skydvr18

Well said. And Tree, I have made a few jumps from the bridge, and I plan to do so the Saturday that he is putting wannabes off...but it won't cost me $110 a jump!! To the skydivers...it's not like we're talking about T&F this guy. Most of the debate has been on whether or not this is a concern, which I feel that most agree. As far as how to handle it, I haven't seen anyone post who is AGAINST handling it by talking to the guy. And AJ Hacket is a cool place to do a bungee jump. If you want dead air, go to Vegas. If you want a parachute ride, go parasailing. If you want to swim, go to a pool. Does this mean I'm going to T&F every mother&$%^er that shows up to jump with this guy? NO. Am I gonna take him to jail? NO. Am I going to ruin his business? NO. What am I going to do about it? I've done it...I've given the info to the more experienced BASE jumpers, who can then talk to the guy. If I see him, sure, I'll chat with the guy, but I'm not going to ramble on about the specifics of the bridge, BASE, or equipment...I'm leaving that up to the experienced guys.

I agree that talking to the guy is the best tactic. So any of you who may still be under the misconception that I'm trying to ruin his business, remember that I called as a wannabe to gain information to share with other BASE jumpers. I called the guy earlier to let him know we weren't coming, so he isn't expecting us. I've obtained the info, I've shared it with other jumpers, I told him that my group isn't coming, and now we're working on a plan...most likely talking to the guy now that we have some info on him.

I do agree with the guy on regulation, but not by the county/city. As it's been stated many, many times on dz and blinc, we need to be able to regulate ourselves, without having to bring in outside parties. And I'm not sure who's lying...this guy or the tanning guy. The tanning guy said he's been putting "students" off since '83.

Yes, he is using F111 chutes. I mention the multiple water landings on these rigs because he said he has been doing these jumps since '83, from the same bridge, all water landings. That does not guarantee that he is using those same rigs, but since he has 12 of them, I figure they are the same ones, or at least some of them.

You're right, it did get a bit heated. Those are the steps that I personally recommend...make plenty of skydives, find a mentor or take a FJC, make a few "practice exits" (from a diving board, for example, and make sure you REALLY WANT TO BASE JUMP. Some people want to do it because they think they'll look cool, or get laid more than they do skydiving, or to be able to say "I'm a BASE jumper." I am in now way saying that these are your motives, because having the jumps you do, and having the skydiving abilities that you obviously have, you wouldn't need a BASE jump "to look cool." If you want to make a BASE jump, then I would gladly make a jump with you at the bridge (assuming the proper training, of course). To stick to the topic, my desire is to keep OUR site (yes, it's yours too) open, which is why I called the tanning guy in the first place...to gain information, get the opinions of other jumpers, and decide what to do. We're doing the same concerning the experienced jumpers doing stupid stuff at the bridge.

"you're not doing a good job Mr President. I'll be sure to come seek your aproval befor I jump YOUR bridge." JP, you've got plenty of skydives. If you really want to make a BASE jump, if you take the proper steps (find a mentor or go through a FJC), then I would have no problem with you jumping the bridge.

If it makes you feel any better, we just "chickened out." He talked to one of the "moms," whose two kids are set to do it. He said not to worry, they're in their 20s, and that really doesn't apply in this situation...he's put off people as young as 12. I wasn't trying to sabotage his business, I was trying to gain information. He's not expecting us, so don't worry about the sabotage. The rigs are 15-18 years old, which doesn't matter, because "nylon doesn't break down like silk does. Skydivers' parachutes do, though, because they fly them in the sun, and the sun WILL break down nylon. But you won't be in the air for that long." When I talked to BR about a water rig, they said that water WOULD weaken the nylon. 15-18 years of dropping these things in the water...yet they haven't weakened?? Opinions?

Tom, you may be right. But charging $110 a jumper, with a minimum of 10 jumpers, $1,100 seems like a lot of money to be made in a single morning.

My apologies, I get you and diablo mixed up. A typo is acceptable.

Because it isn't a business, it's some yahoo trying to make a quick buck. Thanks for you considerate response though, much more appropriate than what's going on right now. So I'll do the same thing. I'm not trying to ruin his "business." I've talked to him, and he told me all about his antique gear, lack of experience, etc. Just as we are trying to remedy the situation involving experienced jumpers doing stupid stuff, we are trying to remedy a yahoo throwing people off a bridge that people are already trying to close. He wants to get rich quick, and look at what he is willing to do in order to make money...risk the only legal S in the U.S.

Or better yet, why ask permission at your drop zone? How about I just put signs up, come to the AIRPORT, and start giving wingsuit instruction. Public airport, right? So what would you say about that? The airport, at least most of them, is used by the general public, not just the drop zone. Any better? Forget your drop zone, I'm just coming to the airport to do wingsuit instruction. Are you OK with that? Don't worry, Tom, I'm learning stuff too, and I'm trying to teach something to the skydivers about BASE, and more importantly, our S.

