rjf98

Well I would think that the definition of a resident would have been an understood among reasonably educated persons. I don't know... maybe the same requirements that the state uses to determine residency. This has degenerated from a reasonably educated conversation and debate about the merits of what constitutes a record.

Depends... If HWY 8 is shut down due to the fires it's going to take you a while. Other than that your looking at only about 5 or 6 hours tops. I drove in from Pheonix on Sunday night because my plane was shut down from the fires. It was a long drive and wait.

I don't think you ought to wait around to do a big way... I don't think you ought to be able to CLAIM a "sate record" if there isn't a certain percentage of locals on the jump. Go do big ways anywhere you want... have fun with it. Just because you got 100 people out of an airplane doesn't mean it's a record. Record attempts should be special. A STATE record loses part of what makes it special if it doesn't have a large representation of THAT states local talent. Where did you get the impression that I was saying anything else?

MMMMMMM BBQ

My experience in Big Ways... minimal at BEST. That's my point. I think the proper solution to this is for those local jumpers to take the time to train the local talent to break the record. Sure we can say that the state record got big quicker by doing it with outside talent, but where is the bigger reward? What if Texans can say that their biggest is 125. So what if it takes 5 years to get to 130. If it's local talent that they grew then THAT is the biggest accomplishment. I knew you were a skydiver with goodness at heart

I think I don't undestand you appeal to big way events. Is it really the chance to hold "some kind of record" after it's all said and done? Or do you genuinly like jumping big ways and traveling to do it? I understand not wanting to travel and spend your money on an attempt that won't complete. What I don't understand is this need to be a part of a record in a state that you don't really claim as your own. Now if a big way jumper were all that talented, they wouldn't be just waiting for the next record they could break easily, wouldn't they want to be part of a national, or world record attempt? Those are ground breaking. My sentiments are still with Nullified. Some small state with limited jump season (I don't know... let's just say New Hampshire) puts together a 60 way. It's got 50% local talent. To me much more impressive than a group of big way enthusiast that go to the location and put together a 150 way. If they put the 150 way together great! That's really cool. But what's the difference of doing it in New Hampshire or Arizona or anywhere else for that matter? My real question is this. What's the draw flyangel2? Nabbing some record that could easily be broken by a large group of experienced jumpers? This is in no way a personal attack, and I don't think you are a jumpsnob for not wanting to throw your money away at attempts that just won't go.

Easy killer

I'm with you nullified. I think state records should feature local talent and I would support a %75 requirement for them. I didn't know they weren't "official". If there aren't official records... then why are some listed as official and some as unnoficial in parachutist???

Uhhh... we put on a long sleeve T-shirt

OK: Took a look at your profile. Obviously you're not a student asking questions. Is there something you are observing that isn't safe, have you talked to your S&TA and brought it up? I'll say generally that after one tandem jump it would not appear that the BSRs and or the ISP is/are being followed if what you say is the case. I'll also say that there was a time when AFF / Harness hold was done with 1 JM with somone who had never jumped out of an airplane.

I'm having the same problem here. I don't get an e-mail notice on threads that I'm watching.

I don't think Gary is monitoring this post, and it was his idea originally so I don't know what kind of plans he has. I think, like we have always done, Marines would welcome the chance to jump with our brothers and sisters in arms. Don't know what Gary is thinking about a USMC big way or formation load, and I'm sure you all would understand if he wanted one jump that was all Marine, but I'm pretty sure he would want to jump with you guys throughout the day like I would.

From the 2004 SIM BSR section. "(1) All students must jump with two USPA AFF rating holders until demonstrating the ability to reliably deploy in the belly-to-earth orientation at the correct altitude without assistance." Now what are you considering a level I? Don't be confused, I know of a DZ or two that do crossover training, and students think they are doing a level I AFF skydive when they are really a cat D student doing a level IV. Someone will inevitably tell you that if you are at a non USPA DZ then it doesn't matter. I think you aren't technically doing a "USPA AFF" jump then either, you're simply doing that DZs student progression. Nothing illegal about it at all, they just don't follow USPA's recomendations or programs.

OK, since I'm lazy... "restricted air space" How far away from the airport (busy "international" will I need to be to not be in restricted airspace) I've gotta assume that my parents 41 acres about 15 miles from it is gonna be located inside of that zone below the airspace.

WAY TO GO ELSINORE!!! Congrats to Adrenaline, can't wait to see you guys back at the DZ.

Hmmm Are you a corpsman

Hey MJ: Is it too late to ask that the 9th of Nov gets switched to the 8th?

Semper Fi Mac, You know I'll be there, and I won't even work that day :) Nothing but fun jumps... wonder if we can get a Marine formation load or big way? Been lot's of new Marines at Elsinore lately.

