Chaucer

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Yeah, that's the thing about this case is that Cooper seemed to know some things, but not others. He seemed to have it all worked out and then other times seemed to be making it up on the fly. Like, I said, it's just my sense that he was "cramming". You could be right.

I couldn't disagree stronger. What strikes me more than anything is the incongruence in his knowledge. He knew the flight could make it the 2,000 miles to Mexico City, but didn't realize the stairs and landing gear down would impact it's performance. He knew enough to check the packing cards, but didn't know or didn't care that the chutes didn't actually come from McChord like he had anticipated. Moreover, he didn't bother to bring his own gear on the flight. He claimed to know where the oxygen tanks were, and the re-feuling procedures, but didn't know how to lower the airstairs which was a very elementary thing to do. That doesn't even get into whether he wanted 2 chutes originally and changed his mind or wanted the airstairs down at takeoff or after takeoff. The point is that, it seems to me, that Cooper apparent holes in his knowledge is indicative of someone who tried to plan this with little prior knowledge and little planning time. I don't think he had extensive knowledge of aviation, the 727, parachutes, or skydiving. Rather, I think he's guy who planned this in less than two weeks and tried cobble together a coherent plan on the fly. I have 25+ years in education, and to me, this screams a guy who crammed for an exam rather than someone who actually knew the material. However, for Cooper, his plan was successful, and as a result, it makes him look like as an expert or a genius, when I think it's more likely that he was just lucky.

The peculiar thing is that Gunther never mentions the letters he received years earlier from someone claiming to actually BE DB Cooper. My question is why? Wouldn't that be pertinent information to share with the FBI?

Would you be nice to have you come on out, G. I'll buy you a beer!

This is all well and good, but you avoided the question. You said you felt that the flight path and drop zone were dead issues that aren't worthy of discussion or research because, to use your phrase, "zooming in" on them won't solve the case. But my question was, what topics ARE worthy of discussion and research, in your opinion? What aspects of the case will solve it by "zooming in" on them?

Then what topics are worthy of discussion and research? His tie? His briefcase? His drink? His parachute choice? The varied and differing sketches? The Tena Bar money find? Does zooming in on any of those things bring us closer to identifying Cooper? Do those things have any more or less value than the flight path and when and where Cooper jumped? How is is even possible to quantify that? I appreciate you trying to bury topics you have no interest in. That's fair. You don't have to care. But you're suggesting that researching and discussing them have no value, but does researching and discussing ANYTHING Cooper related have any value at this point?

NWA was not involved in tracking the aircraft or plotting the flight path. Flight 305 was being tracked on civilian radar AND the USAF's Semi-Automatic Ground Radar (SAGE) which was the most sophisticated radar of that time. Flight 305 was also being followed by two Delta Dart interceptor jets that can be guided by SAGE to their target. I would suspect that the request for the radar data was made sometime on the 25th to the USAF, and it was supplied to Major Spangler the next day. Of course, the flight path of the aircraft was never really questioned at the time. Everyone - including the crew - knew that it was flying Victor 23. Rather, the urgent concern of the day was Cooper's drop zone which was calculated by both Major Spanger and Paul Soderlind.

So, if this was a standard bank robbery, you don't think it's important to investigate what route the robber took when he fled the bank in the getaway car or where he ditched the car and fled on foot? Also, what moves the needle? What gets us closer to identifying Cooper? There's little to know physical evidence. There's little to no DNA. There's virtually no chance anyone "solves" this case without either of those things. Am I wasting my time discussing the flight path and drop zone more than any of the other discussions on here?

Never once have I ever claimed I possessed any specialized "aeronautical knowledge". Rather, you're the one nailing your resume on every church door you can find.

For all your "aviation knowledge", you sure get a lot of things wrong. SAGE was FAR more accurate than civilian radar, and civilian radar did not have any access to the SAGE infrastructure. Civilian radar didn't even use GEOREF in their radar data. Keep saying inaccurate, off the wall stuff though. It's fun!

