RonD1120
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Quotethis kind of question insults our intelligence.
QuoteWasn't that kinda the purpose of Jesus' ministry while here on earth. Specifically, He made fools of the intellectual elite.
I'm not smart enough to do that. I just barely made it through graduate school. For me every term was a sudden death playoff. All I wanted to do was collect my GI Bill.
You are a attorney. You spend your days and earn your living attacking people's beliefs and discounting their evidence. I'm not a worthy opponent for you.
I have focused a major portion of my life offering encouragement and exhortation to the down trodden, confused, chemically dependent. My original post was an inspirational message to Christian skydivers. I can't debate what has saved my life, my career, my hopes and my dreams. It is what it is.
If someone is at their wits end and in desperate need, there is an answer of hope and substance that has proven to be beneficial to many millions since the creation of man.
I hate to hear that someone met an untimely death through suicide or some poor decision while under the influence of a mood altering chemical. Jesus came to heal the sick, restore sight to the blind, set the captives free and to proclaim the Day of the Lord. That is a worthy path to walk in my book.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. -
Quote>Jesus Christ is one of three things:
>1. He was crazy.
>2. He was a liar. Or,
>3. He is who he says he is.
Or, a fourth possibility:
He was who he said he was, but time, oral tradition and the natural human tendency to embellish have changed his story somewhat.QuoteWhat has changed or been embellished? Ah, that is a baited question. It would take weeks to search out and compare translations to determine their accuracy. Suffice to say, people have tried to disprove the Scripture and it can't be done. You may not buy in but you can't disprove it.
>If a beautiful woman tells you she loves you and gives you a big hug and
>a kiss and this makes your spirit soar, is that not a real, verifiable
>experience? Can anyone tell you that your experience was false?
If you see a movie that shows that happening, and you feel your spirit soar, would you call that a real, verifiable experience? Does that mean the movie is "real?"QuoteMy personal experience was not a movie. It was life changing reality.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. -
QuoteOk. That kind of "evidence" doesnt do such a great job of convincing people. Also, where do you get the notion that sensory experience constitutes evidence? Sensory experience is very deniable. Think of all the times that your senses have failed you. Have you ever heard something that wasn't there? Have you ever felt pain when there was no pain to be felt? Have you ever seen something that can't be explained?
We have reason to suspect that empirical inputs are false, given that they have deceived us before. (Thank you, Descartes)QuoteIt is not my job to convince anyone of anything. I have nothing to gain.
If a beautiful woman tells you she loves you and gives you a big hug and a kiss and this makes your spirit soar, is that not a real, verifiable experience? Can anyone tell you that your experience was false?
For the same reasons above, the empirical world is dubious in itself.
Can you tell anyone the experience was true?
Remember, religious arguments depend on faith in things that haven't been proven necessarily true. "Facts and evidence" are not the reason that you believe in God. Faith is. (And that is ok in my book, just don't say that you know that god exists... cause you don't.... That is true for the same reason that I don't know that God doesn't exist. We lack evidence)QuoteThat's it. That is the essence exactly. Without faith it is impossible to please God. The Bible says we are all given a seed of faith. We have to nurture it to make it grow.
>Knowing Jesus, as opposed to just going to church and believing Jesus' teachings, is a good thing.
I totally agree with you. However, we still don't have enough evidence to make it necessarily true that some ethical principles are in fact morally correct and others aren't. Therefore, you don't know that believing Jesus' teachings are good. However, I think they are good, just like you do.QuoteOK.
>Out of the emotion of love comes the desire to share. God desires that all receive the gift of His love.
Totally. However, it would be interesting if you could tell me which pieces of information (that someone else gave you, btw) that makes it necessarily true and undeniable that God in fact says that.
Your argument is problematic for the same reasons that an extremist muslim's arguments about God are false. You don't know that God said those things. You have inferred information from other assumptions that, while still allowed, aren't necessarily the case.QuoteThe New Testament book of John Chapter 3, verse 16.
QuoteThey work for me. I think they will work for others because of my experience in life and I believe the Bible is truth.
>Jesus Christ is one of three things:
1. He was crazy.
2. He was a liar. Or,
3. He is who he says he is.
>If He was either of the first two, why would any of the first disciples submit to beatings, imprisonment and execution to carry the gospel message to the world?
