Hajo

I know one guy over here.
he must be now in the middle of the sixties and he is still jumping.
one night, his canopy got caught in the wires for a trolley-car during landing.
he escaped observed but unrecognized by people on the ground.
the newspapers headlined next day:
"young man escaped after parachute-stunt from a building"
so you see, age is relative ;-)

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Did you try the "Subtitles"-option in the main menu?
Micke
Team Bautasten

hi micke,
it works very well. thanks again for my copy.
you should work on a subtitle option for live activities like our weekend here in germany.
I guess, swedish will never be a language I will learn... skol!

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At the first sight I also wanted to post this picture, but then I recognized the black BOC. Hajo, you`re getting old ... think about glasses.

Kat

Kat, you are right.
but after a weekend with the three swedish guys on that tour here, I am a little dazzled.
six jumps at one weekend is a lot for an oldie like me... ;-)
I blame it on the loss of sleep...

If it was this guy, I know him.
but as far as I know, he sold that rig.
so it depends on the time, the picture was taken..

1st: learn to crawl before you try to run....
2nd: pointing a gun to your head and pull the trigger is more efficient (personal view on the jump-history)

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These pics are insane, soo many cranes and skyscrapers at once...

I was happy to jump with a guy from dubai as he has been here in europe for some short jump-vacation.
the stories he told me about base in dubai were not really nice.
he once got busted there and was told, that he will loose his working permission if caught again.
this would mean he has to leave the country.
so everyone who intends to jump down there should know, this is a high risk activity.
not only the jump itself, but the consequences for the locals and for the jumper (if he gets busted) are no fun.

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I am not about numbers and I am not competitive.

sounds good.


I have respect for everyone, who pushed this way of life or is just having fun within this sport.
but I do not connect persons to numbers.

it´s the engine, not the licence plate.

the safest is the one you do not.

ok, serious.
what is the safest to be meant?
deployment method?
does personal skill count?
weather?
gear set-up or choice of canopy?

my thoughts:
independent from gear preparation/configuration, mental or physical circumstances of the jumper or weather...
let´s pretend, all of the above named things are perfect ... (ok, let´s forget about the "mental" thing...)
it would be:
> an official site at daytime and sealevel
> a bridge, high enough, suitable for the deployment method
> easy access to exitpoint (no freeclimbing or squeezing through structure,...)
> a huge landing area without obstacles
> direct bag, pc-assist or staticline
> beer only after the jump

this is what I would think about, how to make a base-jump the safest way I know.

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There are also two in the UK and another 2 in Europe.

in germany, I know of 4 dz, using porters:
neustadt/glewe
ampfing
schweighofen
leutkirch

I liked the porter because of the STOL possibilities and the very slow exit speeds.
space inside was never a question when sitting in the right way.
the door is huge...
and the step is great.

viel spass dort "fluffy"..

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Well, every plane that I've ever jumped out of, I've put a sticker on the door for good luck. And so in that habit, ( whether its good/bad ), when I started Base jumping, I put a sticker on the exit point of everything that I jumped off of. ...............

if someone needs a "sign for good luck", he should keep this to himself.
place a sticker on your helmet or your shoes and you have it with you on every exit....

to the argument with base-vids:
they are inside of the cams and on the tapes, not at the exit or on the way to them.

me personally, I do not like stickers or tags, neither in aircrafts nor at exit points.
if you have the strenght in your mind, you will not need visible signs (for others) on the outside.

of course is a sticker different to a large tag, but the main reason behind both leads to the same effect.
someone not involved or involved in a way we all are not interested in, is able to see your personal "signs".

a better way to preach for good luck would be, take some garbage left by others with you on the way down.
leave the site in a better way than you´ve found it.
and "better" here means: cleaner.

just my point of view.