Why don't you learn a little bit more about BASE before you try to argue this point? It's not a B...it's an S. What is he doing wrong? Let me ask you again...what would you say if I showed up at your drop zone with a few skydivers, some wingsuits made out of a ripped-up canopy, and told you I was teaching people with no skydives to fly a wingsuit? What is the guy doing wrong? He is threatening our S by doing stupid stuff like throwing people off with little knowledge himself. And if you were really interested, you would've been to THE BASE SITE to ready my post about this. A friend of mine, also a static line jumpmaster, had a student go in when the guy pushed off the strut, backflipped into the lines, got tangled in them, and died on impact.

Guess what, JP...WE ARE THE GOVERNING BODY. If you don't like the fact that BASE jumpers regulate ourselves, stick to swooping and wingsuit jumping. And re-read the thread...IT IS NOT A BUSINESS. In fact, read my original post. You're a non-BASE jumper, so why don't you let us handle this? And while you're re-reading the first post, notice that he does require non-refundable deposits.

If teaching someone to fly a wingsuit isn't illegal, can I come do it at your dz? I don't own a wingsuit, I've never jumped one, but I HAVE made a few skydives, so that means it's OK for me to do it, right? But I want to come to YOUR DROP ZONE to do it. It might not be illegal, but what would you say if I showed up at your drop zone with an old ripped up canopy sewn to my jumpsuit, with 12 other jumpsuits, 10 people who have never made a skydive, and said I was charging them $110 a jump...what would you say? Is it sinking in yet? Don't forget...I'm coming to YOUR DROP ZONE to do it. Not only that, but I'm going to 50% of the drop zones in the country to do the same thing. So...what do you say?

For the skydivers that aren't familiar with this object, it is the only bridge in the U.S. that is legal to jump 365 days a year. Some of the local non-jumpers have wanted to close the bridge to BASE jumping for a while. It's already being criticized, thanks to a few select individuals jumping from the rail, jumping with skis, and jumping with a surfboard. We're trying to remedy that situation for the same reason we're discussing the amusement park jumps...we want to keep the bridge.

Nope, sorry. But maybe if you contacted the military, they might could get you a 15-foot "shroud line." And just to think...thousands of jumps have been made with a 9-foot "shroud line." We can't keep jumping with these shroud lines!! We need to contact all BASE jumpers that use the 15-foot shroud lines. Oh wait, nevermind, there aren't any.

This guy didn't piss me off, and I wouldn't go so far as to call this "a business." He owns a tanning salon. He said he's been doing this for free, but since he spends an entire day repacking, he figured he'd start charging for it. He calls it "a part-time job." My concern is what's at stake...the bridge. If it got shut down, it'd be similar to shutting down half of the drop zones in the U.S. Even if you don't know much about BASE, as a skydiver, I'm sure you see at least SOME lack of knowledge. He's telling wannabes that "BASE is completely safe, a parachute won't malfunction, all you need to freefall the bridge is a SKYDIVING rig." I wouldn't be against his idea AS MUCH, if he were doing it at a site other than the bridge. I personally don't think it's a good idea, period. But risking the bridge is a VERY BAD IDEA.

AWESOME!!!!!!!! Can I forward that one if I give you credit? Even non-jumpers will love it!!

Never met JT, never jumped with JT...don't care to meet JT, don't care to jump with JT. Actions speak louder than words, so he's not sweet-talking his way out of this one. And I haven't read any scare tactics on here. A scare tactic would be to T&F. THEN HE WOULD BE SCARED. I have seen no posts directed towards JT, only possible options. Besides, does he even know how to use a computer? Can he even read?? I know that he can't hear, because I know of at least two other people besides the one mentioned that have talked to him. When he gets back from Norway, we'll see how he acts. If he doesn't behave, then T&F. My opinion.

Good grief, how many more models of HOPE and BES are we gonna come up with???? What's next, a freefall HOPE? I've got one of those

It gets worse. On the FIRST call, he said 250-300. On the second call, he said 200-250. And he CLAIMS that none of his "students" have ever been hurt or killed. And I haven't pissed on this guy's parade...YET. When I call him Sep. 3 and say "Uh, sorry, we chickened out," THEN I will be pissing on his parade. He'll be down $550, with one lonely wannabe he has to turn away. JP, how much do you know about BASE? If I had to compare it to a tandem, imagine the instructor telling you "OK, you'll be on top, I'll be on bottom, and you'll open the parachute at 1000 feet. When we come in for landing, I want you to fully extend your legs. And don't try to pull down on these little yellow things." That's the knowledge that I see our get-rich-quick tanning guy has.

