RonD1120

Sophistry certainly seems to go hand in hand with religion, along with a need to resort to emotional blackmail, an inability to understand the nature of evidence, shifting the definition words, pretty much every philosophical and psychological dirty trick in the book. I'm not sure whether that is a deliberate ploy or whether the religious really can't smell what they are shoveling. Either prospect makes religion a decidedly vulgar business. See: http://atheism.about.com/od/logicalflawsinreasoning/a/sophistry.htm According the above explanation, I am not guilty of sophistry because I base my position on Scripture found in the Holy Bible and consider Scripture absolute truth. Operation in the spiritual realm is by nature outside the bounds of rational thinking. It is irrational. The spiritual thinker is outside the bounds on accepted intelligence. This begs the question, why would someone desire to live in that realm? What is the payoff? Not money, not power, it makes no sense. Yet there are those who chose, as Scott Peck described in his book, The Road Less Traveled. that direction. That being said, I will no longer respond on this thread. I will post a new message when I receive the unction to do so from the Holy Spirit. Thanks to all who have taken the time to respond. You words stimulate me and give me prayerful direction Anyone may contact me back channel however. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

I do the best I can with what I've got. BTW, have we jumped together or had a mutual client or clients? No names of course, maintain confidentiality. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

>If a beautiful woman tells you she loves you and gives you a big hug and >a kiss and this makes your spirit soar, is that not a real, verifiable >experience? Can anyone tell you that your experience was false? If you see a movie that shows that happening, and you feel your spirit soar, would you call that a real, verifiable experience? Does that mean the movie is "real?" Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

If a beautiful woman tells you she loves you and gives you a big hug and a kiss and this makes your spirit soar, is that not a real, verifiable experience? Can anyone tell you that your experience was false? For the same reasons above, the empirical world is dubious in itself. Can you tell anyone the experience was true? Remember, religious arguments depend on faith in things that haven't been proven necessarily true. "Facts and evidence" are not the reason that you believe in God. Faith is. (And that is ok in my book, just don't say that you know that god exists... cause you don't.... That is true for the same reason that I don't know that God doesn't exist. We lack evidence) >Knowing Jesus, as opposed to just going to church and believing Jesus' teachings, is a good thing. I totally agree with you. However, we still don't have enough evidence to make it necessarily true that some ethical principles are in fact morally correct and others aren't. Therefore, you don't know that believing Jesus' teachings are good. However, I think they are good, just like you do. >Out of the emotion of love comes the desire to share. God desires that all receive the gift of His love. Totally. However, it would be interesting if you could tell me which pieces of information (that someone else gave you, btw) that makes it necessarily true and undeniable that God in fact says that. Your argument is problematic for the same reasons that an extremist muslim's arguments about God are false. You don't know that God said those things. You have inferred information from other assumptions that, while still allowed, aren't necessarily the case. >Jesus Christ is one of three things: 1. He was crazy. 2. He was a liar. Or, 3. He is who he says he is. >If He was either of the first two, why would any of the first disciples submit to beatings, imprisonment and execution to carry the gospel message to the world? Because people lie to each other all the time. Remember the last time millions of people the world over believed in Naziism? Hitler didn't actually know if the supreme race was white persons or black persons. However, millions of people still followed him and millions died. Therefore, no matter how widespread your support is, widespread support is no reason to follow someone's teachings. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

Agree. Like I said. I am not trying to prove or argue anything. My original post, Sunday 6/28, was for Christian skydivers. I was sharing. Some readers want me to argue or prove something. That is not my interest. I like to share good things. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

These disciples listened to Jesus, observed His miracles, watched Him die and then saw Him alive. Then, they watched Him ascend to heaven. They all agreed on that. They disagreed on how to tell others. But, they went to the death standing on their conviction that Jesus Christ was truth. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

Absolutely, I agree there is a distinction. I was saved from spiritual death, later delivered from the desire for alcohol and drugs. I have been saved with certainty of the experience since 16 Mar 81. I have been straight, clean and sober since 26 Mar 83. I have worked as a Christian based counselor since Apr 84. The Christian Skydivers Association was founded in Apr 87. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

The soul is defined as the mind, the emotions and the will. Do you think those elements exist? Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