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I assume this only applies for newbies interested in getting involved in the legal and regulated jumping, correct? For underground jumping it only remains a highly recommended approach, not a mandatory step?

first to that:
what someone does in the underground is his own responsibility.
if you intend to steal a car, you do not have to pass a drivers-license test in front. ;-)
we do not offer two fjcs, one for official and one for underground jumping.

the stealth-jump itself does not differ not so much from daylight jumping.
stealth action needs the same training than official jumping.
so why not give all the knowledge you have to interessted guys?
what they are doing with that after leaving the course - no one knows in detail and is not the point.
everyone round the world can buy base gear and walk to an object of his choice. if he fails with his jump, we all have to suffer from that in a certain way.
offer those guys basic instruction and probably they recognize: this is different to the footage seen in freaky videos and not what they expected.
we do have many calls, saying "hey, I saw that freaky base action and want to do this also. I now have 79 jumps and have done everything from rw to freefly and I think I want to do this now".
by the time, they receive the overlook how a first jump course is structured and what to do in front, a lot are able to have a first look behind the videos and they think about base in a different way.

zennie:
to the manual: it holds hundreds of pages and it is like translating the SIM of the USPA from english to german. would be a hard job.....
join the gba and get your hardcopy ;-))

mostwanted:
jumps into a stadium from the roof (germany):
getting the permission holds several difficulties.
from outside of the roof (on top) it is basejumping and therefore you need everything in front:
permissions from the owner, approved gear, insurance, certified jumpers, an expertise from an official to define the settings for the jump (deployment method, gear configuration, etc ....).
from inside (like we did from the island resort dome) it is different. it is parachuting but not in open airspace. this is a little more complex then.
in the past, it was a problem. mainly because the rigs were not approved and therefore not able to be insured.
no approved gear - no coverage - no permission - no jump

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This slider is not (currently) for line overs. It's just to let students experience steering a canopy without having the steering lines routed through the slider or keeper rings, just like they will have to on a slider down base jump.

The idea is you can't skydive a base rig without a slider, but this lets you simulate a slider off jump.

ok, if it is meant like that - got it.
but then, you have to let the steering lines out of the guidance rings at the risers, which is - as far as I know - not like described in the manuals.
personally, I would not like to take responsibility for a "student", having a malfunction because I had modified the slider and having changed packing instructions from the manufacturer.

but we do have better premises here in germany.
we are allowed to drop jumpers with base gear out of balloons.
this with no slider/slider down jumps also.
on jumps like those, they are able to learn the flying with free routed steering lines.
in my experience, once newbies are familiar with flying base canopies with regular slider up packjobs (out of planes), the switch to fly the canopies with free steeringlines is not so difficult.
and it follows the manuals.
out of planes > slider up and routed lines
out of a balloon > either slider up with routed lines or slider down/no slider with free running lines.
just my point of view.

hi micke,
saw the trailer and I have to rethink about my invitation to you, joining us here in germany for some jumping.
I guess we are not ready for the swedish superman...

just kidding. great footage. hope to see you at the cable car boogie or under a bridge here....

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Well it seems like belly mount reserves are optional but lederhosen are not ....

Underground jumpers still wear PVC ....

if they need pvc at your side, we prefer cotton... ;-)

to bring some light to the dark, I try to explain the german system.

in germany, basejumping is like sportsparachuting, so you have to follow the parachute rules and aviation laws.
first we had to do our homework and the paperwork-stuff.
then the technical approvement of our gear.

if you want to jump and you are a newbie, you need instruction and training, a test and a rating system, technical approvements for the rigs, etc...
all this was done.
we made droptests for harness and canopies to get the german tso.
we wrote an instruction manual and this became the basic for the instructional courses.
but for holding a course, you need instructors.
so a handful experienced jumpers with the most amount of knowledge became instructors.
the theoretical part does not really differ from sportsparachuting, except that the "students" must hold a current skydiving license (and the info is much more complex than the skydiving manual).
our gear is certified and insured.

we have to follow the same rules (with some exceptions) as sportparachutists.
and we usually have to wear reserves, because you have to carry a reserve with you at parachute jumps in germany.
exeption is: if we can prevent spectators or others from getting hurt by our jumps, than we are free to use the reserves.
example:
> jumps from a building in a city where probably someone could get hurt (like an exit over a street,....), then we have to wear reserves.
> jumps from a bridge where no one is underneath, then we are free to use reserves.
it is a little more complex, but in general it is like you intend to jump into a stadium.