**ATTENTION ALL NON-BASE JUMPERS AND NEWBIES: DO NOT READ. THIS IS VERY INACCURATE INFORMATION OFFERED BY THE TANNING GUY. IF YOU MUST READ, DO NOT BELIEVE A WORD OF IT. ASK THE EXPERTS.** His name is Jim Wagenman, owner of the tanning salon. I decided to call "Native Skin" and act like a complete moron who was planning on making my first skydive, but now I'm going BASE jumping. After two lengthy calls, below is the information I gained. He was a rigger for 25 years in the military. He has 50 BASE jumps, and 200-250 military static line jumps (he never mentioned sport skydives). He has been giving "amusement park jumps" since 1982, putting off 400 "students." He seems to know a lot about static line jumps, but not very much about BASE. Below is from our most recent conversation. -Me: "So is BASE jumping safer than skydiving?" -Him: "BASE jumping is MUCH safter than skydiving, or even riding in a car, flying in a plane, or riding a motorcycle. BASE jumping is COMPLETELY safe, it is not dangerous at all, since your parachute will open automatically. -"And my friends and I figure it's also safer because it's closer to the ground?" -"That is correct." -"What kind of gear will we be using?" -"40' Air Force rounds, it's a safe parachute. And a parachute WILL NOT malfunction. I've tried my best to pack a malfunction, I've even cut holes all in the parachute." (I should note that this was in the military, and he was throwing dummies out of the plane...not from the bridge) -"My friend did a FLIP accidentally when we went bungee jumping and got burned by the bungee cord. What happens if I flip into the lines?" -"Well, a static line will burn you too. But you won't flip into the lines. Even if you tried to, you couldn't. You'll just jump, feet first. Or you can go head first if you want." Sorry to bring up bad memories, but this concerns the fatality that involved a bridle that was too short (I don't know the details). This is his account: "The sheriff called me when a guy got killed out here, because I'm a specialist. The guy pulled his pilot chute, it got trapped in his 'vortex', and his canopy 'popped out' at 100', but that was too low. His problem was that he was using a 9-foot 'shroud line,' which is what you use for skydiving. But for BASE jumping, you need a 15-foot 'shroud line.'" More lack of knowledge. -"Well I'm glad to hear that!! What if I want to keep doing this? Will it cost $110 every jump?" -"If you want to keep doing this, you MAY want to skydive first, to understand body position. But my rigs are only set up for static line. You'll need to get a SKYDIVING rig. Before you start pulling the pilot chute yourself, you should start with a few practice pulls, a handkerchief or something, on static line jumps." -"Wow, cool!! I know 'a guy at my school' that skydives. So if I borrow his skydiving rig, I can come out there and pull the pilot chute myself?" -"Well, sure, but I'd get with other 'skydivers' for instruction." -"Are there any in Twin Falls?" -"No, all of them travel here to jump." END CALL. I guess he doesn't know about the competition (JT). The first call I made, he gave me some brief info. $110, minimum of 10 people, but he'll put my group of four with another group that's jumping Labor Day weekend (on Saturday, Sep. 4). There's one person scheduled for that weekend. We'll go through a 30 minute "class," jump, land in the water (we'll be wearing life jackets), and a boat will pick us up. He said to mail him our checks, but he won't cash them until AFTER the jump. But if we chicken out, we don't get our money back. Well folks, I'm a newbie myself (13 jumps), but I don't trust ANYTHING that he has said, nor do I believe all of it. It's scary to think that he gives this information to non-jumpers that are looking for an amusement park ride. Anybody know this guy? Any doubt left that this is a bad idea?

I vote T&F...I don't like the idea of getting the authorities involved. It would be a blessing if he gets "legally" banned from the bridge. But what happens when he gets caught doing a bandit jump? Based on what I've read, two of his cohorts (I'll follow the rules by not posting names) have pulled similar stunts. When the cops get tired of showing up all of the time, the bridge will burn. I agree that we need to police ourselves. So why don't we police the current problem? I vote for T&F, but if that isn't the consensus, I vote AGAINST POLICING BY FLAMING. Next step?

Hey Tom A.!! It's been a while...March 2002 in N.O., right? Unless you want to consider the A in AL that I rode down. Glad to know your opinion on BruiseLites. As you may know, I've had to sell my BASE gear to pay for medical expenses. However, I do own a CruisLite, and I am thinking of converting it to a BASE canopy...but only for water-landings at the Perrine :-). As you may remember, I was pretty WIDE myself...so I'd prefer a water-landing at this point in time. I've stood up all of my SKYDIVING landings on my CruisLite. The only "bruise" I've had on a "BruiseLite" was jumping a friend's that had about as many cigarette burns in it that it had jumps on it. It stalled at less than half-brakes. Mine is in good shape, and it stalls at full-breaks at 3-4 seconds. At this point though, I'd kill for a water-landing!!!! What do you think, Tom, modify my CruisLite for water landings ONLY? Hope to c-ya soon. Josh

I have had a seizure disorder since I was 14 (I'm now 22). I only had simple partial seizures though, and I have even had one in freefall. The seizure was over by pull-time, so I didn't have any problems on that jump. BUT I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND JUMPING WITH SEIZURES. I started having complex partial seizures about a year ago. I know that if I were to have one while jumping, it'd be a Cypress-fire and hard landing. I haven't jumped in over a year now because of seizures. In February, part of my right temporal lobe was removed, and I've only had one seizure since then. BUT...I'm giving myself six months of being seizure-free before I get back in the air. I'll ask my neurologist what he recommends, because he is certainly an expert in both areas...seizures AND jumping.