UKFSChick

I hate to tell you this...but judging from the hourly rates on Bodyflight (600 quid - and I'd guess that Airkix probably won't be cheaper) - I don't think you're going to save much unless you can buy in bulk. Which you probably don't want to do, unless you have a couple of grandmothers to sell... The Night Flights and Weekend Coaching is sold in smaller blocks though, it might be worth having a look at that. I'll probably try and get in for some two-on-two 4-way.

Hi Andy - what would you expect to pay for all-day one-on-one coaching from Tiger Woods? Specialist camps like this are run by World Champion professional skydiving coaches. And at GBP13.25 for a minute of airtime, it's still cheaper than jumping - let alone getting a coached jump.

Badger - as I said, similar camps are $1200. Majik don't do camps in a format comparable to the ones offered by Airspeed and these in the UK/ Perris. Andy: If you're referring to coaches...I'm sure they do understand, you don't get to be a World Champion, whether on Airspeed, Majik or any other team, without going without beer and / or a few other luxuries for several years in pusuit of your goal. It just depends what your priorites are. There are cheaper ways to get coaching in the tunnel, but you get what you pay for. If you don't want to pay for top coaching you can always get basic instruction from the tunnel flight instructors, who are very helpful and usually very good. Christy Frikken at SV Perris is a good example of a great tunnel flight instructor (she could give you more than just 'basic' instruction now though - she and her team, Fury, are among the top in the US. But she got to that level in part through doing lots of camps like this.) The Airkix tunnel in the UK will also have flight instructors and other FS coaches you can work with if you feel like incorporating beer back into your lifestyle again. Rusty Lewis would probably be worth speaking to about that, a really nice bloke and great skydiver. If you want to advance more quickly, I think these camps are worth the money, and it actually ends up being cheaper in the long run as you get more value from each second of flight time with a one-on-one coach like this. But then again I am always trying to find ways to justify my addiction... Just glad it doesn't leave track marks...

This might be a stupid question...but did you get it videoed? If so, go through it with one of the tunnel instructors or a freefly coach afterwards. There are many who would oblige for a beer or two. On the humbling aspect of it...I know what you mean.... After 1200 flat jumps I did 10 minutes or so on my back and felt (and looked) like a stranded roach. Getting up off the net to leave the chamber was especially cool. There's nothing like splatting yourself onto the perspex to get the attention of the people outside 'Bug on a windscreen' was a much-quoted phrase that afternoon, and for some time to come. Hmm. Not cool, but definitely entertaining.

I wouldn't be too hard on the Uk tunnels. We all know that it's cheaper to buy big blocks of tunnel time in the US - but I don't think it's because the evil British tunnel owners are planning a price-fixing scam, or that they don't give a damn about efficiency. Land and other costs are higher in the UK than the US. It would be great if all British skydivers could do all their training overseas, but time off work and cost of flights are also an issue. As far as the cost of these camps go...I guess it's like anything. If you want to get better quickly, get coaching. If you don't, then don't. They still work out cheaper than non-coached skydiving in the UK for equal airtime. Since you want to compare with the US, similar camps in the States are currently being advertised at $1200 for an hour of coached time http://www.tunnelcamp.com/content.asp?id={DE889C09-00EC-4115-B7FB-5F6DD7261E73}&cursection=04.03 - which translates to around 670 quid. I've done both the Airspeed camps (at Orlando) and these camps with Gary Beyer and Mark Kirkby (when they were running them in Perris) - anyone will tell you they're both excellent. With the UK camps, you're getting the coaches flown over to you from Arizona, rather than having to fork out 400 quid for your flight out there. So I think GBP795 still makes a pretty good deal for most people, if you want to do the math.

The Airkix (previously SkyVenture UK) prices for FS tunnel camps are up on their website: http://www.airkix.com/skydivers/tc_2_day.asp It looks to me like a good deal on flight time since it includes coaching from 2 former Airspeed members. They are advertising 2-day FS camps, night time coaching and weekend day sessions - plus a couple of nights of two-on-two 4-way with the coaches.

anyone found the link on the bpa/ Hib site explaining what happens next weekend in terms of jump priority?

It's not. Although perhaps you've had it turned up to max in Perris/ Orlando too, we are small and light so we notice when it can't be turned DOWN. Not quite, you don't book in the same way and can end up waiting 10 minutes or more between your flight time while being confined to the outer tunnel chamber. Perhaps you haven't tried team booking. At SV you buy chunks of time and decide how to split it up yourself. That can be true but I don't think it explains the difference in air quality between tunnels. In Perris I wear 6lbs as they turrn it down, the rest of the chicks on my 4way team wear 6lbs or none. In Aerokart we all had 20 to 30lbs on. Unless...maybe you're onto something...Perhaps we were all just really SUPER scared being at Aerokart, what with it being so windy n' loud n'all, which made us turn into flying ironing boards? I'll be sure we all have a good stretch and do some meditation first next time...

