Joellercoaster

Totally be like Mike. DZOs love to tell us when the weather turns that we're not buying jumps, we're buying plane rides. You're not wasting their time, you're paying for it. You're not wasting your own, you're finding something important about yourself, one way or another. Good luck and keep trying until you don't feel like you're learning anything. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Excuse me for selectively editing out things from your post. But: a Storm 210 is still considered by Performance Designs to be a canopy for Advanced pilots at that weight. The OP has a few dozen jumps. In five months he (or she) is going to have some more jumps. But do you think in that time enough will have been made to become an "advanced" canopy pilot? It would nominally be a less inappropriate choice for a new jumper, but can you recommend it in good conscience? Unless you decide that everyone over a hundred jumps or so is "advanced" (and I'd love to hear what PD have to say about that) then neither of them is really OK. To the OP: I have no positive recommendation here, and I'm not your instructor or the CSPA. But seriously, don't get the 190. I have a general principle I try to apply to skydiving advice I get from people more experienced than myself (of whom there are many, with may different opinions): if two sources disagree, pick the more conservative one. It has not kept me 100% safe or even 100% uninjured, but it's done all right. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Location matters a lot - where are you? There are oldskoolers around who sometimes teach skysurf to interested locals, but there is little (mostly no) demand, so you kind of need to know who to ask in your area. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

This actually sounds good to me. I loved the Crossfires I've borrowed from people at different times, but I did keep wishing they opened a little quicker Will be watching for the arrival of the Crossfire3 closely! -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

With due respect to the organisers involved, this has nothing to do with jumpsuits. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

I have owned several brands, and from those would happily recommend (on the criteria you mention and others): Parasport Tony Nearly all of my jumps have been 4way and 8way. Unless you are a lightweight, you might find that your comp suit is not the best option for bigway - they tend to shift your range towards fast-fall, and my limited experience with bigways suggests that you want to be able to put the brakes on hard, sometimes (I keep 3 FS suits around. I could probably get away with two but one of them has sentimental value.) -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Wait, what?! I never heard that part of the story. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

To the OP: If you're moving to the UK and want to skydive, here is the best advice I can give you: Don't mention it on DZ.com. A crowd of old people (some of whom jump here, most of whom don't) will immediately pile into your thread and make it all about them, like all the other threads they have destroyed in the past. They'll fill your thread with shit. Shit that has nothing to do with your questions and doesn't affect you, including but not limited to: - How rude the DZOs used to be when they used to jump in the 90s - That the UK is a nanny state, unlike the freedom-loving Americas - That the FS1 requirement is a scam of some kind - That 55-year-olds are/are not amazing skydivers - That the BPA is an old-boys' club of stuffy blazer types - That Spain is awesome, like the freedom-loving Americas A similar-sized group of Brits will then jump in and counter these points. Then the original crew will come back in. And so on. Round and round. This will be allowed to happen not because the UK is a bad place to jump (it is not), but principally because General Skydiving Discussion (like Safety and Training) is effectively unmoderated, and also because at least one of the regular participants is a moderator anyway. Nothing new will be said - all these threads have been done before, and it's not really about the thread, it's about the "participants". The point is, your question and its useful answers (there will be some in there somewhere!) will be totally drowned out by the sound, as the song goes, of old men grinding axes. Now that you know how dz.com works, you can apply this knowledge to such fascinating topics as: - Choosing a main canopy (answer: Jump a Racer!) - Small-format cameras (oppression vs suicide!) - Learning to swoop (my Katana is awesome! Did I mention I jump a Katana?) - DZ Cooper (screeeeeeeeeeeeeeekkhkhhhhhhNO CARRIER) You're welcome. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

