymmetrical shoulders and they are badly head down, they will load the riser on the side that is shoulder down quite heavily. They will then start to spin around that pivot point and in that direction (i.e. left shoulder down will lead to left twist). Because they are head down, their body has to travel down under the influence of gravity, and the excess speed of the body has to translate / dissipate somewhere. Twisting around is the only palce to go. If the arms are in, then this spinnig will be faster - just like the figure skater and diver. This will make the twists worse. If you reach too low on the risers, you have minimal chance of stopping the twists due to all the force and speed involved. That's why a student should count and remain balance in a harness and jump off objects initially where heading correction is not life critical (just technique and fundamental learning critical). There is much benefit in getting onto your controls as earlier as possible. But you have to balance this benefit with the potential cost of stuffing up your body position which causes the heading problem in the first place. So beginners should focus on body position through the deployment and heading control at the latter stages of deployment. And jump off a safe object initially. Experienced people are just that. They can choose for themselves. When doing CRW, I used to watch other people deploying around me (When doing tight multi way exits and close openings). I got whacked in the head a few too many times by my risers. Now I use peripheral vision. This is relevant to BASE camera people who watch others whilst deploying. Make sure your head and camera are not within riser deployment range, otherwise you get bitch slapped - I recommend the wider risers for bitch slapping, they hurt less as the slappign covers a wider area... You getting too old for B&D Tracy???? Love your work bro...

Shit. where do I start???? 1 - seeing a guru/God do something and then trying to emulate it (next jump) - without emulating the preparation. 2 - progressing too rapidly and in an illogical way. 3 - not doing research before you begin an activity like BASE. 4 - having an expectation that everything you want will be handed to you on a platter when you want it. 5 - having no respect for the sport, its history, its contributors, its lessons, and the real risks associated with it. 6 - making stupid statements like "I understand the risks" when you don't really understand them. 7 - thinking that preprequisites and preparation are a waste of time and bad for your development in the sport. 8 - thinking that someone else's boundary / limits are your own. If you underestimate yourself, your achievement level will be diminished. If you overestimate yourself (more common scenario), you may end up dead. 9 - treating a BASE jump like a skydive. 10 - doing stunt jumps off higher risk objects (i.e. tards off underhung cliffs). 11 - having the belief that because something has worked the last 11 times, it will always work and is safe. From this, not understanding the difference between risk mitigation and luck. 12 - ignoring all the tools, information, and resources available. 13 - allowing a 100 jump wonder to instruct you. 14 - the list goes on . . . . . . 15 - thinking that ethics are a load of shit. 16 - lying to your mentors and instructos about your prior experience. 17 - instructing / teaching people when you have insufficient experience / skill / ability. 18 - etc Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

I note some reservation in your question Yuri. My opinion for what it is worth. It is possible . . . . . . . BUT . . . . . You need to absolutely have every slot filled by the right people. A jump like this would demand that the organisers remove all niceties and cap anyone that they have even the slightest reservation with. If someone says they will do five seconds and they do 6, they are not appropriate for the jump. I think it will be extremely difficult to get 30 of the right people together at the same time to do the jump. Given the topography of the wall and freefallable component thereof, The timings of exits, delays, deployments, etc need to be perfect. I think it far more appropriate to attempt something like that off one of the Norgie walls (i.e. LP7 at Kjerag). The other key factor is local involvement (local meaning Italians or people who very regularly jump the wall). Stay Safe Have Fun Good Luck Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Speaking of attitude: - you are referring to the fact that some people can be extremely competant at one sport and crap at another. This is true in BASE / skydiving. - the other attitude that is worse is that prerequisites and cross skilling are useless. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

With decent instruction, you can learn that in skydiving. In fact, you could safely simulate AND PRACTICE IT, if you really wanted to. Or, you could talk about it when learning BASE jumping. Then, when it really happens, you could suss it out when you first experience it. You know, during that 0.25 seconds you have between opening and impacting the object you jumped off. Of course it is better learning this during BASE jumping and not skydiving!!!!! NOT..... Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Is walking an impediment to running???????? After all, they are two different sports... I need to be blunt here. The "people" who think skydiving is an impediment have no idea what they are talking about. There are isolated cases of extremely poor instruction where bad habits may have to be "unlearned", but overall, skydiving is a VERY crucial and useful stage of the development of a BASE jumper. Anyone who thinks they cannot learn adequate/useful/prerequisite skills in skydiving are narrow minded, ignorant, individuals who you are better off steering clear of!!!!! If you want technical details / risk analysis / arguments both for / against that are based on logical facts, feel free to email me or request as reply to this post. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

The guilt will come after you get your cranium reshaped!!!! Seriously though base_rigger, have you ever tried to organise a group of BASE jumpers? Have you ever tried to organise their jumping? Have you ever tried to organise their jumping whlist at the same time trying to keep them safe? I for one am awaiting your proposed selection and training criteria for event based BASE jumping. The BASE world needs some well thought out guidelines on how events such as Bridge Day should operate and who should be allowed to participate and under what conditions. The knowledge you impart could be transferred to our cousins in skydiving. Something like Quincy (Rantoul / Whatever its called) would benefit form what I hear. Well, about 11 months to go til the next one. I would like to thank you in advance for your contribution and would like to offer assistance should you need it. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

U no wot I meen!!!!!!!!!!!! Metaphoric relativity young man. Relativity.

