rjf98

The assault weapons ban had nothing to do with the most recent of school shootings. It didn't stop the criminals from getting guns. NO Law you write will stop criminals from getting guns. That's the argument from those that oppose this ban. Only LAW ABIDING citizens can't have the guns. How about this. If you use a gun and kill someone and then we catch you... YOU DIE. I don't want to turn this into a death penalty argument. It's just that the ban takes away what I as a law abiding citizen can enjoy and does nothing statistically relavent to make everyone safer.

Let's stick to the topic. Assault weapons ban. Do you honestly believe that you are safer due to the ban? If you do than the quote applies. If you don't feel safer... well... what's the use?

Fine.. I HATE reloading. It hurts my thumbs and I see it as a waste of time. That's my reason. Fair enough. National guard works for the federal government and not the state. Precident already shows us that when push comes to shove (state's will vs federal government's will) they follow the orders of the president and NOT the governor. That however is for another thread. Do you believe that people should be responsible for their own actions? What about their own lack of action or preparation. They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790), Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

Sounds like you and I agree on a lot of this, but here I have to disagree. The argument that the weapon itself makes one a more efficient killer is constantly used by the anti-gun side. I remember late 2002 during the DC sniper shootings. A reporter from Fox went to a range to fire a bushmaster and was showing everyone her "almost" bullseye from 15 yds. Problem was she didn't go into minutes of angle and what that distance actually equated to at ranges of 100 yds or more. I also tend to disagree with the argument that shooting someone is somehow less personal than stabbing them. Just not the same. A sniper sees the face through the scope, he watches the victim fall and die. Go and talk to any combat vet sniper (or police sniper that's done the job) they'll tell you how personal it is. Handguns are the same way.. even the best trained can't take a man down over 50 yds really. Maybe you could argue "not AS personal" as an edged weapon, but it's definetly not the weapon that makes it easy to kill. Plenty of time spent studying the individual soldier in combat will tell you that they constantly shoot high or close their eyes before shooting, or purposfully miss. Only by good training, leadership, and peer pressure do they actually muster the ability to kill another human being.

Source qoute here. Sorry quade, but I used this site particularly because it was put there by supporters of this bill. If they aren't going to site a study where "Police across America reported that semi-automatic assault weapons had become the 'weapon of coice'..." then I don't belive that the police actually reported this. If they did quote a study, I would want to study the language. Semi Automatic weapon does not equate to assault weapon as shown by my previous post. I'll accept that the whole quote can be attributed to Mr Pasco and that it is grammatical error that there are no quotes. Still, Assault Weapon as defined by the bill has little to nothing to do with the power of the weapon. How does a bayonett lug or a flash supressor effect the penetration of a round. Why not limit ammunition types? Why the cosmetic refrences. Sorry, but dozens of innocent victims in this country doesn't require ANY regulation, because statistically it isn't relavent. We kill dozens of skydivers every year and we aren't screaming for regulation from the federal government. That may sound cruel, but in a country of over 150 million dozens is statistically irrelevant. So, uh, yeah, I can really see how "The majority of this bill did nothing but harm law abiding citizens." How can you say that those examples are in any way a reflection of the VAST majority of gun owners in this country. Why don't you show me a percentage of fire-arms purchased to a percentage of fire-arms used in a crime. I'll even throw the gauntlet out that if you can show me that more than 50% of legally purchased Assault Weapons (even if defined by the far to broad standards of the 94 assault weapons banl) were used in crimes then I will change my mind and support it. You can't, the stats don't exist. The MAJORITY of gun owners have them legally and don't use them in crimes. I would like John Rich to step in here again if he is still paying attenion. I'm sure he could point us in the right direction to start viewing stats of how many lives were saved in TX by legal gun owners and carriers after the concealed carry law was passed. If that number outweighs the deaths caused by legal gun owners seems to me we are causing more deaths than we are preventing by stopping law abiding citizens from owning guns.

BUMP!