Just to play devil's advocate here: this alone isn't a very convincing argument. False prophets & cult leaders have also had their devout followers who would also suffer & die for their leader. Quite true over time. All beliefs have their willing martyrs. I remember Buddhist monks self-immolating to protest the Diem government in South Vietnam. What I am talking about is the very first followers, the first twelve, all becoming martyrs. Well, all except John, he was only scalded with boiling oil and then exiled to the island of Patmos, where he died of old age after completing five books of what became the New Testament Bible. Chuck Colson, a key player in the Nixon administration, stated that when the Watergate scandal broke the best and the brightest, most powerful individuals in the world couldn't hold it together longer than two weeks. These original followers of Christ were convinced that he was the Messiah, the Son of God. None, not one broke ranks. I don't know about you but, to me that is a powerful conviction. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

Are you laughing? I want to know if I'm laughing at you or with you ... I don't know. I can't tell where you are coming from. I will assume you are laughing with me because at this posting there have been over 300 hits to a message I posted. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

As I stated above, the evidence exists with the person who had the experience. It is a change of personality, a change in the mental processing, a change the emotional makeup. Paul refers to the renewing of the spirit in the mind of the believer, put off the old and put on the new. See the New Testament book of Ephesians Chapter 4. If a beautiful woman tells you she loves you and gives you a big hug and a kiss and this makes your spirit soar, is that not a real, verifiable experience? Can anyone tell you that your experience was false? Knowing Jesus, as opposed to just going to church and believing Jesus' teachings, is a good thing. Out of the emotion of love comes the desire to share. God desires that all receive the gift of His love. Jesus Christ is one of three things: 1. He was crazy. 2. He was a liar. Or, 3. He is who he says he is. If He was either of the first two, why would any of the first disciples submit to beatings, imprisonment and execution to carry the gospel message to the world? When I look at photos from the Hubble telescope, as one consideration, I have to accept a supreme creator being. What evidence do you have to support your belief that God does not exist? Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

Consider this, by your responses you help to keep the topic fresh. Forums thrive by response. Thank you for your assistance. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

I totally agree. No one should rush off and follow any one claiming to know the way. However, if you find your back up against the wall, need help and no one is there for you, try Jesus. If you ask in faith, by faith you will be answered. Ask and you will be answered. Seek and you will find. Knock and the door will be opened. Hebrews 11:1 (New King James Version) By Faith We Understand 1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. The Bible states that we will all accept Jesus Christ in His deity and His authority. It is better if we do it voluntarily while we are here on earth. It always remains an individual choice. We all have free will. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

Objective, verifiable evidence is a term I learned at university studying accounting. I used it incorrectly. I should have said subjective, verifiable evidence. For a complete exploration of faith see the New Testament Book of Hebrews, Chapter 11. If you believe you are engaging in argument, you have missed the point. I am not here to argue. I am here to share. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

The one enjoying the experience. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

Back in the late 80's I was given the honor of working on the campaign for Brian Pappas for the office of Commissioner of Education in Florida. Brian is a Christian attorney and an excellent debater. When challenged publicly one of his tactics was to confront the superstitions of his opponent. His basis was that a superstition is a belief without evidence. When a person surrenders his heart to Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour something happens that provides the evidence of salvation reality. That experience is not faked. When you are saved, you know that you know. It is a decision made in faith, perpetuated by faith, grounded in Scripture. Christians possess objective, verifiable evidence to support their belief. Our commission is to share the good news of the experience and let others know it is for them as well. As Roger Nelson used to say, "Share the love." Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

Thanks for pointing that out. I was in a humorous mood when I created my profile. Please explain. Thanks. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

June 28th. APPREHENDED BY GOD "If that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended.” Philippians iii. 12. Never chose to be a worker; but when once God has put His call on you, woe be to you if you turn to the right hand or to the left. we are not here to work for God because we have chosen to do so, but because God has apprehended us. There is never any thought of—"Oh, well, I am not fitted for this.” What you are to preach is determined by God, not by your own natural inclinations. Keep you soul steadfastly related to God, and remember that you are called not to bear testimony only, but to preach the gospel. Every Christian must testify, but when it comes to the call to preach, there must be the agonizing grip of God's hand on you, your life is in the grip of God for that one thing. How many of us are held like that? Never water down the word of God, preach it in its undiluted sternness; there must be unflinching loyalty to the word of God; but when you come to personal dealing with your fellow men, remember who you are—not a special being made up in heaven, but a sinner saved by grace. "I count not myself to have apprehended; but this one thing I do..." From My Utmost for His Highest by Oswald Chambers Christian skydivers are not expected or required to be "preachy" on the DZ. However, when the situation arises we are required to offer Scriptural truth and to present to good news of salvation, commonly referred to as "the gospel." The burden is then on the receiver not the speaker. Allow the Holy Spirit to provide your boldness at the opportune time. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

