CrazyL

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You could land off and do whatever the hell you want... 15 minute walk would be the price to pay but freedom is priceless

Even better , how about land in a designatd landing area for crazies like me. The pattern was totally clear, it was the right and perfect airspace for the approach to landing, in the 'anything goes area' mandated by the dz policies.

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1989., they haven't been invented a law against my way...
and I've made 20% of $2.5M.
- at the time, there wasn't anybody for me to discuss with...
...but there is a law today.

I can't guess why Larry is interested in anybody's opignion
but there's no chance WE are of ANY help to him...
'cause vr not there

so why, Oh why, Larry?.. are you asking us?

Is there code in your post? Can you please guess why Larry is interested. What is 'cause vr not here' good you made some money, me too. Got a dz that I can have my freedom to skydive hard?

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As an avid aggressive hookturner for over 15 years i've been good at hookturns. Been grounded for doing hookturns years ago. Probably saved my life and/or medical expenses. Been banned at 4 dz's the reasonfor each dz is hookturns. 2nd dz I was banned at called and invited me to their 1st ever pond swoop meet 3 years after being banned, won a canopy, sweet, had my freedom back, sweet. 3rd dz I was banned at had swoop week 8 years later, could'nt go 'cause i'm banned for life for hookturns 8 years ago. The latest dz this past June the dzm called me and said 'so, tell me about your little hookturn over the pond' ? Couple of minutes later it's 'your not welcomed at this dz anymore'. So, what are these dz's condoning here? So what should I do, stop doing 'little hookturns over the swoop pond'? stop doing hookturns? I'm so dang addicted to the hookturn, should I stop skydiving? Should I hop on the banned wagon and condone the banning of hookturns and the people that do them? I have yet to cause injury or death to anyone from doing hookturns and/or skydiving over 6,000 times. Should I only jump at dz's that fully understand that skydiving may cause serious injury or death? What about the waiver, I signed it, medical insurance, got it and 4 other types of insurance. Also got 6 canopies that are excellent technological advancements so I can enjoy hookturns when I skydive. What to do...

The way I see it, if a problem arises with one person/DZ, it's a fluke, shit happens. But when you describe being banned from 4 DZs due to hook turns, it's no longer a fluke, it's a trend. The common theme in the story is you, so instead of casting blame on the DZs that banned you, might be better to figure out exactly why you are being banned from so many places and address the issue in a constructive manner.

Oh, and about this:

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I have yet to cause injury or death to anyone from doing hookturns and/or skydiving over 6,000 times.

I bet Danny Page could have said something similar too. See how well that worked out. Jump numbers don't mean you're infallable and they won't save you.

1st dz was in 1993, second in 1996, 3rd in 2000, 4th in 2008. trend? same problem, hookturns. i realize the reason. i'm addicted and need help that's why i'm here for you to bash me. Danny Page you arrogant punk RIP. How the hell did I get crap for what Danny did? peregrinrose clean up your deal. Don't blame me for your 's or Danny's mistakes.

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Hey CrazyL, are you the same Crazy Larry who likes to wear colorful clothing?

That would probally be the same one!

Hey lary you know you are welcomed here at SDD. You have lots of friens here

Thanks, I know that's right! No haters there! I'll be back soon enough. For every 2 weekends i'm not jumping here in SoCal can buy me a trip and a good time at your dz. Already looking at tickets for the next trip. $304 rt,

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Your screen name may hold a clue to your being banned.

Hi Chuck, long time no see, remember at your dz when all the people would go out on the tarmac and I would do 180's up high and dive at them , dumbasses they could've been killed. They enjoyed it that's why they went there. Me too. The first part of my screen name was earned for doing hookturns back in 1992, where were you?

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Just curious, what degree of hook turns are you doing? Just going by jump numbers I'm going to assume 270 or greater..?

That was a little one, a 270 because I was seeing the congestion in the main landing area and did'nt want any part of it, pond was clear I did'nt want to fly over anything I did'nt want to land on. Did'nt fly over the police and their cars. Would not have landed there had there been an anouncemnt to not land there period.

Yep, I liked it there.

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'Right time and place' happened at the last dz. There was a fatality in the landing area. I came no closer than 200' to the fatality. DZM had alot on his plate.

You don't think this speaks loudly for less-than-rational judgement?

Uh, about speaking loudly. There was and has been non of that. And will not be tolerated. Do you think that the dz should be sending airplanes up when there is a fatality in the landing area that had been there for over 3 hours? They put the crime scene tape up around the fella. I never crossed that line , nor came close enough to that line to cross it. But I heard later that day as homie is into his 5th hour in the sweltering heat under a tarp in the landing area with a crime scene tape marking his area, a jumper landed so close to the crime scene tape that he tripped and fell right through it the tape and into the crime scene area. He did not get banned like I did. I never heard any announcemnts prior to my jump that any other landing area had been closed. A crime scene tape, it's pretty obvious that you must heed that space and don't even go there. So I did'nt. After I had landed they were making announcements and later that day a jumper actually crossed the line? Are you kidding me?

