flyingferret

I was there for both occasions Hard to believe it has been 5 years. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

Indeed it is, and thanks to casedilla for showing me the thread. Extra points if you can name the head in the background. I believe that I can, and I can probably guess where it was as well. Tom probably also has more jumps on the Perrine than any other jumper. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

Yep, it is not yet a dead snake, and that is the important part. I agree it certainly looks like a cottonmouth to me, maryland or not. And the aggressive test is quite true, and I don't mean defensively aggressive. These suckers will try to get into your boat aggressive. We see plenty of them in Texas. In my opinion, unless it is a 6 inch garden snake, it is better dead, so I don't end up regretting my taxonomy classification mistake. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

Some of us don't -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

Nice...pretty sweet little cars really. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

I must say, like for many other purposes, California is a different world. The traffic regs for bikes, and even for where you can get a ticket are amazing. I wish we had them. Cops have to do full studies on spots before they can camp out there. And lane splitting is legal, and the reason is a hold over from when bike could not handle waiting that long with an air cooled engine. So...at least there everyone knows the bikes might be there. If you split here, noone expects it, and you are gonna get smashed. Secondly, California highway drivers are some of the best I have seen. Everyone know where they want to be and the get there within 30 seconds of getting on and they stay there. They are MUCH better than texas drivers, IMO. I don't really like lane splitting, but in CA I would consider it a lot more than here. That being said, you are right, an HD is a big beast to take down that line. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

hehe, remember the video of the chick road rash? I cannot seem to get my Fat Boy's wheel off either...it pulls hard, I might half an inch and it settles back down. Back pegs...hmm....I think I might still be scared

Oh yeah, that was the other thing I was gonna repond to. In some states (most I think, and Texas is one) you have to have insurance. Even if they didn't riding a $20K bike with a loan payment I would want it. That said I get full comp and collosion, etc on my fatboy for about $700 a year, and I am a 26 year old male. How much is twin engine plane insurance? My bike is a few $100 cheaper than my car per year. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

ATTENTION EVERYONE: STFU!!! That statement settle the debate right there. That determine cruiser over at 750+. Not gonna do it easily on anything else. Funks: I started to responsd, but Gravity Master did it for me. JackC: I know MANY sport bike riders that cannot corner like that. It is as much rider as bike. Hisgoofyness: Dead spot on. I completely agree with you. Do you guys really want to start this argument....again? Here is the summary: Cruiser riders accept that some of us suck, and some are excellent riders, and there is no broad measuring stick Sport riders think that a capable bike is a broad measuring stick and that every sport rider out there is a bad ass. I bit naive, don't you think. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

Yep, I am 5'11" and love the fit of the fat boy, although I want to put a few inch risers on my bars and bring them back a bit. I have lindbars http://www.lindbycustom.com/index.html# and love em....sweet look, great customer service. They are NOT there for protection, but it makes you worry less about dropping the bike like all these sport bike riders seem so concerned about. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

Yep, just like smart jumper never jump without shoes or a helmet or gloves. But....on nice days most of us do. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

Thank you! I know a handfull of people include small framed women who liked the big frame better than the sportster because of COG. Glad you like your Fat Boy. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

Well said....retail is location, location, location. Riding is caution, caution, caution, much more so than bike, bike, bike. Someone posted some rider's rules a week or so back. In summary, the minute you think you no longer have to be cautious, get off the bike. I have heard it many times before. Your mindset has more affect than any engine, frame, etc. Because with the right mindset, you can evaluate the rest of the factors. I will agree with BoostedXT on the weight aspect. But practically is an issue. 500lbs for a light cruiser does not feel like much less than 680 for my fat boy. That said, I would not want the extra 100lbs for the springer front end. You are right though, for any beginning rider, slow speed manuvuers will be the most cautious part. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

I didnt :-p I posted first, and not to argue, but offer advice. I even warned about the impending opinion storm. I responded to your post, which your credit you have edited to exclude cruisers. Even, before that edit I said: "This really only applies to sport bikes. And I would mostly agree with you," I am not trying argue...this just keeps coming up, and I have strong opinions about it. And usually the sport crowd disagrees. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

Wendy, I respect as a rider, and you notice that she mentioned several bikes all bigger than 700. The 350, she described I am not aware of a 350, but that maybe me. Regardless you see her progression. Conundrum: How many times do I have to mention cruiser vs. sport bike. Can you quote a model other than a crotch rocket? I have said post after post that crotch rocket is a different story, and have said in a post that I woul recommend no more than 600, or better yet 500. Have you read those? Gravitymaster, I also respect as a rider. "Nope. Most people I know who invest that kind of money in a cruiser have the common sense to get instruction, stay on the back roads, read books, and take it slowly." is a very good point and half of the what I am trying to say. Your approach is more important than the bike, barring the obvious cruiser/sport choice. Additionally, I agree with you on the MSF course, but how much would a day of one on one instruction cost? For a true newbie rider...some people need that 3 days. They cannot assimilate all the information in one day. Imagine completing AFF in one day....possible, but not probably for many. In fact in general, that might be a good comparison. Does AFF or student progression clear you to buy a x braced canopy, no. But it is the first building block in learning and is the huge step percentage, maybe a bigger single leap than any other advancement. Would you advise a student to buy a Manta main? A lot of common thought advises a square zp canopy at a ratio of about 1:1 or less, coupled with careful progession and coaching. A bike is the same deal, but ever easier...you don't have a set minimum speed (rate of descent), you have near unlimited flare (braking ability), and no ground rushing at you (you can ride where you want to). So wouldn't you rather have a bike that you feel comfortable with after the first 100 miles? IF apporached carefully, there is no inherent danger. IF not approached carefully....well then any bike you own is a danger. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