Really...? A great many (I would venture to say most) people with STDs and/or unplanned pregnancies are not promiscuous. Promiscuous (Webster's): "characterized by a lack of discrimination; specif., engaging in sexual intercourse indiscriminately or with many persons" I assume the 100% guarantee you speak of is abstinence (I apologize if I'm wrong), but STDs can be passed on in a number of ways without intercourse. Indiscriminate sex is sex without marriage. That can be one or 100. STD means Sexually Transmitted Disease. So were are not talking about polio or MS, et. al. Blood born pathogens do not require intercourse. Oral sex will work as well for the virus to find a host. Like I said, if you are going to play around that is your choice but, you better know and understand the risks. That is, if you want to play for a long time. Your personal life is your business. I have just retired from social services. We have constant emphasis on training for staff and educating clients on HIV/AIDS. I have seen the results of infection and it is not pleasant. If you get it, it is for the rest of your life. To manage the disease requires a unique personal cocktail of Rx meds, maybe as many as 20 or so per day. They make you nauseous, listless, weak and generally take all the fun out of being alive. If your sex partner does not offer to use a condom, he didn't offer with his last partner either. HIV can remain dormant for a long time but the carrier is still contagious. You may be very careful. However, when alcohol and/or drugs are involved judgment is diminished, tremendously. "It's almost dawn and the cops are gone. Let's all get Dixie fried." ~ Carl Perkins Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

http://tinyurl.com/nhxngr http://www.youtube.com/user/theBSdoctor This guy has some good stuff. I had heard of the study he mentioned some time back. At the time it was connected to the prevention of Alzheimer's Disease. It follows the old saying, "use it or lose it." From a personal standpoint, I began the application of the concept in my early recovery utilizing the teaching of Charles Solomon and his "Spirituotherapy." His theory is Christ-centeredness. I also tied it in with Carlos Castaneda's writings plus an Eastern philosophy. Castaneda wrote that we spend our lives living inside a bubble of knowledge. We think the purpose is to learn all we can about the inside of the bubble. Only a few people ever consider the journey to the outside of the bubble. That is the fear on the unknown. That fear must be faced from the very difficult position of admitting to ourselves and others that we are ignorant, not stupid but rather unknowing. To consciously travel from the inside of the bubble to the outside, we must break the surface or shell of the bubble. When that happens our consciousness is flooded with new information. That influx of new information must be categorized, organized, defined and applied. The Eastern philosophies refer to that as consciousness expansion or the unfolding of the lotus blossom petals. For some, such as alcoholics and addicts, there is actual emotional pain experienced as one realizes past failures, injustices and injuries to others. The pain is the shell of ignorance being broken. It is also called, suffering the ego death. The Eastern philosophy says, man-up and search for the next growth experience for god is within you. The Judeo-Christian philosophy says, ask for forgiveness and humble yourself before God. Of all the world religions, Judeo-Christian is the only one with the concept of sin. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

Yes he will, he's a whiny little cunt and needs regular put downs to ensure he knows his place. You wouldn't believe the ego on that fucker! I understand why you are a hobo.

I agree. An aspect of the abortion debate that does not get much attention is the emotional trauma to the father. That is assuming the father is aware and actually wanted the child. In my experience, I've come to believe that when you choose to avoid responsibility of a problem you get another one of greater proportion and consequence. I think it's better to accept difficulties as they come. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

I live in good ol' Polk County... smack dab in the middle of the state... I think this entire county was plucked straight out of Alabama, or maybe Tennessee or possibly even Georgia.... There is a strong rumor that "Bevis and Butthead" was modeled from a trailer park in Polk County. Polk County was considered to be the meth lab capital of the U.S. in the mid-90's. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

*Big Ol Snip* Spoken like a true Floridan. I am a true Floridan. Came on down here in 1950 with my P's from Ahia. One more, "He just needed kill'in is claimed to be a justifiable defense." Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.