I think you are a little off base about what is expected of a coach. It's not several days, but rather 2 for the course. You are expected to sit through 1 complete FJC and help teach the non-method specific portions of two others. I forgot what my coach rating cost, but it wasn't more than about $200, and that included the 2 evaluation dives. Spending the classroom time is more about learning what the DZ and ISP are teaching the students than testing you. It's not fleecing the student or the community to try and get a base level of instructor ability out there. Just because you can fly doesn't mean you can teach, and just because you can teach doesn't mean you can fly. You've got about 3 times as many jumps as I do. I bet you can fly WAY better than me, and I bet that you can teach just as well too. Go and get the rating if you want to jump with non-licensed jumpers. This is not a post to piss anyone off, I don't understand why the majority of posters seem to think that ratings are a bad idea, or that someone is trying to question their abilities by asking them to get a rating in order to do a certain type of jump.

Ok.. I've been discussing this at my DZ, and I want to hear some thoughts on what other skydivers think. Why don't we run Nats more like a track meet? Hear me out: I think that in order to spark interest in the general public we need to make it more of a team event.. something where someone who didn't even know that much about skydiving could root for their favorite team. So SkyDive XXX sends competitors in 4 way, 8 way, 16 way, Canopy Formation, Freestyle, Accuracy, FF, Sky Surf. Their jumpsuits should all be more or less matching color schemes, or at least some sort of warm up suit that looks the same. Introduce the "teams" at the beginning and run the thing like a track meet. 10 points for first place through 1 point for 10th place, and keep a medal count on the scoreboard at all times. Now at the end of the meet, perhaps the big dogs have won 4 way, but that DZ that sent 3 or 4 teams that mopped up places 5, 7 and 8 has just as many points. It makes the competition bigger. Later down the road teams start having canopies and containers that have the same color scheme. This is what American's like to see IMHO. Please chime in. I'd love to know what you all are thinking on this and if there is any support out there in the general skydiving community. I don't have things firmed up in my head, but with some work I think we could put a proposal together to the USPA. I know there are DZs out there that would NEVER be able to compete with places like Arizona, or Elsinore, or GK, but the olympics has small countries that have surprises and heart warming stories of athletes that overcome the odds to bring glory and fame to their country (think your cessna DZ here).

Good things that come from not very many skydivers: 1) Less government interference in our sport 2) Tighter community 3) Those that are involved are more of an "elite" in the eyes of their peers (very good for some... KRAMER) 4) Personal relationship actually develops between suppliers and buyers of gear. ( I know Kelly makes hundreds if not thousands of rigs a year, but it was nice to actually talk to HIM on the phone or via email while I was waiting on my infinity.. product plug.. and it was nice to meet him on equal grounds at Elsinore.. DZ plug Bad things that come from not very many skydivers: 1) Less market share resulting in fewer sponsorhips from LARGE companies (Nike, gatorade, etc ) 2) Much less lobying capability to fight for our sport when one A hole gets upset because little johnny dies and thinks it's completely unsafe and no one should jump, or that skydivers are a hamper to the local airports ability to expand 3) Longer for the limits to be expanded both because the talent pool is smaller and there isn't RD money (landing a wing suit, 300 way.. 500 way) 4) Less opprotunity for professional skydivers to make a REAL paycheck resulting in less professional instruction. (I'm an AFF-I so no one start screaming here, I know that the majority of our instructors only do it part time and that the level of instruction is very good, but it could be even better if there were actually economic incentive to specialize) 5) Fewer "large" DZ's with turbine aircraft and immaculate facilities As you can see in my opinion more skydivers means a better sport. I'm sure there are many who disagree, and I KNOW I have forgotten some good things. I do think that all in all more skydivers would be better.

Dave: I'll get you the model number this weekend.

If it's anything like Perris' tunnel I suspect the date will continue to be pushed to the right for 3 or 4 months.

Noticed you're from Canada. Here in the US you have to jump to be a military rigger. Unless someone has newer info than I do.

I usually am the last person to ask for more regulation. I have in the past put my nod into not having a BSR for canopy size regulations. After following the post though, I find my position somewhat hypocritcal. How can we say you have an A license you need to pull by 3,500 and you have a D-license you pull by 2,000 and not license the type of canopy we fly? I think the question is really... how do we enforce this without increasing our costs dramatically? So we through a BSR out there. How many times has someone had a cypress fire and not been given a suspension by the DZ for pulling low? I used to think this argument about wingloading was nothing more than rehashing arguments that you can read about in the 1980ish issues of Parachutist. Now I'm not so sure. The question is this: Will USPA become a true governing body, or is it merely a way to through out suggestions? I think the majority of skydivers (in this country anyway) would prefer it throws out some suggestions and basically leaves them alone. Yes it means more death, and some bad pub for the sport. It also means we have more personal responsibility, something I think most of us truly believe in or we wouldn't be risking our lives by jumping out of planes every weekend.