[This is a general reply to the whole thread]. It's weird how vitriolic/ defensive people can be when discussing the two tunnels due to open in the UK. Let's bear in mind that: Neither tunnel has a confirmed opening date. Neither tunnel has confirmed flight rates. SVUK says: 'We expect to be open late summer ' Bodyflight says: 'It's getting closer and closer to that special day although no exact date can be published yet.' SVUK says: 'At this point we have yet to fix the pricing of all the fantastic flying options at SkyVenture UK.' Bodyflight says: 'Our price tarrif will be confirmed shortly before opening.' That they are both doing introductory rates is great, but let's also bear in mind that SVUK's is clearly aimed at whuffos: 'Free gear hire and all the training Either a photo or video of your flights or a hat or T-shirt Each flight is one minute in length - as a comparison, a tandem skydive from 12,000 feet is about 40 seconds of freefall' Real skydivers don't need gear, hats or tandem comparisons. I can't find Bodyflight's offer on the website so assume this is something they are only offering at Dzs...so safe to conclude it's a skydiver/ BPA member rate. I'm also guessing that if either tunnel is doing 'special' rates for skydivers (unlikely not to), they don't want it emblazoned on websites that will be visited by full-rate paying whuffos and corporates. Hence SVUK's current rates on their sites, and the reference to minimum flight time ('an absolute minimum of two flights in that hour.') Hence Bodyflight doing 'private' DZ visits and word-of-mouth rate promotion instead of committing to a price in black and white on the net. Having 2 tunnels in the UK will be a great thing for the sport, not only enabling British teams to train more and improve our competitive edge on the world stage; it will also raise the profile of the sport across the board and (hopefully) attract more in the way of corporate sponsorship for teams and individuals. Dz's will get increased business as people get a taste for (and get to see) what skydiving is about. Intro offers to skydivers are made in order to attract flyers now, in the hope of establishing a loyalty that will continue. But what will really make the difference to which tunnel skydivers use will be: Air quality (is there dead air? how bumpy is it? can you control the speed?) Tunnel quality (what are the walls like? how easy to get in and out? what is the antechamber like? can coaches walk or stand in there to coach students?) Staff (well-trained? able to carry out safety procedures in the blink of an eye? understanding of skydivers' needs?) Reliability (does it break down just as you arrive/ while you are flying and take 6 hours to fix?) Coaches (FS/ freefly - how experienced in tunnel coaching?) Availability of time (are all the premier time slots prebooked by whuffos and corporates?) Cost (what discounts do you get as a skydiver? can you bulk buy? discounts for off-peak flying time?) We don't know the details on these factors for both tunnels yet, although SkyVenture UK will be operating the same proven and tested systems and protocols as the existing tunnels in Orlando and Perris. For these reasons the British Women's team (representing the UK at The World Cup in October) will be training exclusively in SkyVenture UK when in Britain. It's a name we can trust on all of the critical points above, and SVUK have a wealth of experience in giving teams and individual skydivers what they need to get the most from training. Training in a sub-standard tunnel can be a waste of time and money. Having flown in both of the US SkyVenture tunnels as well as Aerokart Paris, I have to say all tunnels are not the same and single factors such as size or cost are not the decider. I was disappointed by Aerokart, despite its size - the airflow was too powerful (yes this can be a bad thing) and they didn't turn it down (it was not a realistic freefall speed, so going back to the sky felt like being subterminal for a while - I don't know if they had to keep it high to prevent bumpy air, or if they just didn't care that we all had 30lbs of lead on!), the 'manifesting' system was difficult and inconvenient, and the dead air around the sides was crap, even just for 4way. Anyway my point is, having two tunnels to choose from is a great thing and competition is always good for consumers. But the real test will be a few months after opening when rates are established, skydivers have used them, and any problems come to the surface. Emma

Lol....Mark still going low and blaming the rest of you guys eh? Dave you need to arch, remember? ;-) Superkat - sounds like you all need to sit down and work out your team goals. The advice on here is very nice but at the end of the day, if some people want to do 'serious' 4 way (how I hate that expression, but you know what I mean) and the rest are happy burning cash through the sky and wondering 'hey, what went wrong? but what a blast!' you will all end up frustrated and pissed off. You need coaching, video and tunnel to really improve, as some have said... Without it, it will be a long and weary road. This is something totally fundamental you all have to agree on - if you don't agree, you might be better pursuing different paths. x

Why don't you stand for council then? 'The BPA' is not some dismebodied entity of oppressors who want to destroy British skydiving while lining their own pockets - 'they' are nothing more sinister than a bunch of British skydivers trying to make things work better for all of us. As Craig said, ~10% of BPA members actually attended the AGM. I think fewer than that actually voted? So I guess it must be the other 90% who feel justified in sitting on their arses and bitching about how evil, devious and generally shit 'the BPA' are. Strange logic.