Because people lie to each other all the time. Remember the last time millions of people the world over believed in Naziism? Hitler didn't actually know if the supreme race was white persons or black persons. However, millions of people still followed him and millions died. Therefore, no matter how widespread your support is, widespread support is no reason to follow someone's teachings.QuoteNot unless it works for you. It works for me. Try it and see if it works for you. You don't have to tell me. Just go to your secret place and ask Jesus to come into your heart and into your life. See what happens.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
QuoteIt's a logical impossibility to prove that something doesn't exist. It's up to you, as the person asserting that something does exist, to prove it. Please look up "Russel's Teapot".
Agree. Like I said. I am not trying to prove or argue anything.
My original post, Sunday 6/28, was for Christian skydivers. I was sharing. Some readers want me to argue or prove something. That is not my interest. I like to share good things.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
Quote>These original followers of Christ were convinced that he was the Messiah, the Son of God. None, not one broke ranks. I don't know about you but, to me that is a powerful conviction
Wow. That is pretty amazing.
People also had 2000 fewer years of history to look back on as well. Is it possible that they could have believed someone who in fact wasn't who he was? Were they any more deceivable than they are today? You have to admit, even today people are still VERY gullible. You know, kind of like how the Obama crowd is still very gullible.
These disciples listened to Jesus, observed His miracles, watched Him die and then saw Him alive. Then, they watched Him ascend to heaven. They all agreed on that. They disagreed on how to tell others. But, they went to the death standing on their conviction that Jesus Christ was truth.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
QuoteYou might consider that there is a distinction between feelings and knowledge.
BTW, what are you, or were you, saved from?
Absolutely, I agree there is a distinction.
I was saved from spiritual death, later delivered from the desire for alcohol and drugs. I have been saved with certainty of the experience since 16 Mar 81. I have been straight, clean and sober since 26 Mar 83. I have worked as a Christian based counselor since Apr 84. The Christian Skydivers Association was founded in Apr 87.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
QuoteEven better if he could show that such a thing (the soul) exists.
The soul is defined as the mind, the emotions and the will.
Do you think those elements exist?Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
QuoteQuoteJesus Christ is one of three things:
1. He was crazy.
2. He was a liar. Or,
3. He is who he says he is.
If He was either of the first two, why would any of the first disciples submit to beatings, imprisonment and execution to carry the gospel message to the world?
Just to play devil's advocate here: this alone isn't a very convincing argument. False prophets & cult leaders have also had their devout followers who would also suffer & die for their leader.
Quite true over time. All beliefs have their willing martyrs. I remember Buddhist monks self-immolating to protest the Diem government in South Vietnam.
What I am talking about is the very first followers, the first twelve, all becoming martyrs. Well, all except John, he was only scalded with boiling oil and then exiled to the island of Patmos, where he died of old age after completing five books of what became the New Testament Bible.
Chuck Colson, a key player in the Nixon administration, stated that when the Watergate scandal broke the best and the brightest, most powerful individuals in the world couldn't hold it together longer than two weeks.
These original followers of Christ were convinced that he was the Messiah, the Son of God. None, not one broke ranks. I don't know about you but, to me that is a powerful conviction.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
QuoteQuoteAs I stated above, the evidence exists with the person who had the experience.
Are you laughing? I want to know if I'm laughing at you or with you ...
I don't know. I can't tell where you are coming from. I will assume you are laughing with me because at this posting there have been over 300 hits to a message I posted.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
Quote>I should have said subjective, verifiable evidence.
But subjectivity is dependent on your emotions/feelings/beliefs. How is that "verifiable evidence?"
Objectivity is characterized by concrete facts, and those concrete facts are what constitute verifiable evidence.
As much as I like the words of Christ, it is still hard to be definitive in saying that he is 1)the son of god and 2)that God does exist.
Given the information we have now, we cannot deduce the existence of God.
However, we can construct some interesting inductive arguments as such. None of which make it necessarily the case that God does or does not exist.
As I stated above, the evidence exists with the person who had the experience. It is a change of personality, a change in the mental processing, a change the emotional makeup. Paul refers to the renewing of the spirit in the mind of the believer, put off the old and put on the new. See the New Testament book of Ephesians Chapter 4.
If a beautiful woman tells you she loves you and gives you a big hug and a kiss and this makes your spirit soar, is that not a real, verifiable experience? Can anyone tell you that your experience was false?
Knowing Jesus, as opposed to just going to church and believing Jesus' teachings, is a good thing. Out of the emotion of love comes the desire to share. God desires that all receive the gift of His love.
Jesus Christ is one of three things:
1. He was crazy.
2. He was a liar. Or,
3. He is who he says he is.
If He was either of the first two, why would any of the first disciples submit to beatings, imprisonment and execution to carry the gospel message to the world?
