JAGdb

All good on this, it's a good discussion. It's hard putting it all back together 50+ years later. It just comes down to whether or not he made an amateur type of mistake. If so, that could be used as part of the profile when looking at a particular suspect. Anyway, here is the latest from Dr. Edwards....he's on the hunt for those Air America jumpers: https://www.goodreads.com/author_blog_posts/24695578-d-b-cooper-and-flight-305-last-name-unknown

That's a good point, I hadn't thought of that i.e. by leaving the air stairs in place, you left an entry point open for a possible law enforcement attack. What I was thinking of is related to the sequence of Tina retrieving the money and chutes. While I am not sure if this is agree upon as cannon, it has been discussed that Copper failed to keep human collateral when he allowed Tina to go get the back packs. The passengers and other stewardesses were already gone I believe. So he was alone by himself, which is a careless and fatal game over mistake. It's almost as bad a mistake as Cini putting the axe down for the pilots to pick it up and beat the snot out him. In theory, Tina and the pilots could have simply bugged out and left him on the plane for the police to take him down one way or another. Again, I am not sure if this has been 100% validated or not.

I like this profile you describe as well, the smart goon so to speak. It allows for someone who had experience and operational knowledge, which can explain why Cooper was generally calm and poised, and executed what appears to have been a relatively well thought out plan. But since he wasn't necessarily a classically trained spook, it also allows for someone who was capable of making a mistake, which he may have made while on the ground at Seatac. If I am not mistaken, Dr. Edwards last DB Cooper related good reads post indicated that he is also trying to drill into the identity of the people involved in Civil/Southern Air Transport and Air America programs.

Always enjoy Bruce, as well as these videos you are doing Ryan. I just find the narrative that the CIA/Deep State had to orchestrate this DB Copper Hijacking for the sole purpose to get more air port security a little silly, i.e. metal detectors in air ports or requiring more information from passengers to fly. Why on earth would they need to do this ? There were already so many hijackings, wouldn't those already be enough reason ? The government enacts laws and strong arms private industry all the time without the need for covert operations as trigger point.

I'm a little behind, so catching up on some of these episodes now... First let me say that Sergeant Major Mike Vining is a class act. Not only is he an explosives expert, but he also had sky diving background, you couldn't ask for more as a guest. He tended to drift off the topic of the bomb a little, Darren did a nice job trying to refocus him. He did leave me wanting a little more..in particular, I wish he spoke a little more on whether the description of the bomb indicated the presence of the blasting caps he kept bringing up or not. (I guess it didn't) I was a little shocked when he said he knew people who jumped out of 727s, I was hoping he was going to go into that a little more. How could he possibly have known ? Was he saying he was familiar with the Air America stuff, I thought that was all top secret ? Before I listened to this episode, (I actually listened to it 3 times), I was of the belief that: - The bomb was most likely fake - That Cooper had some military background in explosives After listening, based on what Sergeant Mike said about the size of the battery, the lack of "dynamite" wording on the sticks, and his comments on the seemingly amateur and senseless trigger mechanism of having to touch two wires together, I am still in "the bomb was fake" camp. But I no longer feel that Cooper had a background in explosives. I think it was a bluff 100% of the way, he only needed to convince the stewardesses and the brief case bomb may have been right out hollywood central casting for this purpose. I think Fly posted about the movie "Airport" from 1970 where there was a brief case bomb, maybe that was an inspiration? On a side note, was the question of whether he was suicidal or not and how that is tied to the question of the bomb being real or fake. I don't necessarily think one implies the other. While he did say that he wouldn't be taken alive, this could have been a bluff as well. But even if it was not, I don't get the vibe that he was willing to take everyone with him. Maybe he had a pistol in the bag or even the brief case that he would have used to go down swinging so to speak. Anyway, all conjecture and subjective on my part. Question to Oldmiss, were any of the other copy cats suicidal or willing to actually take the plane and the passengers out if they didn't get their money ?

Great points, I love the Midwest dust bowl angle and Johnny Cash suggestion is good one.

For tongue and cheek, I'll throw out Leaving on Jet Plane by John Denver.... But as far as what music he listened to, it was a little tougher than I thought. I was trying to figure out what music he was listening to as he was coming of age. For me, I think I was set in my musical ways or taste by my late 20s. If he was born roughly between 1920 and 1930, that puts him in his mid late 20s roughly between 1945 to 1955ish time frame. So that kind of spans a dramatic shift in music from the end of the big band and crooner era into the early rock and roll era. In the end, I am going to go with the style of music that was more popular when he was younger man. I think I can kind of see him listening to some "Old Blue Eyes"....I'm going with Sinatra. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised at all if before he left for "the job", he dropped the needle on a little "My Way" ! He certainly did this job his way.... By the way, this is all in good fun, I know he was a criminal and I don't mean to romanticize him like a hero or something. Maybe some day we will find out just who he was !!!

This is a fun question and it requires a little bit of thought...

No apology necessary, that's a great update and thanks for sharing !!! I think it is an important part of the suspect profile puzzle !