How about his head? Or his back? or his body? We are anticipating him putting it down and we are worried about damage to the bike? If I had gone into riding planning on falling, I think I would have stayed out. That is the point of the MSF course is to teach you how to stay up. Regardless I know what you ride, again....sport vs. cruiser....apples to oranges. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

Bet a heavier bike would have been blown over With or without you on it. In fact, thanks for proving my point. I have had this arguments at least half a dozen times in this forum alone. I would seriously be intersted in the people responding: Who has a cruiser? Who has taken an MSF course? Before or after a mishap? How many miles a year do you ride? Have you ever known people who own a cruiser who took it back because their first purchase decision was flawed? Too big or too small? IF you rule out the MSF my opinion would be different. But the MSF course is the most important part regarding safety. And once you finish that course you will anxious to get off that 250. I am average at 5'11" and 190lbs....and I felt cramped even shifting. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

Yep, and I have put mine down. At 5 mph. That does not mean it should play into your buying decision there are MANY more important factors. That is like buying a canopy because of how it cuts away. Everyone will chop. But you fly much more often than you chop. And you ride much more often than you drop. To plan on a vehicle you don't mind dropping sounds counterintuitive to me. I have a $20K+ plus...it is a great incentive to keep it rubber side down. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

Like you buy a car you don't mind wrecking? How about learning not to dump it? Nothing personal, I like you. But I think your judgement was more suspect than the 700. Yep, an MSF course. Did you have one before wrecking the bikes you listed? Exactly. What are you gonna do on a 250cc scooter? Evade? I think not. NO, it is NOT. Advising them to buy a R1 would be like that. Advising them to buy a 750+ cruiser would be like a Sabre 2. Sport bike vs. cruiser is analogous to the wing form factor (square, semi, full-ellip) Engine size is analogous to the size. The form factor is at least as big a factor in the decision. To the original poster, I say again, you are gonna get eleventy billion responses based mainly on what people ride. The single biggest factor again, is sport or cruiser. If you want a cruiser then ignore all the people ranting about sport bikes. Almost everyone in this thread that is describing death defying riding experiences is doing so with memories of a large CCs sport bike. There is a night and day difference between them. And quite frankly, if 95% of your experience is on a sport bike, you really have not business describing our a cruiser rides. Likewise, I have very little experience with a sport bike, and will tell you that I would not start not advise more than a 600 for a new rider, and maybe a 500 if you could get it. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

Well, I am biased but I see your point. However my first street bike was a 1435cc Harley Twin. And 20K miles later I am still alive, and I will outride the hell out of 750, and not because of the CC difference, but because of bike handling. But everyone is comparing apples to oranges, that is my point. I would feel more leary putting a new rider on a 125cc or 250cc dirt bike than a 1000 cruiser. It is all about torque and weight. What are the chances you will slip a clutch and wheely the 125? I think we have all done it. Do you have any idea how you could wheely a Harley....you have to REALLY work at it. Stability is the key and a bigger bike gives it. Between a 750 and say a 1200, if things go truly bad, you are not keeping either of them up, the only difference is more weight to pick up. However, with the right weight and balance, the 1200 might be a hold better handling at speed than a smaller bike. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

This really only applies to sport bikes. And I would mostly agree with you, except who really makes a common bike under 600? I know plenty of people that start with an r6 and do fine. Just be careful guys...you are trying to accident proof a hobby. You can't with skydiving or motorcycle riding. Just be safe. It is not like the bike is going magically over power you. Just be cautious with your riding style and where you ride for the first 6 months. That will do a lot more to prolong your life than buying a little bike. The key to riding is knowledge and attitude. And again, lets determine if he wants a cruiser or a sport bike, shall we? -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

You guys are unbelievable. Was your first car a yugo? Did you buy the same kind of car you used in driver's ed? The MSF course is to teach you to ride. Your first bike is to 'grow' with. No growing on a 250cc. I went to the MSF course with a guy that had already picked a bike. He thought he was all set and knew everything. 3 weeks after the course he traded in the bike. The course changes everything. Take it and then pick. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

The thing that gets overlooked in this debate so often is inertia and momentum. If you are not a current, please understand coming from a rider that sitting on a bike in a dealer and thinking it feels like a lot of bike means NOTHING, except how much weight you have to pick up if it goes down. The physics of a bike in motion are completely different, a contriibuting factor to why I recommend 750+ Besides in the US market it is hard to get a cruiser under 750, I think... Anyway, I would recommend taking the safety course before making the purchasing decisions. Then tests rides if you can swing them. There are just so many factors that you will understand better while the bike is moving. Dealer showroom is a good place to see if it is comfortable, but it is kinda like looking at a canopy in hung up in a loft, it will only tell you so much. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

Yes you can. Although I don't advise it. My personal record was I30 and Eastchase (right by 820) to my parents IN Sherman in about 70 minutes. That said, yeah, I don't recommend doing it that way. I bet Kris was just rounding. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

A lot of info (and arguing) here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1601737#1601737 In short summary, I ride an HD FatBoy, it was my first street bike, and I highly recommend buying a bigger bike to start with. Not quite a bosshoss though...yeeesh. In the cruiser world, the equation between CCs and ridability is very different than the sport bike world. Imagine it like buying a diesel car vs. buying a turbocharged sport car. The torque and power is all different. I would not buy a cruiser under 750, due the power availability when you need it. Additionally, a balanced heavy bike will ride much smooth than a lighter bike with a lighter/higher center of gravity. Additionally, a wide front tire makes a HUGE difference. Not for everyone, but you will find a ride much less correction and more directional stability. Read the thread above if you like, and PM if you want. You are gonna get a bazillion answers based pretty much on what the post author rides. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.