Bartje

don't they need a medical attest to skydive? Everyone who's in my course does need an medical attest with the docters declaration that the person is fit to jump. A FreeFly Gypsy

it has to be: If someone is afraid for a lawsuit than I start thinking that they are not 100% sure off an decision. my miswriting. A FreeFly Gypsy

I get the impression that we are Don Quichotte, we are fighting against the skydivers mentality, each program can help but will not be the sollution for 100%, the solution is that we have to change the general skydivers mentality and you have to start this with jump one, not with the first jump on a hp canopy, not with the first swoop, we, as instructors has the responsibility each time that we send someone up. If you are afraid for a lawsuit than I start thinking that you are not 100% sure off your decision. I realize hat there will always be a risk but hé, we are doing a extreme sport and that is the first thing what I say when I have a group newbies. Each time when people ask me info and the question is there I will say it. Everybody in my course did hear it minimum once. Each briefing, course or anybody who ask tips and tricks will hear it: Skydiving is a extreme sport and safety is for 99% between the ears. A FreeFly Gypsy

So you will suggest a wl chart and a canopy chart parralel. Do I see that correct? Not a bad idea but a bit confusing I think. A FreeFly Gypsy

Why would you do that, making a differance in braced and non braced hp canopies. A Crossfire2 is for example not that much slower or less performant than a cross braced canopy. Keep the guidelines (or rules) simple as possible, A FreeFly Gypsy

youare right, after posting this reply I continued reading what wasafter and there you are ok. My excuses. I never wish somebody to hurt himself, Keep o, listen to others, we can not stop learning. A FreeFly Gypsy

I do have even a FX89 for sale, thats faster for him to do a accident. Dorbie, I'm already a rebel in my canopy course but you have show me that you are not ready to jump an other (faster) canopy yet. listen to the adivice and stay safe, I would not like to see you in the statistics. A FreeFly Gypsy

You can handle it well your Katana but As I see it it is in the parameters of performance and not only in swooping. Do you think you win much performance with a wl1.55 with your Karana? A FreeFly Gypsy

There are two different ways to aproach a canopy in context of downsizing. My point ass well. I fly my canpopy at +/-80%. In the past I did have a discission with D., he said also that you have to go 100% before dowsizing. In context for a hp canopy perhaps it is better to go 100% before downsizing. I belive that when you are at a wl between 1.0 to 1.5 you do not win much performance with extreem flying, you win some but is not worth the effort. (my personal opinion) A FreeFly Gypsy

Amen A FreeFly Gypsy

As an instructor you need a basic knowledge from the human mind to judge your student. There is not enaough attention at this point during the instructor course. That would make things already safer. The basic rules in skydiving ar ok, when you start doing things the extreem way, like canopy flying or learning it, ypu have to know that it is never safe. Everythin out the extraordenary is not 100%safe and will never be no mater how many rules you make. Thats a good thing that you are aware, make shure that the others are as well. The program you showed is a good program for me, I will use it for sure as a guideline and I hope others do as well. A FreeFly Gypsy

Do not take it out the context. In Australia it works this guideline, in Canada not because they have an other atitude. Safety starts with yourself and you have to bring it over to others. Safety is between your ears. You can make rules and guidelines as much as you want, if they are kept aside you never can make things safer. A FreeFly Gypsy

I never talked about my guidelines. I did said that the chart is good as a guideline but you have to see at the jumper who is in front of you asking questions. You can never make a standard guideline. Therefore it is called guideline and not caled rule. The program you showed me before is a good program. I can work with it and it makes a good guideline for me. Safety is in between your ears. You can not put safety for 100% in a rule or guideline. Safety starts with the instructor and he has to bring it over to the student. When you trying to say for me that I'm not care for students you are wrong. Even the wl chart has his limits as a guideline. Speed is something in between the ears as well. I'm much more at ease when a student understands his canopy and perhaps jumps with a wl higher than what the chart says then a student with a wl recommended at the chart bud does not understand his canopy. We do have a different view at this subject. A FreeFly Gypsy

