baronn

This is great stuff. I suspected something along these lines may have been the problem, I did not know for sure. Thanks for sharing. Since the Max represents over 53% of Boeing's cash flow at this time, this is going to have serious repercussions on the company. And the stock

A lot of folks don't use their real names here. Apparently knowing who said the message is much more important than the message itself. The fact that you not only voted for this but, also voted in favor of donating members funds to the ISMHOF has diminished my faith in you. We do know each other. You wouldn't recognize my name if you heard it, Yer an Amazing guy Mike and have an amazing family doing incredible stuff. However, failing to give what was discussed in these meetings with board members who also are USPA members and passing that off as the general membership is a stretch. At best. Real quick to call me out when you think I'm wrong, but slow when it happens to you. I'm not the only that thinks that was shifty. When the board feels that they don't have to be accountable to the general membership, that's a problem. I'm glad you referenced the US government. This board is acting more like that every day. A high standard indeed. I agree. This has been pretty much beat to death. If I decide to pursue this further and have something to share, I'll post it.

It will be safe at Eloy. Plenty of folks to keep an eye on it there

23 Huh? I guess that leaves about 34,977 left. Let's see how this plays out.

Again, you may want to read ALL of my posts before coming to an incorrect conclusion. I have not only mentioned alternative methods to get this info but, I also did my own research to get as much insight into this "Problem" as I cude think of. If All incidents are spose to be reported and currently, are not, then how is creating a BSR gonna suddenly change that? That's the equivalent of passing gun laws and expecting criminals to suddenly start obeying them. Hasn't worked too well so far. The idea of firing an AAD is in itself, extremely self regulating. As a DZO, that behavior will get handled with me and a BSR has 0 affect on it. I can almost guarantee, every other DZO will feel the same way. Are there DZ's where this is happening regularly with the same folks? Certainly possible but, I can't understand why. Maybe they are so desperate for help, passive or simply don't care. A BSR won't affect them. They simply won't report. Point is, passing this will have, IMO, 0 effect. Time will tell. I see a track record of questionable behavior by the board. Apparently they couldn't see any other way to attain this "info" without coming down with a heavy hand. Threat of discipline. Never asked any members for input, never attempted to find this out thru the mfg's, nothing. Their job is to regulate, not dictate. They are elected to represent it's members, not burden the rule following members with unnecessary regulation because of, what may be perceived, as a few bad apples that may or may not even exist. This was over-reaching IMO and yes, based on past behavior of the board, it does make me wonder why. If you want to call that whiny, so be it.

Yep. It has happened. The Bitch fest continues. I never intended to hijack this thread. I read this and posted an opinion. I started another to see if we cude get some real data on the number of fires. I took the time to contact the MFG's to attain some data from them. Again, real numbers but, inconclusive. I've posted all of this for anyone that cared to read (and comprehend) it. Accusing my falsely and refusing to acknowledge that is really incredible. I had hoped to point out some things the board is doing that I (and yes, a few other's) don't agree with and help to correct them. I did not contact every board member. I hoped they mite read these. Some do and have responded (privately), the other's may have seen this but, have chosen not to respond. I may or may not take the advice to get more data on this and contact the Board and see about getting this reversed. I DO have another idea to obtain that. I'll have to decide if it's worth any more effort. To those that have simply gotten way upset over what I attempted to achieve here, I do apologize. It was never my intent

Clearly this has turned into just a bitch fest from a little bitchy person. Anyone that has time to put nearly 77K posts up can't have much time for anything else. Way to go.

Helps to open yer eyes. And mind.....

To both of these replies, I am NOT on the board. This decision was done with ZERO input from ANY members. I work hard and don't have the time to travel the country chasing meetings to voice it before these decisions are done. Yes, I am complaining about this and Yes I am sitting on my butt when I type this. I have offered options to obtain this and even went as far as contacting the MFG's to get some real numbers from them. Nobody on the board even went that far. I have asked an impromptu poll here about how many have witnessed this. Again, the board never even did that. It's the Boards responsibility to It's members to represent them. Not burden them with un needed rules and regulations. This was a cheap, lazy way to handle this and I am pointing it out. Don't agree? You don't have to. I have gotten quite a few PM's that agree with me. You are welcome to your own opinion, You are not welcome to creating your own facts. May want to realize the difference

Thanks. Somebody has to stand up....

That does not, nor will it ever, keep info confidential. They may not put the names/places in the published report of Parachutist but, it certainly doesn't take a genius to put together where it happened. Especially when it is a law firm looking to take action. They already know where that is. As far as attaining this data, I have mentioned too many times that a BSR is NOT required to attain it. If anything, I believe this is going to encourage NOT reporting it. I can think of several different methods that may have been more effective but, since they were never implemented, we will never know. Let's give this a shot and see how their method works. I think this is a non issue and it simply won't effect much. I just think the decisions coming from the board are wrong and continuing to defend bad calls doesn't make it any better. As far as the number of these happening with instructors, It doesn't require a BSR to fix that either That will be handled by the DZ or S&TA. Fire an AAD at my place and I can guarantee that will get handled before any form is ever filled out. I'd be willing most DZO's will do the same. If the USPA feels they need to get involved because these folks are simply going to ignore that, are demonstrating once again how truly out of touch they continue to be.

The info is stripped AFTER it's published. Please tell me how that is kept "Confidential"? They have avoided answering why a BSR is required for this or why this is all of a sudden such a serious problem at this time. Pay attention.