We're talking about the same thing - and in retrospect, I realise that my way of saying it is jargon-heavy and less useful to a beginner. So: for the non-4-way-obsessed, the "hill" is RW-speak for the time when you are travelling partly in the same direction as the plane, while your velocity changes (due to friction and gravity) from horizontal to vertical. Faster-falling groups are faster-falling because they have less air resistance. Friction due to air resistance is what dissipates forward speed, so freefly groups travel further in the direction the plane is going before they are completely vertical. This is why we put them out after slower-falling groups: to ensure that groups are separated by as much horizontal space as possible. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Backfly can range between the speeds of belly and sit depending on what they're doing, and falls roughly vertically - to be honest the question has never come up, but I'd put them out between belly and freefly groups. The "large to small" part comes naturally, since I don't think I've ever seen a dedicated flat-fly group larger than two. Keep in mind that the (modern) exit order thing is mostly based on the group's behaviour on the hill; I would guess that backfliers aren't in the super fast-fall backfly of the recovery position on exit. I guess this means treat them as a belly group, but put them out at the end of the belly section of the load just in case? -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

It would, but: once he was out of the plane, there's not a lot the SAG could have done about him not wearing a rig anyway The simplest explanation for everything we know at the moment (including his own statements and those of people who were there) is that he jumped without a rig. The practice touch was a joke, and even at the time I thought it was funny. None of the conspiracy theorists have managed to come up with a real reason for why he might actually have worn one. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

This. I do it at idle moments during tunnel sessions, never realised people might freak out about it and accuse me of being up to no good. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

You know? I'm not even 100% sure. I think was a lot of things... even maintaining the level we were at was really expensive. The competitions themselves started to feel samey - training jumps are still great but the events themselves didn't thrill me any more. The comps scene also just... I dunno. Some great people but I fell out of love. Comps are a bit of a small pond as well. The gossip, the horse trading, the coverage, the big fish and the (necessary) politics. All those things were exciting for a while and no longer are, plus a couple negative personal experiences in there. I had eight good years though! And in the UK, I would totally encourage someone to take it up. The support for new players is very strong, and the opportunities for them to level up year on year are great. Just because I got jaded doesn't make it less awesome. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

So I am not the person you were asking, but I basically did nothing but 4- and 8-way from jump 100 or so until jump 1100. Training, competition, training, competition... The last couple of years I did almost exclusively 4-way with the same three other people, mostly training for UK nationals. Now I have lost the desire to compete completely, but I still love getting up and doing a fast, tricky 4-way jump more than anything. The understanding and communication you get from knowing the way your other friends fly so intimately is still, to me, one of my very favourite parts of skydiving. But our team is all doing different things now. 4-way with strong strangers is also pretty great. Actually 4-way with whoever is still awesome. Not wanting to compete any more is a sizeable problem though in the search for hot 4-way skydives. I am having a period of soul-searching now where I figure out other kinds of jumps that could be good. Fortunately? It's skydiving. It's full of interesting disciplines that have deep knowledge to acquire over many jumps and years, I know I just need to pick one and I'll never get bored in my one short life. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

I looked up at a guy from the ground, as he looked at a Eurofighter from directly above - while under canopy. We definitely did not know he was coming (and there were people in freefall above). Dunno if he knew about us either, pretty sure not. Not the incident you're talking about for sure but... faaaark. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

It's apparently a complete redesign. And from what I hear, it's likely to be two canopies... one aimed at the Stiletto-ish end and one at the Katana-ish end of the market. I guess the Katana is also a poor choice for learning high-performance landings on though, right? -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Your friend will be fine with some more jumps, I am confident! Jumpsuits do change a lot, but you hopefully won't go from "so slow it's a problem" to "so fast it's a problem" unless the first suit you buy is really baggy and the second one is made entirely of Spandex. Hang in there, friend of gunsmokex -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Oh, I forgot. Before you come, join the London Skydivers group on Facebook. We get between 10 and 60 people to the monthly pub night, and it's a good source of lifts, reserve repacks, gear, advice (good and bad), occasional debauchery and general bullshit. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

