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I am piggy backing your post to say that my impression of the Neos also involved a somewhat shorter recovery arc than the Velo. Not super short but noticable I thought. I look forward to the chance to try a Sensei. I am glad you are loving yours. "... this ain't a Nerf world."

Judging wind direction up high is more useful for determining the pattern entry point in my opinion. If you can't tell the direction by looking past your feet then it is likely not strong enough to matter much so I agree with you. Water being smoother on the upwind shore is true but there are other factors here to determine if you will be able to tell a noticable difference. I just always prepare for downwind landings when landing off and if you get some help from the wind it is just a bonus. Once you drop below the level of any trees or terrain surrounding your out, the wind often decreases enough to give you a surge anyway. Feet and knees together, knees slightly bent and be ready to PLF. Oh, and if someone throws a planet at you don't think you can fend it off by sticking out a hand, foot , or elbow. If you fear downwind or crosswind landings seek qualified instruction so you can improve your safety in the sport. "... this ain't a Nerf world."

Yeah somone told me that about a decade ago when I started AFF. (Actually I was told they face the wind to keep the flies out of them) What I have observed is different. Here in South Carolina and Georgia they seem to face whatever direction they were most recently walking. Maybe above 20mph winds they are more conforming but I have less reason to pay attention to them then. "... this ain't a Nerf world."

Isn't Pittsburgh part of southern canada? It's cold there isn't it? If you find yourself in Ga or the Carolina's let me know. "... this ain't a Nerf world."

Yeah, the 6 jumps I put on a Neos had great openings. Not too long but very nice. It just sort of vibrated and then blossomed on heading. I didn't jump it enough for a definitive opinion but I got the feeling it didn't have quite as much "oomph" at the end of the flare as the Velo. Could have been me that was lacking though so ymmv. "... this ain't a Nerf world."

While I will graciously accept tips, I would prefer you put the money toward making more frequent jumps in those ever important early days. Sounds cliche but Currency Counts! Nice of you to think of us though.

When I asked the same question over a year ago I got several replies from other camera flyers I know and trust that seemed to say the Xaos 21 is head and shoulders above the rest. The consensous was the Velo is pretty nice too and the Xaos 27 is a bit more unpredictable. Of these, the only one I have jumped is several different Velos including the two I now own. The openings are soft enough to make me happy but I wouldn't necessarily say that on heading is as consistent. I am not actually sure what you mean by openings. The only folks I know that would like quiet openings are bandit BASE jumpers. "... this ain't a Nerf world."

Most of the points I would make have been covered. I would encourage one of my students to get rid of this based on 2 of the 3 S's. Assuming the photo is of you trying to fly straight, I teach that to be steerable requires 3 things. Turn right, Turn left, and fly straight. I add that if you have to bring a toggle lower than your ear to fly straight I would probably get rid of it and land my reserve. Experienced jumpers can evaluate this further but newer jumpers should take a more cautious approach in my opinion. I also would question the ability to flare and lacking that, I definitely recommend landing the reserve. Our student canopies are large enough that I have seen students land without a flare with minor bumps and bruises. Looking at the distortion in that photo, I am not sure that canopy is going to land with it's full potential and could in fact be moving faster both vertical and horizontal than normal. You can't really tell until you are at the ground and are committed. Everyone can make up their own minds but reserve repacks aren't expensive enough to jeapordize your safety. I am glad it worked out for you and this really is why student gear is so big. "... this ain't a Nerf world."

I was always told to follow hot foods with ice cream. That way as you suffer the burn the following day you have relief to look forward to. "Come on ice cream!!" "... this ain't a Nerf world."

Someone mentioned trying to land with one toggle and one riser. I have no reason to think they haven't done this with good results. I will say that it would require quite a bit of coordination to do and I wouldn't recommend it for most people. Staying even with one hand (the riser side) having a control stroke of a foot or likely less and the other hand (toggle side) having in the neighborhood of 3 feet leaves a lot of room for error in my opinion. That actually caused the first skydiving injury I ever witnessed as a jumper loaded about 1:1 hooked herself into the ground mid-flare. (also the first time I saw a compound tib-fib) I would definitely agree that there is value in trying this up high and make your own decision reguarding which you feel the most confident with. I teach students to land with two toggles or two risers but never one of each. I think anyone who couldn't manage to land with risers alone would not be likely to better with vastly different response from one side to the other. Again, I would like to say this is my opinion based on observations and personal experience and not meant to say there aren't other ways to view this. Cheers, Robin "... this ain't a Nerf world."

I am just responding to the last post and not aresye directly. Speaking of greater field of view I wonder how much is sacrificed in goggles with enough structure to house a fan and battery(s). I too vote for removing them under canopy if they are fogging. Mine don't normally fog up if I relax my breathing a little. "... this ain't a Nerf world."

Your observation of the dabate is exactly as I understand it as well. The only thing I would like people to consider is how much time it may take to decide whether or not to cutaway. It is sometimes faster to follow the procedure you have practiced the most than to decide and act on a deviation. Both sides are valid depending on specifics of the situation. Just make it an informed decision and good luck. "... this ain't a Nerf world."

So.... are you saying my Velos aversion to flying through gates may not be PD's fault? I guess I may need to practice more. To the OP, I fly Velos because when I was in the market for xbraced they opened nice and soft (very important for my camera work) and were more available than the others (on the used market). That being said, I really love them. "... this ain't a Nerf world."