When I look at photos from the Hubble telescope, as one consideration, I have to accept a supreme creator being.
What evidence do you have to support your belief that God does not exist?Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
QuoteI hate to break it to you but this story has been shared ad nauseum already and the more it gets dredged up, the more rediculous it sounds.
Consider this, by your responses you help to keep the topic fresh. Forums thrive by response.
Thank you for your assistance.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
QuoteSubjective "evidence" isn't evidence. It's just faith. Which is great and all, but just because one person feels strongly about their faith doesn't mean everybody else should rush off to follow them.
I totally agree. No one should rush off and follow any one claiming to know the way. However, if you find your back up against the wall, need help and no one is there for you, try Jesus. If you ask in faith, by faith you will be answered.
Ask and you will be answered. Seek and you will find. Knock and the door will be opened.
Hebrews 11:1 (New King James Version)
By Faith We Understand
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
The Bible states that we will all accept Jesus Christ in His deity and His authority. It is better if we do it voluntarily while we are here on earth.
It always remains an individual choice. We all have free will.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
QuoteIf you go and look up what constitutes evidence (you can ignore the objective and verifiable provisos) and then look up the word faith, you will see why your argument fails by its very definition.
Objective, verifiable evidence is a term I learned at university studying accounting. I used it incorrectly. I should have said subjective, verifiable evidence.
For a complete exploration of faith see the New Testament Book of Hebrews, Chapter 11.
If you believe you are engaging in argument, you have missed the point. I am not here to argue. I am here to share.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
QuoteVerifiable by who?
The one enjoying the experience.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
QuoteBut you have to wonder, would the fact that some people still haven't moved on from the superstitions of a bunch of iron age goat herders make some sense anthropologically speaking if they actually were a kind of internaly-dead organic automaton?
Back in the late 80's I was given the honor of working on the campaign for Brian Pappas for the office of Commissioner of Education in Florida. Brian is a Christian attorney and an excellent debater. When challenged publicly one of his tactics was to confront the superstitions of his opponent. His basis was that a superstition is a belief without evidence.
When a person surrenders his heart to Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour something happens that provides the evidence of salvation reality. That experience is not faked. When you are saved, you know that you know. It is a decision made in faith, perpetuated by faith, grounded in Scripture.
Christians possess objective, verifiable evidence to support their belief. Our commission is to share the good news of the experience and let others know it is for them as well. As Roger Nelson used to say, "Share the love."Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
QuoteQuote>that is not an attack bill, it is the truth.
Talking about religion is fine. Telling someone they are out of touch with reality is not.QuoteHis profile lists his interest as 'living in a seperate reality'. His sigline is 'have you considered eternity?' 'Tis but a small step to put those two together.
Thanks for pointing that out. I was in a humorous mood when I created my profile.QuoteBTW Bill, wasn't there also a rule about SC worthy siglines not being allowed if the person posted outside of SC?
Please explain. Thanks.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
June 28th.
APPREHENDED BY GOD
"If that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended.” Philippians iii. 12.
Never chose to be a worker; but when once God has put His call on you, woe be to you if you turn to the right hand or to the left. we are not here to work for God because we have chosen to do so, but because God has apprehended us. There is never any thought of—"Oh, well, I am not fitted for this.” What you are to preach is determined by God, not by your own natural inclinations. Keep you soul steadfastly related to God, and remember that you are called not to bear testimony only, but to preach the gospel. Every Christian must testify, but when it comes to the call to preach, there must be the agonizing grip of God's hand on you, your life is in the grip of God for that one thing. How many of us are held like that?
Never water down the word of God, preach it in its undiluted sternness; there must be unflinching loyalty to the word of God; but when you come to personal dealing with your fellow men, remember who you are—not a special being made up in heaven, but a sinner saved by grace.
"I count not myself to have apprehended; but this one thing I do..."
From My Utmost for His Highest by Oswald Chambers
Christian skydivers are not expected or required to be "preachy" on the DZ. However, when the situation arises we are required to offer Scriptural truth and to present to good news of salvation, commonly referred to as "the gospel." The burden is then on the receiver not the speaker. Allow the Holy Spirit to provide your boldness at the opportune time.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
QuoteQuoteRemember STD's and unwanted pregnancies are the risks of promiscuity just like malfunctions are the risks of skydiving. If you are going to play the game you better consider the risks and deal with them in a mature manner. There is only one choice that is a 100% guarantee of safety in either activity.
Really...? A great many (I would venture to say most) people with STDs and/or unplanned pregnancies are not promiscuous.
