muff528

Members
 View Profile  See their activity

  • Content

    4,127

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Feedback

    0%

Posts posted by muff528

  1. billvon

    >Yes, we, as a country, have decided that killing a few random citizens is much better
    >than killing tourism.

    Yep. Heck, we believe that killing 13,000 random citizens a year is preferable to slightly higher electricity prices. We even have people here defending that idea.



    Relax, ...we'll get our alternative energy in due time.

  2. billvon

    >You keep harping on illegal immigration

    Since it was in your first post on the subject:

    Quote

    ***CDC is saying that one of those is probably the source.


    I'm sure that the flood of illegal immigrant "children" who recently arrived from Central America has not even crossed their minds.



    If you are walking that one back - good on you.

    If you read my posts with any comprehension, you might understand I was commenting on the CDC and this administration's failed immigration policy, and using a recent, high-profile event to only to make the point. You guys ran with the notion that I was disparaging illegal immigrants aspect from there.

    Quote

    > I don't have a political agenda with regard to immigration. . .leftist caterwauling and
    >insinuation about racism, misogyny, etc. as part of their counterattack to perceived
    >attacks on their agendae. Of course, the goal is to shut down dissent. Even some
    >lefties are getting tired of that.

    A priceless bit of SC gold.



    See there? You're doing it again! A lot of contextual stuff left out where you put those 3 dots. Another well-documented lefty tactic. Fools' gold.

  3. kallend


    There are some 50,000,000 legal foreign visitors to the US every year. They way outnumber illegals.

    Requiring vaccination records from all these would essentially kill tourism in this country



    Yes, we, as a country, have decided that killing a few random citizens is much better than killing tourism. "For the greater good", and all that. We can always blame them for their own demise anyway. I might even agree to some extent.

  4. billvon

    Why? Anti-vaxers? Immigration? Probably could be either, or both, in this case.

    http://www.cdc.gov/measles/cases-outbreaks.html

    Measles has been on the rise since 2007, which saw a historically low number of cases. We saw a significant increase in 2011 and 2013 and then a very big spike in 2014. Thus we'd expect to see more cases in the US this year as the disease spreads rapidly through the usual methods of contagious disease propagation.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=http://www.pewhispanic.org/files/2014/09/PH-2014-09-03-immigration-01.png&w=1484

    Meanwhile, illegal immigration peaked in 2007 and has been below that peak ever since.

    So going by the available facts, the most likely cause is the spreading contagion within the US. (I realize that makes it harder to achieve your political goals on immigration, but that's life.)



    You keep harping on illegal immigration which says more about your political agenda than mine. Measles don't care whether immigrants are legal or illegal, and in fact the first link I posted, dated today, does imply that the CDC ("public health officials") recognizes a Filipino nexus for the current outbreak. Besides, I'm only asking questions. I don't have a political agenda with regard to immigration. I do support the enforcing of immigration laws for a variety of reasons, none of which are grounded in racism, nationalism, or any other bigotry. As such, I have come to expect leftist caterwauling and insinuation about racism, misogyny, etc. as part of their counterattack to perceived attacks on their agendae. Of course, the goal is to shut down dissent. Even some lefties are getting tired of that.

  5. Overall the US has 92% vax rate for measles. http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/02/02/obama-cdc-urge-vaccinations-to-curb-measles-outbreak

    From the same article: "Public health officials attributed the spread to people traveling from the Philippines, which experienced a measles epidemic." (...probably going to Disneyland.)
    ______________


    Herd Immunity Threshold - I've seen numbers from 90-94%. Presumably, some of the 6-10% are anti-vaxers and some are not eligible for vax. Could undocumented immigration, legal or illegal, push the real unvaccinated numbers below the ~92% threshold, allowing an outbreak to occur?
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16218769

    _____________

    Different story in the UK: http://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/why-vaccinate

    "This is precisely what happened in England when MMR (measles, mumps, and rubella) vaccination rates dropped. Measles is extremely infectious; therefore, it has a higher herd immunity threshold than most other diseases. In the late 1990s, MMR vaccination rates began to drop from more than 90% to 80% or lower—well below the level required for herd immunity against measles. In response, the number of cases began to rise: while only 56 cases were confirmed in Wales and England in 1998, 1,348 were confirmed by 2008. A disease whose spread in the country had been halted more than a decade prior was once again endemic."

    Why? Unchecked immigration? Sudden increase in religious/ideological/fundy taboo against vaccination? Both?
    ______________

    ...And in California: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/vaccinated-people-catch-measles/story?id=28631939

    "Those five known vaccinated people were all residents of California where many counties are below the 92 percent vaccination rate required for "herd immunity" threshold, according to state health department."

    Why? Anti-vaxers? Immigration? Probably could be either, or both, in this case.

  6. ryoder

    Requirements to visit US:

    There are no vaccination requirements for visitors to the United States.