There is a big differance between a canopy course and canopy guidelines. When you have rules than there will always be rebels who want to do more and are looking for a dz where they can jump the canopy they want to jump. Accidents will happen when they do jump without guidance. Safety start with the instructor, there should be more attention given to the instructors course than what is now. Safety for me is make sure that your student flies safe. The standard for this can be guidelines. When an instructor is well formed and has the capability for making a good judgement you can still take the guidelines but make your own interpretation (as an instructor) For example, a student who does fly a canopy what is not ok with the chart and he still wants to fly it I prefer to look for a solution and not tell him he can not jump the canopy. Perhaps he, or she, shall have to do some jumps with an other canopy to prove he can fly safe but the goal has to be that he, or she, can jump finaly the canopy. You can not stop all accidents but shutting out those people will not drop the number off accidents, they will make the number only higher, especially when they jump without guidance. A FreeFly Gypsy

I do agree with that, We need guidelines and not rules in our sport. A FreeFly Gypsy

I think the program is ok, I'm wondering how you bring it to the students, Would't it be not better to start tell the instructors how to bring it to the students? Briefing skills are even important as the program. A good communicator gives better results. A FreeFly Gypsy

Statistics do not often give source of the problem but there is a problem, thats for sure. Is it not a good idea to start with the instructor training? I'm 100% with you. As an instructor you have to look who you have in front of you when they asking to jump with a camera or doing something else. Like I said before, if there are rules necessary, keep them as simple as possible. A FreeFly Gypsy

Yep, my point as well. Camera or Canopy, there will always people faster or slower ready than other. Skydiving is not an ordinary sport, I know, but I'm afraid that there are coming too much rules so that instructors do not take any responsibility any more. where is the personal input in this generation instructors? Do they need those rules or are they to fast an instructor, can you jump a camera with less than 500 jumps? Can you do a wingsuit jump with less than 500 jumps (or 200 when you have coaching)? The main thing is that you have to realize that you doing something extra ordinary and common sense, from the instructor and student is sometimes even important than number of jumps. What I like in AFF is the fact that the instructor has to give as many freedom as possible to the student when they are in progression. It is the instructors who has to know the skills from the student as his own skills to make this possible. This freedom in progression seems to be stopped when you talk about camera, canopy, wingsuit, ... A FreeFly Gypsy

In canopy your are not occupied with this extra thing and I'm sure that there are skydivers faster ready to jump with a camera before 500 jumps. Canopy piloting is much differant than jumping with a camera but I'm shure you know that. A FreeFly Gypsy

You can not judge it for others, only for yourselfe. And yes, I say also Pull. A FreeFly Gypsy

Jeff, if you do your first jump, first camerajump or even first tandemsjump as a tandemmaster, it stay's the first and you always be occupied buy something else than your jump when you are in the plane. You always need a minimum jumps to do something extra during freeFall. I did hear o story a few years ago from a very experiend skydiver who had buy himselve a new camera. He was oing back to back and his gear was ready at the airplane. He simply forgot to put on his gear because he was occupied with his new toy and yes, he did jump without his parachute. Have fun and keep it safe. A FreeFly Gypsy

I'm allergic to briefings, A FreeFly Gypsy

there is a difference between the movement of your canopy and the movement of your body. With a toggle turn it is your body what is moving (pendula effect) and with a riserturn it is your canopy. It seems the same but it is not. The flightcaracteristics from your canopy are very different. With a toggle turn your canopy is smaller cause to the deformation from the toggleinput (in fact the reason why your canopy turns). With the riser turn it is the deformation and not the surface what is smaller what causes the turn. You can think what the 5 or 10% difference can give but it gives a lot in lift. During a toggle you create a bigger presure difference than with a riserturn in the cells Long story short, you have more lift after a riserturn than after a toggle turn. in context for the 90° turn where the discussion is beginning with, it is a big issue for me. A FreeFly Gypsy

My humble experience said not so. I thought you were talkin about the 90° turn before landing or arent you. A FreeFly Gypsy

It is not only the extra speed that you win with a riserturn, you do not loose any lift in your canopy. If you go on your toggles, you deform your canopy to turn and loose lift at that time. And no, with a riser turn you stay more under your canopy than during a toggle turn. If you Swing out more, than I think you need longer steering lines, perhaps you pull the riser to deep and puling that way as well on your steering lines. During the the riser turn it is not you going around your canopy, it is the canopy going around you. Your body possition under canopy will stay more in the collum. A FreeFly Gypsy