Anybody else having problems posting an ad in the new format? I'm sure I'm missing something but, have attempted twice without it happening.

I watched it the 1st time it was posted here and went back and watched it again. The only mention of the BSR for the AAD fire was rolled into the conversation about getting the incident reports. He said no disciplinary action if it is reported but didn't mention anything about what happens if you don't and then get reported by someone else. He also said he wanted to get an exemption from being subpoenaed by anyone to get that info. As of rite now, that doesn't exist and if a lawyer wanted it, they CAN subpoena for it. Firing an AAD goes without saying. Show me anyone that WANTS to do that. Everyone of these folks talking about the need FOR knowing this and we still don't have anything resembling a reason for why a BSR is needed TO get it. Or why all of a sudden now. We as members agree to abide the BSR's. As elected members of the board they also have an obligation to the members to justify their actions and why. If they can't/won't or simply refuse to follow their obligations, we not only have the rite but, the obligation to question why and shude hold them accountable.

Why not anytime in the last 25 yrs, what changed?

I stand corrected. If it never gets reported, then they can't take action. Soooo, in a way, this encourages someone to not report it. If another person sees/hears of it happening, they can drop a dime on them. Since this is being touted as a "data acquisition action", why is a BSR needed? What has suddenly changed that needs this action? Hiding behind the "We need to know when these happen" doesn't justify a BSR. I do agree it wude be good to know if there is all of a sudden a lot of these going on. The polls here and the numbers I'm getting from the mfg's aren't supporting that trend. So it keeps coming back to my original question, why now?

Again, pure speculation. Since it was never attempted, we will never know. As of rite now, the BSR, though mandatory, has no penalty, so technically, if you don't report this, it won't matter. So what's different between this and the voluntary accident report?

Clearly you haven't. Or you simply choose not to comprehend what I post. You continue to go back to the REASON for this info. As I have said here many times, I don't oppose finding that out. I strongly disagree with the method they have chosen to attempt to get it. Apparently the Board doesn't have enuff faith in their members or experience at a DZ to simply ask for this. In this small forum, many have willingly shared their experience when they witness this happen. The incentive to NOT let it happen is strong, I fail to see why a BSR is needed to get this.

It's optional ONLY on your personal rig. It's left to individual DZ's to require it or not. Required on tandem and student gear. Again, another weak argument. Have you read any of my previous posts? If so, did you read all of it? I continue to find these kind of responses amazing...….

I'm putting a new cushion floor in my 192. Considering a smooth or textured vinyl cover for it. Any Thoughts/Experience?

1st point They didn't try. Your response is pure speculation 2nd point. Agreed. The circumstances wude dictate what that needs to be. An S&TA or DZO issue What argument do you think I'm trying to "Win"? Clearly Sarcasm is beyond your comprehension...

Man, this thing sure ran away fast. I never opposed Finding out if this is a problem. I have always said I didn't like this approach. The board cude have simply asked if anyone witnesses a fire, send a text, phone call or Email to Ron Bell. No need to name any place/one to gather data. But Nooooo. Now it's actually being suggested that every instructor at a DZ that has this happen, needs re-training. Why stop there? Why not re-train every AFF, Tandem and videographer that may ever be on a student jump across the entire planet? And while we're at it, require every instructor to put a non refundable deposit with the USPA because there's a chance that a life saving device may actually be used. They can continue to wisely invest that into projects like the Museum. And then beg for funding to send a team to a World event......

Sooo, we have an as yet to be proven problem and the answer is to require more rules and regulation to fix it? Requiring the entire staff to have to go thru retraining because 1 individual had a fire? I think if the Board continues to act like this, and some members continue to support, these type of un-needed actions, fewer and fewer folks are gonna want to participate as instructors. And before I start getting, "What are you afraid of?" routine, I don't have an AAD in my personal rig, Don't hum it down as I have witnessed at many member DZ's by current board members and I/E's, have no intention of suddenly changing that. It is extremely doubtful this will ever affect me personally. I hate bullies and I hate bully tactics. This stinks of that...

May want to read everything I post. I am against a required BSR to collect this. DZO's and S&TA's cude provide this info. They don't need a BSR to require it. Airtec introduced their AAD's in the early 90"s. Most everyone I knew. had 1 near the end of the convention days.. You can continue to nitpick my points as much as you see fit. The point here is the Board continues to focus on non issues and ignore more important things. I'm not alone in feeling this way. If yer OK with this, good for you. I disagree and am not afraid to say it

So suddenly any time the board needs to "collect" data, they pass a BSR? Of all the options I see to collect this, passing a BSR to do it wude have been past last on my list. Granted, I'm not on the board and maybe this is happening a Lot more than I (or most everyone else here) are seeing but, going heavy handed like this, seems inappropriate at best. Those in favor of this, seem to continually use the argument of how badly this info is needed to back their argument of being in favor of this. I don't think anybody is against finding that out, including me. I don't agree this is needed to get it. I remember the days of the Convention and can't recall seeing any more than a few (<5) activations. Pretty sure there were more jumps done in those 10 days than just about anywhere else on the planet. Let me make a prediction: I don't think this is going to be reported very often. A; it just doesn't happen often. B: it's embarrassing and since there is (at this time) no repercussions for NOT doing it, there is little reason to expose the risk of trusting the USPA with that info.