    Source: http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/destinations/traveler/none/united-states


    Requirements to immigrate to US:

    Under the immigration laws of the United States, a foreign national who applies for an immigrant visa abroad, or who seeks to adjust status to a permanent resident while in the United States, is required to receive vaccinations to prevent the following diseases:

    Mumps
    Measles
    Rubella
    Polio
    Tetanus and Diphtheria Toxoids
    Pertussis
    Haemophilus influenzae type B
    Hepatitis B
    Any other vaccine-preventable diseases recommended by the Advisory Committee for Immunization Practices

    Source: http://www.uscis.gov/news/questions-and-answers/vaccination-requirements



    Thanks! ...at least there are some rules that have been estasblished and (/cough) are being followed.

  7. billvon

    > I am blaming the outbreak on moronic (with regard to public health, among other
    >things) immigration policy and using the unchecked mass influx of undocumented
    >migrants as an example of that idiotic policy.

    Do you have even the slightest shred of evidence that this measles outbreak was caused by illegal immigrants? Even a tiny _hint_ of evidence? Or is it complete BS?



    No, I did not say they were the cause. I did suggest that "illegal immigrants" are a subset of possible sources ...and they are. Do you have definitive evidence that they are not? How about from legal immigrants? Why are you intentionally suggesting that I've excluded that possibility. I haven't excluded visitors, tourists or returning travelers, either. Nor have I excluded Europeans, Tasmanians, Brazilians, Kardashians, or Uighurs or the Halicheki Bird People as possible vectors.

    Quote

    >While I believe that vaccination should be universal, I think it is disingenuous and
    >self-serving to blame the folks who actually contract these mostly-eradicated diseases
    >in their own countries for their own infections rather than blame piss-poor, irresponsible
    >immigration policy.

    So rather than blame the people who could stop the disease in its tracks (but just don't want to) you blame something that, as far as anyone can tell, has nothing to do with the issue. Well, I blame creationism. So there.



    Well, the disease can't be stopped in its tracks through vaccination alone. As has been pointed out, there are "huge numbers" of folks who are not able to get vaccinated and who remain vulnerable to infection, even if vaccinations are mandated. As I said, folks should get vaccinated. They should also have a reasonable expectation of controlling, to the extent that we can, the spread of infectious disease across borders. Especially one that had been previously eradicated.

    Quote

    > Even now, we don't know (or won't reveal) from what region of the globe the US
    >outbreaks originated ...

    We do know. Anaheim, California.



    OK, let me re-frame. Even now, we don't know (or won't reveal) from what region of the globe the measles virus that caused the US outbreaks recently came. But, maybe you are right. Maybe the measles bugs have been lying in wait, a pimple on Mr. Toad's azz for years, waiting for some poor, irresponsible, unvaccinated kid to climb aboard.

  8. FIrst, I am not specifically blaming the current measles outbreak on the recent flood of illegal immigrant children. I am blaming the outbreak on moronic (with regard to public health, among other things) immigration policy and using the unchecked mass influx of undocumented migrants as an example of that idiotic policy. But, the fact that they are "undocumented" allows me to call "BS" on the notion that we can be sure that they are all healthy because of some claim from the WHO, etc. They rely on cases which are reported to hospitals, clinics, etc. Not necessarily just referring to measles, but any infectious disease.

    To clarify, the specific points I was making are:

    1. While I believe that vaccination should be universal, I think it is disingenuous and self-serving to blame the folks who actually contract these mostly-eradicated diseases in their own countries for their own infections rather than blame piss-poor, irresponsible immigration policy.

    2. These days, immigrants (and visitors) are mostly allowed into the country with very little, if any, screening for disease. And folks travelling to other countries from the US seem to no longer be required to vaccinate against various local or regional diseases. (I don't know if that is correct ...that was really presented more as a question.)

    3. Even now, we don't know (or won't reveal) from what region of the globe the US outbreaks originated ...even though we do have the ability to identify, with a reasonable degree of certainty, which strains are involved in the infections and where in the world each of these strains are prevalent. Maybe this is some big secret or maybe they just don't know. I'm going with "secret" since they, very adamantly, do seem to know that they did not come from Central America.

    4. The article linked by Joe was written during the mass evacuation of child refugees from Central America ...before anything regarding the health and well-being of those kids could have been known on an individual basis. As such, it was obviously written to provide cover for the administration's immigration policy during the migration period. Also, the statement, "The narrative that foreigners bring disease has long been used to stir up anti-immigrant sentiment." ~ Rachel Pearson, Texas Observer Contributor, is pretty much equivalent to "If you are against Obama's policies you must be a racist". Typical lefty deflection tactics. The fact is that foreigners do bring disease. We've learned that throughout history Europeans have wiped out entire populations of people through the transmission of diseases. Fortunately, we have learned how to control and mitigate that sort of thing ....and then we forgot.