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Hey CrazyL, are you the same Crazy Larry who likes to wear colorful clothing?

That would probally be the same one!

Hey lary you know you are welcomed here at SDD. You have lots of friens here

If that's the case, then his landing approaches are fine unless he really did go crazy.

You are correct!!! His landing are fine/safe for him!!! His type of landing can be dangeroius if performed by the wrong person. But he is very safe while performing his landings! He's like me in the way that he will not take someones shit if he dose not desearve it!!!!

Yes it's me. in trouble at a dz for some dumbass reason I feel I don't desreve. Kept my mouth shut for the most part about this. People in the know no. But now it's been over 90 days, the dzm,dzo, chief instructor/ s&ta have yet to email me back or call me back, These guys are f'n professionals.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears from your posts that you hookturned without first checking with the DZO on what the rules are. Each DZ is different. The rules have tightened up a lot in some places after the Dublin, GA debacle last year.

Wrong, your so wrong. That morning the chief instructor at the school and I had a talk about the 'new' landing area arrangement. A 3rd of the landing area had been fenced off and is no longer used by the dz. New drawings of the layout were posted. He showed me. I did as he ask and helped 'spread the word' The pond area is still 'anything goes'. I've got a few years at this dz. got the rules down pretty good, and abide by them.

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You wouldn't be banned for life if you followed the rules. (GASP, OH NO!! FOLLOWING THE RULES?!!!!)

It doesn't sound like hook turning is banning you. Hook turning when the DZO doesn't want you to or when/where it isn't appropriate is getting you banned. There are a few places that either used to ban or have banned hook turns in general because they're killing people.

Plenty of opportunity to do high performance landings. But hooking it becaue you HAVE TO is the wrong answer.

Your sarcastic right?

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You can always open your own DZ and make rules you like.

so close to that it aint even funny

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I think you're way over-engineering this. (But I loved the phrase "banned wagon" ). As Sparky said, it's the DZO's crib. What higher-risk jumpers seem to forget, when they bitch about conservative DZO's, is that when there's a fatality, it's not just on the jumper who goes in, it's also on the DZO that has to deal with the aftermath. And that aftermath can be considerable: bad press, lawsuits, trouble with the local cops & govt, lawsuits, hostility from the neighbors, lawsuits. Of course you have the right to choose your own risk level, as we all do. But the DZO also has the right to choose how much risk HE is willing to take that HE will have to deal with a fatality. It's really that simple.

Perris has had fatalities since when Sparky, the 70's. That dz is rock'n. And the guy that bounced the day I got banned, I was paying him my respects as an airman. He got a high fly by from me. He was an off duty cop. Tell me about local cops, there were a bunch there and at his funeral. The dead guy and me have something in common, we're both war vets, both decorated, both hookturners, both play in the anything goes area of the dz. Personally I think the guy took the ' anything goes' area a bit too far. And it really is about 'risk management' is'nt it. Dz's deal with fatalities so do race tracks and several other sports facilities.

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HMMMM, I think there may be some other important information missing in your history description. Perhaps there is more to this story than just simple hookturns? From your description, I am thinking the old phrase "right time and place" might apply as well as "not only a danger to himself but to those around him" to describe why you've been banned at said DZs. Am I off or do you care to elaborate further?

Yes, more info on this latest banning in June. Per the conversation with the dzm, 1st thing he said of importance besides asking if he was talking to (add my name) 'tell me about your little hookturn over the pond' I ask him ' what do you want to know?' he said why did you do it. I said ' the area was clear so I did like the four previous jumps that morning and swooped the pond. he says 'I know you shot video, don't you know he's got two kids' then he accused me of posting such video on the internet. That made me pretty mad. What an insult. I probably would've never thought of posting any video of dead people or people dying on the internet. I thought he was a sick f---k-r for even saying such crap. Then I was told that i'm no longer welcome at his dz. This dzm had also recently had a heart attack and doctors orders he could not jump that day. Prior to that he and his now ex-wife got a divorce. He needed to take the shit out on somebody. The week prior to this hookturn/ fatality that were really unrelated the dzm's cronies were calling me to shoot their 6 way meet. I was already on a team. By friday they had me going with 3 teams, I shot 2. The week prior to that the dzo called me and ask for my help in getting the goods for his advertised foam party. Since I work in Hollywood he thought I was the man for this. I hooked him up with the right people and he failed. I had the deal down from just over $5,000 to just over $2000 and he could trade out some for tandems. He choked and blamed me. I was not even gettiing a thing out of this deal. Just wasted my time. There you go, the facts for 3 weeks prior to me being banned. There really is'nt any more facts prior to and up to the banning of me at this dz.

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You can always open your own DZ and make rules you like.

I did abide by the rules. At this dz there is an ' anything goes' rule over the pond area. I followed the rules. The rest of the rules from the FAA, I followed to the T. The dz policies and rules, I followed them too. The BSR's I broke one. In the BSR's I could'nt find anywhere in there that a jumper should 'loosen' their chest strap while skydiving. I did loosen my chest strap for hookturning and swooping.