@jaap: what do you mean with influence?
having the possibility to do legal jumps does not mean every spot is open. the owner of the objects are not like : "you want to jump from my building? ok, go up and have fun" it is always a hard struggle to convince them to open up their property. of course, the main question for them is: what is in for me?
so underground activity is still common.

to get base legal in germany, it was a long and hard way, especially for the heads of the gba.
but we were able to "beat the system by its own weapons".
this is not suitable for every country, of course.
but it worked in germany.
it depends what kind of structure and basics the parachuteorganisation in your country has and how responsible this organisation is, also to be seen in combination with local aviation rules.
question is, who is able and allowed to give you a permission for a jump from a fixed object?
what kind of paperwork has to be done in front?
what are the technical guidelines to your rigs?
do they fulfill your tso-standards?
if not and they have to, what do you need to get them?
will you find an insurance company, that will cover your risks and a third-party-liability (if this is the correct term).

to cut a long story short:
if you want to jump more and official, you have to create an organisation which is very, very competent with the rules in your country and does the long and hard work with the official authorities.

in some countries it would need less work, in others it could be a neverending story.

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Victor, the idea here is for a "student" to get comfy flying base risers/ toggles with a base canopy in a low stress way.]

my opinion is, if you want to teach "students" to fly base canopies in a safe way, do this with a student rig, place the base canopy inside and let them jump it like they find it in the real world afterwards (of course without a reserve).
if they should get familiar with riser-steering, they should learn to fly with not using the toggles and land in a designated area.
if they get in trouble with risersteering, they can come back to the toggles (you never know what they will do...).
once they are familiar with risers, then you can show them the releaseable toggles and they should practice this procedure as well.
it does not make sense to me, showing a student what he will not have on a regular rig, instead of teaching him the stuff he will probably have when he is in trouble with a slider-up-lineover with releaseable toggles.
in the manuals, at slider-up jumps the steering lines have to be routed through the guiding ring at the risers. and this is what he will find on a regular jump.
so why change it?

just for my understanding, what is that for?
sorry, didn´t had a coffee yet...

here in germany, we see it a little more complex.
we from the german base association want to open objects by asking the owners and take small steps forward. we had our official bridgeday weekend and some more events with hard work to get it done and permitted.
jumps and media releases like this jump throws us miles back.
in my point of view, there is no doubt about the circumstances.
legal or not is not a question, sorry.
I am convinced, it worked the "usual" way.
like the petronas story, the baffin story that appeard in the german newspapers or "the lowest base", and so on.
but of course, he is not able to sell a story with the title:
"see me jumping from a building with permission and support from the local police."
this will not bring any headlines or minutes of broadcasting.
it is less expensive for his sponsor to pay for the permissions and the support, keep that halfway secret and sell the pictures to the media as a daredevil-stunt-escape-show.
no newspaper will print the truth afterwards and the game for the sponsor is won.
worldwide presence on the screens...
this is, for the sponsor, a very good thing.
for us jumpers here, it is a nightmare.
we are trying hard to convince owners of buildings and other objects, that we know what we are doing.
and that we play that game in a safe way.
with a mediarelease on the tv and even well known newspapers, this can damage our work of years in a minute.
we do not find that funny. if someone does a jump and gets busted, ok. can happen to everyone.
if asked by the media afterwards, ok - do your best.
but informing the media and police in front, ignoring the ethics and not giving a shit about consequences for the community and selling this as a one-man-superhero-story pisses me on.
the explanation, he has to make a living from that does not work for me.
everyone has to sort his way out.
as long as red bull pays all the fines and travelling expenses it is good for him but not for us.
we all have to suffer from that more or less.
If I would decide to shit in someones backyard would be able to sell that to the media - good for me.
how about the owner of a backyard? do you think he sees that as a funny joke?
The point is, I do understand the politics of red bull.
but does the company understand us?

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How are they getting their other gear back down? Jackets, backpacks, etc...

what goes up, must come down (with you).
if you are able to carry it up, then you will be able to stow it in a proper way and take it back with you on the jump.
or you get sherpas, sponsors or spend a lot of money.
then you do not have the problems.