    5. How can such a "concerned" government (one that is flush enough to provide "universal health care" and "100 percent funded" vaccines. ~ Rachel Pearson, Texas Observer Contributor) allow other conditions in the country to deteriorate to the point that "good parents" across their nation round up their children and send them packing en masse on such a dangerous 1200-mile trek into uncertainty. Maybe that trip is like Disneyland compared to conditions in their own countries. Again, I'm calling "BS".

  9. That article, written almost 7 months ago, during the height of the influx of the migrant children, was obviously intended to provide support, or at least run interference, for the administration's policy regarding the dumping of these kids. It reads like a hit piece specifically meant to target Fox and its contributors as well as Republican politicians, or anyone else who might dare to speak out against the criminal negligence and abandonment of these kids ...not to mention their abuse by the administration as political footballs.

    But, I especially like this:

    "Governments concerned about health, and good parents investing in their kids, have made Central American kids better-vaccinated than Texan kids." ~Rachel Pearson, Texas Observer Contributor.

    These "concerned " governments and the so-called "good parents" sent thousands of their children, riding unaccompanied on top of chicken trains across hostile, lawless land in foreign countries to an unknown fate. Maybe the good parents, the ones with the "better-vaccinated" kids cared enough to keep their children home.

  10. wolfriverjoe

    ....

    All incoming immigrants?

    Including tourists? Or Americans coming back from abroad?



    Americans who traveled abroad used to get a litany of inoculations depending on where they were going. Did we stop doing that, too?

    Quote

    CDC is saying that one of those is probably the source.



    I'm sure that the flood of illegal immigrant "children" who recently arrived from Central America has not even crossed their minds.

    Quote

    Of course the right wing fringe is going nuts about it (I'm not implying that you are part of that). ODS is rampant. Michael Savage is blaming Obama and his immigration policies for the outbreak.

    Of course. :S



    Even the right wing fringe is right some of the time (look at Palin, Bachman, and Romney with respect to Russia). Also, any administration with a such an irresponsible immigration policy could be blamed. Don't need ODS to recognize dereliction (or worse).

  11. wolfriverjoe

    .....
    True to a certain degree, but there are some who couldn't be vaccinated (many because they were simply too young).......



    Good point WRT young age and medical conditions. But I don't know how "huge" that number would be.

    I am in favor of vaccination, almost to the point of mandating it. I'm especially in favor of returning to immigration policies that require screening and vaccination of ALL incoming immigrants ...like the olden days. It's a little disgusting that we have immigration policies that have allowed a disease that had largely been beaten in this country to again gain a foothold, and then try to place the blame on those who become infected.

  12. wolfriverjoe

    ***First, I think vaccinations are a very good thing.

    Second, did Ajazeera poll the other side of the aisle? If they did, they're not reporting it in spite of anything they say public and if they did not, then they're pushing a narrative. But that's OK, they've got a 1st Amendment right to do so. But as far as I'm concerned, the Bee Ess flag has been raised and not by me.



    Did you actually read the story?

    I don't see any "narrative" being pushed. Simply reporting the fact that a huge number of unvaccinated people have been exposed to a dangerous disease by an unvaccinated person. And those unvaccinated people are pissed.

    I'm not sure what the "other side of the aisle" would say.

    FIFY

  13. quade

    .....

    Cult has a very different definition in my book. That definition mostly revolves around the separation of the person from anyone who disagrees with the organization, breaking ties to things outside the organization, and generally a good deal of brainwashing, subtle or otherwise.



    Sounds like the Democrats. :D

    But, I wonder ...Does a previous measles infection, or even just an earlier exposure to measles, provide the same protection as vaccination? Some protection?

  18. Arvoitus

    ***You can go to a Windows terminal session, and, in the target directory, do a dir command, outputting to a file (dir > all.fil where all.fil is your target file).

    Then you can edit it appropriately, which, of course, can be painful, but Excel can help you

    Wendy P.



    You can Right Click->Mark->Paint->Right Click to skip the need for using a file as long as the print out is short enough to select.

    Thanks for the tip. Also, after the last Right Click, the white selection hi-light box will go out, but it has been copied to clipboard. Then just paste into notepad or whatever for editing, printing, etc. ...Cumbersome, but better than nothing. Not bad if you just want a list of files.

  20. kallend


    It's an interesting question of how to communicate the temperature, of say, a human body to an extra-galactic intelligence with whom we have established communication but about whose biochemistry we know nothing - maybe not carbon/water based (assuming we had mastered sub-space (TM) superluminal communication).



    Maybe define a scale with absolute zero at the lower end. We could try to establish a higher end by describing the resulting temperature of a closed, specifically defined system caused by some "universally" known quantum process acting within that system over a certain period of time. Then we could express human body temperature as a fraction of the difference between those points.