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I said it. What Clinton should or should not have done is irrelevant at this point. What any other President should or should not have done is also irrelevant. What GWB did is what is relevant. He sold you a bill of goods about Iraq being an imminent threat to the security of the continental US with hidden WMD's. Those pesky ones that were so well hidden we still can't find them. Americans also bought in to the implication that Iraq, not Saudi Arabia, was a major player in 9/11. Has Saddam used WMD's in the past, yes. Weapons that we sold him when he was our buddy, that old 'enemy of my enemy' thing. Or weapons he made with technology we taught him to use. Would he use them again in the future, yes, if he had time to make them but as long as the UN inspectors where chasing around it was pretty hard to start anything up. Was/is Saddam a bad man, yes but I don't think he would have killed as many innocent Iraqis in the past six months as we have and I know there would be a lot more living Americans than there are now if we had not invaded a country that was not an threat to us. Now our intelligence community is saying we were tricked in to believing he had more stuff than he really did because either Saddam wanted to sound like the baddest guy on the block or we got bad data from defectors who didn't really know what they claimed to know. I live in Texas and I saw what this man did to our economy and then he went right ahead and did the same thing to the rest of the country. The man is not a class act, Laura is but not him. He is a creation of Karl Rove and a group of talented handlers. Like all politicians of any party he cares about just one thing, himself. "Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening." -- Oliver Wendell Holmes

I saw this guy on an interview show once when I was a kid. Mike Douglas I think. Would have been late '60s, early 70's. He would drive around storms if he saw them coming. "Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening." -- Oliver Wendell Holmes

I'll admit to taking it off topic there in the latter paragraphs but I am afraid that this part of the quote is what really scares me. "Kill em all and let God sort em out" (not said by West but one of the posters here) Does nothing to support our claimed higher moral ground. What if this guy hadn't known anything or was willing to die for the cause? Would West have capped him? We don't know but sooner or later someone will if this isn't punished. Now there are lots of levels of punishment in the military and granted anything that happens is a career killer for this guy. We are supposed to be the good guys, we should act like it. "Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening." -- Oliver Wendell Holmes

Right, and we are the "good guys." When you stoop to the level of the enemy you become the enemy. Doesn't matter if it is a person who supports us or hates us? We are in Iraq for two reasons. 1) Oil and 2) To avenge GHWB - "They tried to kill my daddy." Don't think there is any other reason for this. None of the terrorists who attacked our country came from Iraq. No funding, as far as we can tell, came from Iraq, we haven't found any WMD's in Iraq. Oil and revenge that is all there is. "Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening." -- Oliver Wendell Holmes

Not yet, as a college freshman he has a cash flow problem. He starts a new job next week and I am trying to talk him into saving the money up. Don't mistake this for talking him into jumping, just saving the money. "Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening." -- Oliver Wendell Holmes

Not yet, as a college freshman he has a cash flow problem. He starts a new job next week and I am trying to talk him into saving the money up. Don't mistake this for talking him into jumping, just saving the money. "Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening." -- Oliver Wendell Holmes

This is no way as scary as some of the shit here but it is my story. Back in '79 at Monks Corners, SC. I was doing my third or fourth static line on a T-10. I was last out of the plane and the method for telling you were to steer was a big arrow on the ground. When it was in use they uncovered the tip and it was bright orange so you would see it. Well I leave the plane and look up to a good canopy and then look down to a gray arrow. I try my best to steer in what I think is the right direction. After what seemed like an eternity I see people running across the ground to the arrow and uncovering the tip and spinning it around. Long story short I land on the road base driveway about 20 feet from a building with a corrugated steel roof. They had forgotten that there were four students in the plane. Guess it was better than my friend who landed in a tree the same day! Cost him beer. "Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening." -- Oliver Wendell Holmes

When your AFF instructor says "you fall fast" and your coaches have to curl up into little balls does that make you an "anvil." Naked weight in only about 190 but I guess I am just aerodynamically shaped. "Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening." -- Oliver Wendell Holmes

Just got started here with the community. I "started" skydiving back in 1978 and got in four jumps over the course of about a year. Winds were always to high (over 7mph) for students on the rounds. Last March I took my oldest son to Skydive San Marcos in Fentress Texas and we did tandems. We both loved it. I had a little cash windfall in the way of a bonus at work at signed up for AFF. I am now a licensed jumper and looking forward to learning a lot more. Anybody jumping in central Texas needs to visit SSM as we recently got an Otter after over a year of smaller aircraft. I was fortunate enough to be on the first load and talk about a bunch of pumped people. I'm not sure we really needed the engines to get off the ground. "Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening." -- Oliver Wendell Holmes

AFF level 5 or 6. Just as we stepped out of the plane the DZO called to cancel the jump because the weather had turned ugly. Did the jump just fine and opened at 4,500 in some thick industrial haze. Came through that, found the DZ and aimed myself at it. However the wind had other ideas and sent me backwards away from the DZ. Fences, mesquite trees, cows, garbage dump, cell phone towers, ... AFF instructor telling me that basically I am on my own. PLFed into a clear spot, gathered everything up and started walking back to the DZ when the rain starts. Had to climb one barbed wire fence before I got to the road where I got picked up by the DZ safety officer. Everyone new my name from that day on. "Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening." -- Oliver Wendell Holmes

Come on down to San Marcos and then there will be two in the DZ. "Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening." -- Oliver Wendell Holmes