The sad truth is someone will always second guess your decisions and there doesn't seem to be a way around that. First point, you made a decision and walked away so that leans toward it being a good decision. (At least in this case) I would say the same if you landed on rears and walked away. One question that comes to mind is how rattled were you by the hard opening? You may have been aware that you were at 3300' but if you weren't able to accurately assess the condition of your main by 2500' you definitely made the right choice. At your experience level, you should have some time practicing a flare with toggles unstowed on rear risers. If that is true you could make an informed decision on whether to land on rears or not. A stall on risers is much more abrupt than on toggles so I would not want my first attempt to be at the ground. Were you one of my former students I would feel good about your decision and would ask you these questions only to prompt you to think ahead toward any future crisis that may occur. In this sport time is often a luxury so considering situations and responses ahead of time is our best defense. You can never know ahead of time exactly what situation you will be faced with. It is also more valuable to seek the opinions of the instructors and knowledgable jumpers you trust the most. They may give you alternatives to consider but ask them specifically what they think you did wrong and why they may think that. At the end of the day remember, it is your butt on the line. Make your best decision and proceed with confidence. The life you save may be your own. Sounds like a fine reaction to me. "... this ain't a Nerf world."

This was my experience in 99 and the beginning of the new millennium as well. I saw an experienced jumper at our dz in '99 pull low after a 4-way. He was really jazzed on landing and told me he and his team mate did this sometimes but this was unusually intense. Then his team mate walked over with huge eyes and said "Did you see that?! I had a hard pull and thought I wasn't going to get it!" My friend got pale after he realized he was having a low pull contest with someone experiencing a malfunction. I have always tried to remember what I learned that day about perception and reality. "... this ain't a Nerf world."

Of course he might owe beer for his first reserve ride... I don't know if the military beer rules are as comprehensive with "firsts" as the civilian rules are though. To the OP, you seem to have done a good job opening something in either case. congrats

There are almost too many sig lines in this post to choose from but this one caught my eye. I take it as a compliment. You do have a few good points scattered through and the rest is quite entertaining. Thanks for the levity. "... this ain't a Nerf world."

Quote My only advice will be don't hurt me or my friends, and get some health insurance. Quote Nice one Bill. The funny thing is I have always thought the same thing when I get talked into an old fashioned 10 way speed star. You are right about keeping it out of the path of others but let's not forget the danger that can come from a toggle whipping 90 to save 50 feet of walking. I love skydiving as well as landing fast. I am just now focusing on competitive swooping. My four goals for the season are: 1) Don't get hurt 2) Don't scare the organizers 3) End the season better than I am (should be easy because I suck) 4) By the end I would like to be able to score in each event. I don't think it needs to be banned as much as people who are not going to be in the top handful anyone need to realize it is not the end of the world to miss the gates. It sucks to see people get hurt. "... this ain't a Nerf world."

I can't believe you said that! You've known me longer than that Andy And if you read this Russel, it was typed with nothing but good vibes brother. "... this ain't a Nerf world."

Quote... split the right side lines to the right of the center grommet and the left side lines to the left of the center grommet, pull the rubber band through the center grommet & then make a stow as usual. reply] If I am picturing this correctly you have half of the lines on each side of the rubber bands and then join them to stow in one direction through the same rubber band? I don't see a problem with it. We use rubber bands because they are inexpensive and usually break if needed. I just don't see a benefit either. It also seems like there would be added risk of the slider moving around while you are splitting the lines. You could control this taking your time but I am often packing in a hurry and don't need the extra step. Just my opinion as it obviously works so far. "... this ain't a Nerf world."

When you did your first tandem, did you watch them pack it before you jumped with your TI? If you did watch, did you have a clue what they were doing? I doubt it. After you learn to pack, you will find out that it is not a big mystery how it all works. Until you actually learn to pack, you can't tell if a parachute is being packed properly so you are trusting the packer 100%. What about your reserve? Slow down and take it one step at a time. Very well put. I would add that with skydiving you are basically folding a car cover, stuffing it into a napsack, and throwing it into a very strong hurricane. There are a few things you can do to improve or interfere with a nice opening but a lot comes down to design. You have less control than we like to believe at times. YMMV but this is my .02. Go learn the important things like altitude awareness, pull priorities, and dealing with malfunctions if they happen to occur. Oh, and have fun with it. "... this ain't a Nerf world."

You are in Monroe after all. Just ask Russel! Congrats! "... this ain't a Nerf world."

I apologize for how long this post got. I've never experienced Icarus' customer service so I can't comment. PD however, I have. I bought a used Velo 96 last year. Once open and flying it was everything I wanted. I say that because I jumped it about 200 times between July and April and chopped it 4 times. On the last reserve landing I had a great front riser 270 and crosswind on my PD113R. I realized I was spending too much time under my reserve and found a used Velo 90. I sent the 96 back to PD to see if they could fix it. About 3 weeks later I got a call explaining that they had inspected the canopy and found the fabric to be old but solid and the line trim (Vectran) to be a little out but not terrible. They sent it to a test jumper in Deland and he reported back almost exactly the behavior I had written in the work order. I was asked a few questions about the history of the canopy (which I couldn't answer) and was thanked for giving them a chance to check it out and possibly fix it and not just selling it to an unsuspecting buyer. They also asked if I needed a loaner while they worked on it, which I didn't but you have to admit it was a nice gesture. End result was they relined the canopy and even added a feature from the comp Velo to see what effect it would have. It is now a solid and reliable canopy now living in my backup rig. If you want to know what I think is the most remarkable part of the whole experience it is this. The Velo in question was manufactured in March of 1999 and PD had no obligation whatsoever in my opinion regarding it. I have always heard how great their reserves are and how thorough their R&D program is but I never dreamed there customer support would be this impressive. I am not, nor will I likely ever be a sponsored PD pilot. There is a strong chance I may never even purchase a new PD product but you can bet when my friends or AFF students ask about PD I only have positive things to say about them. Thanks PD. "... this ain't a Nerf world."

Fixed it for you "... this ain't a Nerf world."

There are ads on here? I haven't really noticed "... this ain't a Nerf world."