Promiscuous (Webster's): "characterized by a lack of discrimination; specif., engaging in sexual intercourse indiscriminately or with many persons"
I assume the 100% guarantee you speak of is abstinence (I apologize if I'm wrong), but STDs can be passed on in a number of ways without intercourse.
Indiscriminate sex is sex without marriage. That can be one or 100. STD means Sexually Transmitted Disease. So were are not talking about polio or MS, et. al. Blood born pathogens do not require intercourse. Oral sex will work as well for the virus to find a host. Like I said, if you are going to play around that is your choice but, you better know and understand the risks. That is, if you want to play for a long time. Your personal life is your business.
I have just retired from social services. We have constant emphasis on training for staff and educating clients on HIV/AIDS. I have seen the results of infection and it is not pleasant. If you get it, it is for the rest of your life. To manage the disease requires a unique personal cocktail of Rx meds, maybe as many as 20 or so per day. They make you nauseous, listless, weak and generally take all the fun out of being alive.
If your sex partner does not offer to use a condom, he didn't offer with his last partner either. HIV can remain dormant for a long time but the carrier is still contagious.
You may be very careful. However, when alcohol and/or drugs are involved judgment is diminished, tremendously.
"It's almost dawn and the cops are gone. Let's all get Dixie fried." ~ Carl PerkinsLook for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
http://tinyurl.com/nhxngr
http://www.youtube.com/user/theBSdoctor
This guy has some good stuff. I had heard of the study he mentioned some time back. At the time it was connected to the prevention of Alzheimer's Disease. It follows the old saying, "use it or lose it."
From a personal standpoint, I began the application of the concept in my early recovery utilizing the teaching of Charles Solomon and his "Spirituotherapy." His theory is Christ-centeredness. I also tied it in with Carlos Castaneda's writings plus an Eastern philosophy.
Castaneda wrote that we spend our lives living inside a bubble of knowledge. We think the purpose is to learn all we can about the inside of the bubble. Only a few people ever consider the journey to the outside of the bubble. That is the fear on the unknown.
That fear must be faced from the very difficult position of admitting to ourselves and others that we are ignorant, not stupid but rather unknowing. To consciously travel from the inside of the bubble to the outside, we must break the surface or shell of the bubble. When that happens our consciousness is flooded with new information. That influx of new information must be categorized, organized, defined and applied. The Eastern philosophies refer to that as consciousness expansion or the unfolding of the lotus blossom petals.
For some, such as alcoholics and addicts, there is actual emotional pain experienced as one realizes past failures, injustices and injuries to others. The pain is the shell of ignorance being broken. It is also called, suffering the ego death.
The Eastern philosophy says, man-up and search for the next growth experience for god is within you. The Judeo-Christian philosophy says, ask for forgiveness and humble yourself before God. Of all the world religions, Judeo-Christian is the only one with the concept of sin.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
QuoteQuoteGod will not be mocked.
Yes he will, he's a whiny little cunt and needs regular put downs to ensure he knows his place. You wouldn't believe the ego on that fucker!
I understand why you are a hobo.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
QuoteI think this was a great interview on both sides.
I agree.
An aspect of the abortion debate that does not get much attention is the emotional trauma to the father. That is assuming the father is aware and actually wanted the child.
In my experience, I've come to believe that when you choose to avoid responsibility of a problem you get another one of greater proportion and consequence. I think it's better to accept difficulties as they come.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
I live in good ol' Polk County... smack dab in the middle of the state... I think this entire county was plucked straight out of Alabama, or maybe Tennessee or possibly even Georgia....
There is a strong rumor that "Bevis and Butthead" was modeled from a trailer park in Polk County.
Polk County was considered to be the meth lab capital of the U.S. in the mid-90's.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
*Big Ol Snip*
Spoken like a true Floridan. I am a true Floridan. Came on down here in 1950 with my P's from Ahia.
One more, "He just needed kill'in is claimed to be a justifiable defense."Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
QuoteSaw on the evening news where Pres. Obama was giving an interview in the White House and was being bothered by a fly! Well... he caught and killed the fly. The camera panned to the deceased fly on the carpet. Now, PETA is going nuts and not at all with our fly slaughtering President! Like none of the PETA folks have never killed a bothersome fly? Sheeesh...
Chuck
PETA lost credibility many years ago. I am a pet lover but as southerner, PETA means People Eating Tasty Animals. Remember there is room for all God's creatures, right next the mashed potatoes.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
Sunday 6/28 Message
in Speakers Corner
I do the best I can with what I've got.
BTW, have we jumped together or had a mutual client or clients? No names of course, maintain confidentiality.