It's definitely a thing. The military is a prevalant force in a few countries' skydiving scenes, and it definitely has an effect on customer relations there (the UK is definitely included). It's funny watching retired-officer DZOs barking at random civilian sport jumpers to do something and being told, "actually, I'm going to go over here and eat this sandwich." (Not all DZOs here are ex-military, and of course not all ex-military DZOs are dicks about it. I have a list ) -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

I realise that the plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence", but my twists stopped when I bought mine! I'm not saying it opens on heading very often either, but it has never wound up. (My only chop was massive twists from a Pilot 132. True story ) -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

I am fine with it. I have no commercial interest, I hold no instructor ratings, I coach for free, I no longer even compete. I'm a fun jumper. The BPA has its problems. The USPA has its problems. Every sporting organisation I've ever been a part of has had its problems. The BPA is no better or worse than the rest of them, and I have seen many. I am Australian, but love jumping in the UK. Despite the fact that British skydivers (here and expat) do love to moan -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

This sounds like part of your problem may be sensory overload. Although this will pass with more jumps, one thing to try in the meantime might be drilling and visualisation. Practice looking at your alti set to different heights and thinking about what it means for your skydive. Do this a lot. In particular, practice looking at it at your "lock on" height and really noticing, thinking, it's time to get ready to pull. Then change it to pull height and really burn that into your mind thinking, it's time time to pull. The number is not so important, but what you need to do in response is. The training altimeter might be just the thing. Also, what keithbar said. Less self-beating-up, more horse-getting-back-on. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

I think that's fine, if you apply it only to yourself. But your feelings about what is "accomplishment" are, if I may say so, not useful to the experiences of others. Some people don't give a shit about what other people think is "adventurous". Some people want to be good. I know a few people who just fly in the tunnel (even though some have skydived). Some with hundreds of hours of tunnel time. I know a lot of other people who spend way more time in the tunnel than they do in freefall (including me). Most of those people make me look like a bumbling amateur in the tunnel and in the air. They fly... and they are happy because of their great level of skill. According to you, those people are doing it wrong. I'm sure they'll totally change their minds though when you point that out. No... you really don't. That's great, if it makes you happy. It has nothing to do with anything though. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

No offence to you, but you have no idea what you are talking about. Especially in this thread... the OP is proposing to do something fairly unusual (actually not even that unusual, let's say "modern" instead) and you are wheeling out the tired oldskool skydiver cliches. If you want to actually get good at a skydiving discipline nowadays, the tunnel is where you do it. Some people decide to get good first, and skip the thing you and I did where we spend a hundred jumps doing low-quality skydives first Original poster: RMK does raise a point - for that money, you *could* go and travel and do a bunch of jumps. But clearly you know this, because it is bleeding obvious. In ten hours in the tunnel, you could: Potentially get to a decent standard head up. Potentially get to head-down if you push hard and don't polish much along the way. Potentially learn to do 4-way to a medal-winning standard in Rookie class (don't sweat the exits issue too hard, I've seen national Rookie champions learn one exit). Whatever you do, get a quality coach, preferably one in the discipline you want. Or you could have a go at all of these things with a tunnel coach, get good at none of them, but be a super confident flyer in freefall for your jump numbers. Then go and have some really good jumps when you do get back in the "real" air. But be aware that your freefall skills will be stronger than people with hundreds of jumps, and people might still be stuck in the "jump numbers" vein when you're trying to get on skydiver. No biggie. Oh, and there is a (small but non-zero) problem people sometimes have with a lot of tunnel time, which is to mistake how much canopy flight needs attention. Be aware of it, and know your limitations - your skills will be out of balance that way. Again, not a huge deal as long as you know it's coming. Also let us know what you end up doing and keep us posted! -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Other people have given good advice about landing and canopies and such. About the packing issue, there may simply not be a fix, short of flat-packing on a huge table. A good friend of mine, less damaged than you but with very bad knees, eventually gave up on the idea of packing - he needed to demonstrate that he could do it for his B certificate here, but resigned himself to paying for packers after that. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?