Before you go looking for the other wall, don't forget to take lots of photo's and laugh your arse off at him!! Sometimes in life priceless opportunities are singular and brief. Grab them. We gave him heaps of shit after that jump. CYA Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Some interesting comments / answers / etc in this thread. Some general observations (IMHO): - you just can't stop progress. All you can do is debate whether or not you spell it as "progress" or " regress". But there is no harm in trying if you feel strongly enough about where the future is heading. - BASE Jumping has just hit 13 y.o. Yep, she's a teenager now. And she acts just like one. There are many parts to this teenager. There is the brain (these are the jumpers who do the right thing AND have fun). There are the arms and legs (well, these ones just get told to do what they should by the brain and the blindly follow). Then there is the . . . . . (these are the idiots people who just do what the hell they want without listening or caring for themselves or anyone else). - self preservation???? Society in general is creating a mindset of we'll look after you and if you stuff up, we'll blame someone else and get some money off them. There are jumpers with this attitude today. - people with a lack of interest or respect for anything other than themselves and the moment they are living in - continued theme from the point above. To me it's like having ethnic parents and totally ignoring their culture / language / history / etc in an attempt to assimilate totally into the society you live in. It is a personal choice that is up to the individual to make, but I think it is very shallow, lazy, empty, disrespectful, etc. How would you feel if you went in and everyone just said "who the hell was that . . . . and who cares"? - BASE is now where skydiving was. And no matter which way you cut it, it is NOT a good thing when people do things with no understanding. It is just like getting married without truly knowing the one you love. People nowadays don't care because they know they have an easy out - divorce. I'm fine with that, but why the hell do people give forever commitments at the ceremony when there is a great chance they will not follow through. There is not much integrity in that. Why is this relevant? Because modern society has very little understanding or time for the things it does. Just like BASE jumpers. Unless you make some effort to understand what you are doing, why, etc, you will not have true respect for it and you will happily throw it away when it is convenient. Or if it bites you on the arse, and you end up dead / divorced, society will say things like: "it was inevitable", we knew the risks, etc. But does it?????? Do we?????? - It does not mean it is right. There is freedom, and then there is ignorance. Expressing your freedom by risking your life for little gain is not smart. Risking it for great gain is admirable. Who gives a rats arse if you played frogger with traffic and ended up dead? We already know that running against the traffic will most probably lead to death. So do something more productive. Fly to the moon. Break a world record. Pioneer something. There are always exceptions. But the reality of today is that people (i.e. jumpers) can do more than ever before . . . . . . . . . . but they understand less. It's kind of like kids today - they can work magic on computers but they do not know how to tell the time on a traditional clock or work out sums in their heads. Is this a bad thing???? That is a matter of opinion. But the fact is, understanding and living the fundamental safety, ethics, and values of BASE jumping is vitally important to keeping any old OR new BASE jumper alive. A triple inward with three twists is great. But if you can't choose sites appropriately, then it does not look so cool!!!!! IMHO - First jump students???? That I can understand. But people with a little more experience should have some degree of knowledge of the thing they are participating in. If they say they love the sport, then they should know something about it. Unless it is not the sport they love, unless it is only themselves that they love, then I can understand why they would not know who Carl / DW / JM / etc are. It is similar to a citizen not knowing who there president / prime minister / mayor is. To me it shows a total lack of awareness and respect for the skills, achievements, stewardship, etc of other people in society. And it is much harder to grow as a person, to progress, to become more that what you currently are if you do not know anything about other people. In the end, I think gowaylow is just frustrated in that he wants people to know more and take better care of themselves when BASE jumping. He, like many others, has seen too many people drop dead in front of him. He also sees the potential of so many people who could contribute to our future, but they will not be able to because they will be stuck in a box 6 feet under somewhere. If you have no respect for others, it is extremely difficult to have respect for yourself. Stay Safe Have Fun Good Luck Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Condolences to all concerned. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Guilty as charged. I was only making a point - and not being very subtle. Sad thing is, I actually know a guy who would do most of the things on that list. Now, he is one free spirit..... p.s. If anyone takes me seriously, I will end up in an institution. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

I am preachy too. And I was pulling lower than you are today when you were still in BASE nappies. So what is your point?????? Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

For those who steadfastly believe in "Nobody tells me what to do": - how about I stand in front of your kids naked and start hacking myself to bits? - how about I piss on your head and shit at the table you are eating at? - how about I trip you over when you are doing a running exit? - how about I do a Fandango (swap your canopy for some laundry)? - how about . . . . . . . . . My point is, there is freedom, and then their is freedom. One involves total anarchistic, masochistic, sadistic, evil, unsocial behaviour . . . . The other involves having respect for other people, society, etc. The second option does not mean you have to listen to your mum and stop jumping, it means you should listen to some good intentioned advice and prolong your life. Get if through your heads, the Italians WANT IS TO JUMP THEIR CLIFF. With the one proviso that we respect the sport, ourselves, the local authorities, and them be being reasonable human beings and following a few VERY SIMPLE safety rules. Its a no brainer. . . . except for those people with no brains!!!!! Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

People's - if that is not freedom. Then I do not know what is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All the locals are asking is to come prepared and have the right tools. To unclecharlie95 and all the Italians, grazie per la vostra ospitalità. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

That's a cute way of saying "BOUNCE". Space has made it clear. The locals are considering closure. Why do we have to make the site stressful and illegal. There are enough of those elsewhere in the world. Lets keep this one relaxed, fun, free, etc. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.