Thanks for the response Cola. The reason the Benzedrine anecdote is interesting to me: 1) I think it is part of the pilot/military/aviation discussion. Military personnel, particularly pilots were issued Benzedrine for long missions. By 1971 I understand that amphetamines were common knowledge and in use among the public, but I still think if he did indeed offer them that it has it's root in mission based preparedness from prior military/aviation experience. 2) From a strategic aspect, Cooper brought it up for one of two reasons: - To really be used as an aid to the long flight to Mexico. Or - As a way to make everyone think they were in it for the long haul while he planned to exit the plane as quickly as possible and give himself a better chance at getting away. I did a little bit of digging, just to kind of close the loop, found this article from Bruce back in 2013 where he says: " According to Tosaw and Gray, Cooper also brought several tablets of Benzedrine to keep the crew alert." https://themountainnewswa.net/2013/02/06/the-hunt-for-db-cooper-who-was-cooper-what-is-known/ In the Vortex, Gray has been a somewhat well respected source. I believe he had cooperation from the FBI for his book and access to the FBI files and evidence. So he must have got it from this access. Tosaw was FBI, so he had access to everything. But as you mentioned, other than a news article, it is nowhere in the FBI files that have been released yet. To your point, how could it not be ? If it was part of any of the stewardess testimony, it should be all over that portion of FBI files.

Full disclosure, I have no background in the discipline of Stylometry. But my immediate take on this topic is that the sample size is too small. Could comparing one small letter be enough to draw the conclusions that were being made? Questions popping into my head like if you took 100 or 1000 other comparable sized control letters and compared them to the same group of Barb's letters, would you get any other similar results i.e. 97% certainty. Other questions I have are more generic to Stylometry and false positive statistics? How does it compare to a DNA match which is typically 99% accurate ? What are the odds of two people writing in a similar way both structurally and using a similar vocabulary catalog ? I think more work needs to be done to validate the initial test. One of the things I missed in the Youtube video, was how or why Barb Dayton became the target of the Stylometry exercise in the first place. I am going to go back and watch it again.

Ryan, good discussion on Youtube the other day regarding whether or not Cooper was a pilot, Pat had some very insightful points in favor, Jersey girls brings it ! (couldn't really hear the lady from New Zealand very well). You guys touched on the fact that he seemed to not realize that flying dirty would limit the range of the air craft and make a non stop flight to Mexico impossible. This is what has always given me some pause as well, if he was a pilot with any substantial experience, you would think he should have known that. I am in the camp that he just wanted to get the plane flying south also, and may not have really cared about ever getting to Mexico. However, I am still not sure this dismisses him not anticipating that he might get called out on his request for a non stop flight to Mexico. Another less frequent item brought up by Pat I believe was the Benzedrine. I may have asked this before, but what is the origin of this ? Was it in the FBI files or did it come from Tosaw or Grey ? Unrelated to the pilot question, you guys also touched on one of his biggest blunders that could have done him in. That being where he seems to have allowed for an opportunity for everyone to bug out and leave him on the plane by himself at Seatac. As well as he seems to have planned out the "job", he wasn't perfect...but as they say, sometimes it's better to be lucky. When I think about this, I wonder would Braden have made that mistake ? BTW, here is the latest from Dr. Edwards in case folks haven't seen it yet: https://www.goodreads.com/author_blog_posts/24580716-d-b-cooper-and-flight-305-lou-rucker He seems to be trying to get some of the names and details for the people that were jumping out of the 727s for Air America/Southern Air Transport. There was a blurb in the last FBI doc which indicates that the FBI was looking into a tip for someone who fit the hijacker's description and was part of these jumps: [Redacted] has close associate known to [redacted] (LNU) [Last Name Unknown] of Ft. Hood, Texas, [redacted] at same time in nineteen sixty-four. [Redacted] made numerous sport jumps from rear of military equivalent to Norjak plane [Boeing 727-51]. Jumps were made from rear door in exactly same manner as unsub [unidentified subject] in instant matter. Also made numerous night jumps. [Redacted] described [redacted, four letters] (LNU) as being white male, olive complexion, five feet eleven inches, one seventy-five lbs., well educated, chain smoker, age [redacted], excellent sky diver from mid west. ... [Redacted] Portland, Oregon at telephone number [redacted] was shown composite of unsub [unidentified subject] and feels it would bear remarkable likeness to [redacted, four letters] (LNU) after having aged six or seven years.”

My post is pure speculation and wishful thinking based on the article from the Sun: https://www.the-sun.com/news/10410179/db-cooper-fbi-investigating-dna-richard-mccoy/ There is nothing official that the FBI has new DNA.

Just my two cents, but in last year or so, perhaps it was in the interview he did with Bruce, Larry Carr had cast a lot of doubt on the FBI's original partial DNA that they had derived back in the early 2000s. (even though we know that they were using it for quite some time to eliminate some suspects) This leads me to believe that they have recently conducted new DNA testing, whether it be on the shroud lines, the tie spindle, perhaps the hair slide, or something else and they now have a much better result, perhaps a full profile ? In addition, I wonder if they were able to compare the new DNA result to the older partial and perhaps determine if it is congruent or not ? That would be really interesting... Based on the recent news that McCoy's son has given a sample, I guess this implies that they never tested McCoy's DNA against the original partial DNA profile they had back in the early 2000s ?

The issue with this, and it goes back to the Gryder videos, is that there was nothing offered up that was even mildly convincing enough to standup under basic scrutiny. When you say "my father was DB Cooper" and offer nothing else, it feels more like we are in grainy big foot or flying saucer video territory. The parachute is in direct conflict with the vortex's best information on it. They offered nothing regarding the actual night of the hijacking i.e. details about where and when he jumped, what the actual "plan" was, how he got out of wherever he landed, how the money was lost, some of these answers should be able to explain the Tena Bar find. I suppose we will have to wait and see how it plays out.