Gary Beyer is an excellent coach and coaches fulltime now (having recently left Airspeed), so he will not have the same training commitments as other coaches - he already works with other European 4way teams and has several hundred tunnel coaching hours. Have sent you a PM with contact info. Good luck with the camp :)

Insurance costs are high because skydivers keep suing each other. It's published in the AGM minutes if you're interested. No insurance, no skydiving - the BPA is not trying to do us over - in fact we are lucky that one underwriter will still insure us (and it's only one) despite the fact that the massive payouts have kept underwriters operating at a loss for some time now. We are not a good bet for an underwriter and the BPA have secured us the best deal 'they' can. However anyone can stand for council if they really feel they are somehow being screwed over. Perhaps you have a better way?

better than permanent bitchin and high blood pressure...

Yeh, nice hey? I saw them live in London, all their tracks are cool, the acoustic ep 'catch the sun' is awesome too :)

As an aside from the war/ guns/ Bush stuff... I just came across a new London band, Belle Park, (supporting Rooster this summer in the UK - at no 5 in charts I believe) turns out one of their latest tracks Weightless is about skydiving: www.bellepark.com/sounds/bellepark_weightless.mp3 Pretty groovy and upbeat, especially liked the line, "I fell weightless as the world stalled." It's free to download and use on any skydiving vids if you just email [email protected] for the copyright. Makes a nice change from Tom Petty's 'Freefallin'... What do you think? We're putting it on our 4way 'Best of' DVD! Hope you like it too :) x

I just came across this new London band, Belle Park, (supporting Rooster this summer in the UK - at no 5 in charts I believe) turns out one of their latest tracks Weightless is about skydiving: www.bellepark.com/sounds/bellepark_weightless.mp3 Pretty groovy and upbeat, especially liked the line, "I fell weightless as the world stalled." It's free to download and use on any skydiving vids if you just email [email protected] for the copyright. Makes a nice change from Tom Petty's 'Freefallin'... What do you think? We're putting it on our 4way 'Best of' DVD! Hope you like it too :) x

Doh...got the wrong year on my original post...(Thanks Skreamer) It's been a long couple of weeks, must detox... Hic What I meant to say was: For those who haven't already been in touch, this is to let people know that Gary Beyer and Mark Kirkby (formerly Airspeed) are doing another of their formation skydiving tunnel camps (number 5) on Feb 15 - 18 2005, IE NEXT YEAR...ahem , at Perris, California. If you would like some more info please drop me a PM. Looking forward to meeting more dz.commers in Feb, as well as seeing EvilIvan, AdamJ etc. on the Dec camp... (Hopefully we can do some evening flying together too). Thanks, Emma VT's comments here

Hi Liz, I am coming to Eloy end of Nov from the UK, do you want me to bring you some Marmite/ Cadbury's choc/ Jaffa cakes? I know it can get tough relying on Walmart! . Have fun on the camp, I hear they are wicked :) Cheers Emma

For those who haven't already been in touch, this is to let people know that Gary Beyer and Mark Kirkby (formerly Airspeed) are doing another of their formation skydiving tunnel camps (number 5) on Feb 15 - 18, at Perris, California. If you would like some more info please drop me a PM. Looking forward to meeting more dz.commers in Feb, as well as seeing EvilIvan, AdamJ etc. on the Dec camp... (Hopefully we can do some evening flying together too) Thanks, Emma VT's comments here

RW16 - I think Ron has said it best. Ask other people who have done camps, find out which individual coaches they recommend. There are many around - and a person's ability as a skydiver does not always translate to their ability as a coach. Equally, different people favour different coaching styles and approaches. Some coaches are more technical, some are more 'watch and copy', some are more positive, some are more 'say it how it is', some are..well, they're just better at seeing what's inside your head preventing you from performing a certain move correctly. I'd advise asking around, and don't go on the first opinion you hear, as everyone learns differently. Longevity is a good sign, as are good reports from other skydivers. Have fun :)

...in time, in a training dive just undertaken by Airspeed at Perris, so I hear. Not too shabby. And a non-repeater! Can't even imagine what it would be like on the inside of that. Tomorrow's meet should be worth watching...

Quite. I think at that level it's more about the average than the medal so I'm sure they wouldn't have objected to being listed as a Guest. (Airspeed and Blade seemed to be ok with it, after all.) How was the omission unearthed?

I think it's pretty bad form that they would not let you compete as a guest team. Filing a bunch of 000s seems like laboring the point somewhat. The people who matter know what you guys scored, and a 15+ average is a 15+ average, no matter how you look at it. Congrats to all of you on Exceed, you did a great job, despite the technicalities - please pass that on to Christy from me. I look forward to seeing what you do next year. Emma

Be nice to have you on board again Adam! Will see you in December, if not at Perris then at the Eloy boogie :)