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Bro, i am more interested in a topic named something like: "Dropzones that banned Crazy Larry" :)

hehehe me too. Is the Ranch on the list?

Thanks I actually did know that. Tony is not the designer Hank was. Tony is not the maker. The pins are made overseas somewhere there is cheap enough labor. Tony is the supplier. Were some early curved pin design consist of like 1/8 in. dia. steel wire and soldered to close the ring? Did they wrap part of the pin with wire and solder or was that just the straight pins on some of Hanks rigs?

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It's as safe as you make it...same as EVERY OTHER dz. If I want to be unsafe at Davis or Monterey or anywhere else in California I can. If I want to be safe at those places, again, I can.

Tell me one thing that happens there that jeopardizes your safety that does not have to do with human error?

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This goes for hookturns too right? It's as safe as you make it. Human error is usually the main cause of death in skydiving not hookturns.

I'm surely interested in Pro's and Con's of the M.A.R.D. but only know about 'here say' no real proof. So help me out here, here's a scenario that i 'heard' about, jumper cutaway spiraling main, reserve is static lined or M.A.R.D., jumper then rolls up in the reserve bridle enough to stop the reserve freebag from leaving the container, as jumper is rolled back out of the bridle the reserve canopy deploys and saves their life. Is this possible? Pro? Con?

Design problem. Oops' Last time I tried to convey design problems about aerodyne gear to aerodyne they ended up telling me to watch what I say about their gear. So I should be careful what I say about their gear. Jump something else.

google hookturn. A 'hookturn' usually has a resulting 'swoop'. Both terms 'hookturn and swoop' are specialized terms used for specialized tricks that some skydivers perform. Hookturns have not killed any skydivers yet. It's the misjudgement of the canopy pilots altitude and recovery from such radical maneuvers close to the ground. If you don't know what a hookturn is yet then you probably won't be banned for doing a hookturn. In the U.K. a news agency reported about a skydiver doing a 'banned flip'. Even though I believe I know what the reporters are trying to convey I still had never heard the term 'flip' used among skydivers to convey 'hookturn ' till I read the news report. A hookturn may be performed with any single control input or a combination of control inputs to the canopy. If done too low to the ground a jumper could end up seriously injured or dead. The most deaths in skydiving for close to 20 years now has been the result of a misjudged hookturn. Sure skydivers have come up with other ways to seriously injure and/or kill themselves, but the result of a hookturn done to low to recover prior to inheriting the earth has been the most major killer of skydivers.

'Right time and place' happened at the last dz. There was a fatality in the landing area. I came no closer than 200' to the fatality. DZM had alot on his plate. The 1st dz, c;early for doing hookturns and hookturns only. Not sure they had ever seen a hookturn, but they knew they did'nt like them. As a skydiver your phrase ' not only a danger to himself/herself but to those around him/her' would apply to every jumper would'nt it. Skydiving is dangerous. People freefall into things like homie did. He bounced closer to the airplanes and cars and people than I came to him, the airplanes, the cars, the people. Jumpers run into other jumpers. Just 2 weekends ago I saw 3 canopies collied, all 3 jumpers were still above the ground High enough to get jacked, no one got grounded or banned. A jumper with 200 or so jumps landed opposite the landing pattern, would've been no big deal had his lines not caught my buddies face and ripping some of my buddies face off. A TM at the last dz I got banned at flew so close to the main packing area and crashed in a student breaking the students ankle, no grounding, no banning. The next post i'll elaborate on the other dz's. so yes , you are well, a little bit on but pretty far off.

As an avid aggressive hookturner for over 15 years i've been good at hookturns. Been grounded for doing hookturns years ago. Probably saved my life and/or medical expenses. Been banned at 4 dz's the reasonfor each dz is hookturns. 2nd dz I was banned at called and invited me to their 1st ever pond swoop meet 3 years after being banned, won a canopy, sweet, had my freedom back, sweet. 3rd dz I was banned at had swoop week 8 years later, could'nt go 'cause i'm banned for life for hookturns 8 years ago. The latest dz this past June the dzm called me and said 'so, tell me about your little hookturn over the pond' ? Couple of minutes later it's 'your not welcomed at this dz anymore'. So, what are these dz's condoning here? So what should I do, stop doing 'little hookturns over the swoop pond'? stop doing hookturns? I'm so dang addicted to the hookturn, should I stop skydiving? Should I hop on the banned wagon and condone the banning of hookturns and the people that do them? I have yet to cause injury or death to anyone from doing hookturns and/or skydiving over 6,000 times. Should I only jump at dz's that fully understand that skydiving may cause serious injury or death? What about the waiver, I signed it, medical insurance, got it and 4 other types of insurance. Also got 6 canopies that are excellent technological advancements so I can enjoy hookturns when I skydive. What to do...

Recently I was banned from a turbine dz with a swoop pond for doing a 'little hookturn over the pond'. I want to know before I go to a dz if i'm banned or not.

Call the maker. Tony D. at Square1 in Perris, Ca.