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statistics are ...well ... statistics. on a dataset of < 100 records, they aren't worth much.

but I think it is a good start.
we here over in germany work on a statistic of our own activities. it will work better with every record we get, but is still not complete.
of course te analysis is not the holy truth, but it shows tendencies and what really happend.
like every statistic, it leaves different ways to react.
no one knows how much jumps have been made in total, even here in germany.
not every german basejumper is in our organisation and therefore it leaves a wide range open.

having a look at "the list" makes me believe, cliffs are the number one danger nowadays.
probably due to the possibilities they offer.
wingsuiting, for example, from an object is still uncommon for the most buildings and high potential multiple aerials are also not usual from "standard" buildings.

"the list" is a kind of statistic also.
sad, but true.

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.....................
if there are 5 times as many cliff jump a year as there are building jumps, that would mean that cliffs are safer than buildings (per 100 jumps) according to the stats... but still too many other factors to draw any useful conclusions...

if you put it in combination with number of jumps, than you get a different view, right.
but when jumping more cliffs than buildings, the risk increases on an E...
still more people die during cliff jumps in total.

hmmm, kind of a "point-of-view" thing...

I agree, if you want a real analysis, based on all available facts, you need more and complete data, like number of jumps done in total, type of equipment, and so on.
this is of course not possible, because we are not in a public sport where everything is recorded.
so you will just get a more or less true estimation.
but every "analysis", complete or not, which leads to just one less jumper going to die
is worth lookin at it and makes sense to me.
I take this as a first step in increasing the safety.
spreading all available info and talking about it is a good way in my thoughts.
like this posting...

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I would not start experimenting going stowed off a cliff but everybody is different. I take cliffs very seriously.

me too. same opinion.

due to the fatality analysis from martin waldron (I hope I got his name right, please correct if I´m wrong), cliffs are the most dangerous things in our sport.
solid rocks are very unforgiving..

watch out, take care.

hi, saw the news on tv here in germany yesterday evening.
nice hanging there ;-)
(ok, what can someone do, instead of just hanging around in a situation like that...)
just kiddin´...

and also nice statement to the camera afterwards.
good to see that you managed all that well.
keep on jumping.
greetz from europe

the garbage thing was just an example.
I did some of my early E´s in that valley years ago.

a few years ago, no one had to drop a message here to name the bad behaviour in that area.
it was common sense not to litter the exit or even the packing area.
I agree, that there is no explicit written down statement, saying :you should not leave garbage behind the pub.
and I agree this should never be neccessary.

in fact, it is like we read it a few weeks ago
as it was posted here in that forum.
was it neccessary because everyone followed common sense?
I guess no.
or the common sense has changed.
what´s your opinion?

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If you need written rules to dicate your BASE career, then maybe you should retire. If you don't get it without "reading the rules", then you never will.

"the" ethics or "the" rules do not exist.
no one "needs" written rules to jump
and this is obvious if you watch nowadays jumpers all around the world.
garbage in the swiss valley, injuries because of trying more than able, burning sites, .. just to mention a few.
what is the difference between being told during a jump course, not to jump in daylight on a sensitve exit or if this is written down?

these guidelines should make visible, what is behind the curtain.
it is not just someone alone with his jump. there is always someone else who wants to jump there.
and it doesn´t matter if legal or not.
we do a lot of official legal or tolerated stuff here in europe and have to act responsible.

in my point of view there is no need to discuss ethics.
ethics demand character.
if someone does not have that, he is excused.

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Ethics in BASE are scarce. Screw all those guidelines. BASE jumping is fun. That's why we do it. It's total freedom.

sorry, not in my name.
base for me is not only fun.
and no way, it is not total freedom.
we are all walking in a world where we are not alone.
we are related to each other in certain ways, if we like it or not.
I don´t want to start a philosophy discussion about freedom of individuals or freedom of mind.
this is a major theme somewhere else.
if you consider yourself beeing totaly free during base, conclusion is that you are unfree most of the rest of your time..
by the way, what would you call guys, that say: slapp a basejumper in the face if you see one, that´s total freedom and pure fun...
but let´s stop that.

it is a big difference between beeing a p-c-pussy and show respect to others.
if this would be your world, your bridge or your selfbuilt object and you were the only one on that planet, then you could be able to speak of totally freedom and you don´t have to care about others.

as long as this is not the case, we all have to follow guidelines and are doing well with that.
more or less, that´s true.
maybe I´m wrong with that for you, but it works well for me.