I was trying to find the original language. Here is as close as I could come to the assault weapons ban in 94 In 1994, the Federal Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 was passed. This law banned rifles that had detachable magazines and two or more of the following characteristics: A folding or telescoping stock A pistol grip A bayonet mount A flash suppressor, or threads to attach one (a flash suppressor reduces the amount of flash that the rifle shot makes. It is the small birdcage-like item on the muzzle of the rifle) A grenade launcher. Grenade launchers were already illegal. EVERYTHING (with the exception of the already mentioned grenade launcher) on this list is cosmetic in nature. EVERYTHING!!! None of them have ANYTHING to do with the operation of the weapon or the type of round it fires. Here are quotes from the Brady Campaign website http://www2.bradycampaign.org/facts/faqs/?page=awb The majority of this bill did nothing but harm law abiding citizens.

Two things here: I don't see how jumping a 170 diminishes the pleasure of your skydive over a 105 either... Well, I do, but I'm sure not going to tell you you can't have it. It's not about what you CAN do with the item. Second: I will challenge you that currently we don't need a well regulated Militia to guarantee the security of our free state. While slightly off of the deepend here. If EVERYONE, or maybe just a few of the passengers on the hijacked airlines would have had their personal weapons handy I bet a few lives would have been saved. Would some innocents have died due to misplaced rounds. Probably. Would less have died because the terrorist would have. Definetly. One form of gun regulation I am for. MANDATORY training. At least in it's basic form. I understand the first part of the second ammendmendt. I do think that requiring some sort of training on the tool needs to happen in a day and age where they just aren't as common place as they were back then.

Quade: Sorry, but an M4 with the right ammunition would be a beautiful home protection weapon and could easily be fired from the reclining position. Most experts will tell you that a shotgun is the best weapon for home defense. Why??? Well it makes a very distinct noise when a round is chambered, and with the proper round one shot aimed at the center of a doorway will do someone in fairly well. I think you make generally very well thought out comments, you don't seem to be doing so in this arena. Have you ever been to a defensive pistol or rifle course? What about a basic fire-arm safety course. First one I ever went to (before I got into the military) we were told that in the situation of home defense, stay in your room and let them have the damn TV... it's simply not worth taking a life over, or loosing yours. If they come in the room, don't stop firing until your out of bullets. That honestly is what the majority of law abiding gun owners belive. No one wants to take a life, but wants the ability to do so in defense of their own.

IF your target is right nothing 1" at 15ft not impressive

Stick your bare hand up under the the roots or other growth waiting on the sucker to bite. Most injuries occur when it's not a catfish that bites, but rather a snapping turtle. Bye Bye Finger

It's called noodeling. Nooddeling. You know like spaghetti noodles...nodlles AH HELL

[Rich stands up at attention as the war hymn is sung loudly] Damn you make me proud. Did I ever show you my photo from muster in Diwania after the war?

I remember leonerd (damn spelling) form AOT jumped a canopy he made once. Called it the stealth. Funny thing was that the slider wasn't collapsible. We should post to the listserve.

Michele: Were you at the tunnel... how'd I miss ya? Shark and I were at the bombshelter on Saturday night and then headed to the tunnel to see Lou, Erin, Taz, Stan, Chris, and a few other Elsinore types play.

Aw shucks

There ya go Duce. That's what I'm talking about. It's not about how the fish tastes, but how well the batter is made. By the way.. great DZ.com vid preview. I'll have to make that next year.

That would be smart girlie

Word I've got some new FF pants to try out. Tell me there's a rig I can borrow. Sounds like the end of March before I have my canopies in to put together my gear.

[that growling sound from the song Pretty Woman] I have know idea how that would be spelled grrrrowwlll

OK That;s it... Clint you and AD suck! I know I'm no cute skychick or anything, but damn! The least you could do would be to acknowledge it as a good thing I'm comming into town I'm not being any of your friends anymore Unless you say "Rich we are VERY happy you are comming into town and want to jump with you too!" Then I'll be your friend again

I've got a sony memory stick reader. The kind that looks like a floppy disk and reads out of the floppy drive. Anyway. I ran the win 2000 setup in 2000 mode, but for some reason the program doesn't recognize that I have a floppy drive plugged in via USB. Couldn't find an XP driver on Sony's site, or Windows site. Anyone got ideas?

I fly in tomorrow as well... Austin of course. I don't think we're even going to attempt to get up to CS the first night though, havn't seen Gin in like 2 months We should be up later in the week or the weekend though.

What are you wearing??? A KILT Nice swoop.

Kim: Haven't heard you in a while. What's up chica? No this isn't throwing down the gauntlet or anything. Mine is already ordered, just wanted to know what was up from Vigil's perspective.