Spangler told me that he received the flight path data and map from the SAGE blockhouse either the day after the hijacking or the following day. In speaking with Len Camp, a senior director at NORAD, he said the radar data would have been printed out, and the coordinates and time stamps plotted on the map. It would not have required a great deal of time - especially as the SAGE unit trained in this type of thing all the time.

As you know, I've spoken with both of these gentlemen at length. It's not odd because there was no need for them to do so. There were people far more qualified in the SAGE blockhouse at McChord who had already used the radar data to calculate an accurate flight path. They were both supplied with the flight path information. Spangler was supplied with the data within 48 hours of the hijacking and Larson was supplied with the more refined flight path data later on. The flight path was easily determined using the most sophisticated military radar with the greatest radar coverage of the age. To suggest that civilian radar was "better" than SAGE is just nonsense.

Questions for the Gunther folks: There are obviously some clues provided for the identify of Clara (born in Longview, WA in the 1930's, had siblings, had an uncle with a lakeside house in the original DZ in Clark County, etc.) I assume attempts have been made to identify Clara using the clues provided in the Gunther text. How far did you get? Were you able to zero in on anyone? What resources did you use for your research. Thanks in advance.

Well, he hasn't done an episode with you yet! LOL

The jetliner landed at 5:41. Tina retrieves the money and parachutes between 5:50 and 6:10. All passengers are off the aircraft by 5:57 Alice and Flo depart the aircraft at 6:44. The plane departed at 7:36. Based on this timeline, the pilots and Alice and Flo could have escaped the cockpit while Tina was on and off the aircraft getting the money and chutes during the time period of 5:57 and ~6:10. In fact, I think in a later interview, Rataczak laments this fact. https://norjak.org/timeline/

And yet, you haven't provided a thing pointing toward that supposition except casting vague aspirations at various government agencies. Provide some real, compelling evidence for it and I - and presumably everyone else - will listen. Until then, you remain alone in the Vortex in this belief. And now back to our regularly scheduled programming...

Correct. No argument there. Correct. No argument there. I have done the same and received a similar response. No argument there. The government in general, and the FBI specifically, is commonly known to be hesitant when it comes to releasing public records. This isn't anything new or particularly illuminating. It's just how government, unfortunately, works. Mark Zaid had to literally sue the FBI for them to release the Cooper files. They are under no obligation to do so. Regarding the redacted transcript document, why would they refer to something that doesn't exist? There are no redacted Seattle ATC transcripts, so why would they even mention them? You keep saying this without evidence. The two transcripts were prepared by different people at different locations. Those differences are not evidence of anything nefarious. Those navigators worked aboard C-130s and C-141 which were transport planes used to drop men and material. Both navigators were also tasked with becoming drop experts so that when something went out the back it ended up where it was supposed to. Those two men were far more qualified to calculate a DZ than any civilian skydiver. Soderlind and Major Thomas Spangler looked at and used the exact same data and arrived at the exact same conclusion and identical DZs. So, where exactly is the evidence that the Seattle ATC transcripts were redacted? Or are you going to obfuscate again by listing your qualifications? Or refer me to the FAA handbook again? Or tell me to go back and look at your previous posts? Robert, you've been humping this dog for 15 years and still haven't made any puppies. Might be time to accept that you're a different species. (Metaphorically speaking, of course.)

* Please see post #63451

Again, none of this is evidence that the Seattle ATC transcripts have been redacted, altered or otherwise different from the originals. Moreover, you seem to be implying some kind of cover up by the FBIor FAA, but have provided even less evidence in that regard. As I have said, again and again, if you have evidence for a massive cover up in the NORJAK case that includes these mysterious redactions, please provide some evidence.

Resumes don't solve cases. People do. It is not the responsibility of the FBI to prove to you that they are complete. It is your responsibility to demonstrate that they are not. You have so far failed to do so.

As has been pointed out to you repeatedly, there is no evidence of redactions in the Seattle ATC radio transcripts.

This has been pointed out by you and only you. In 15 years, you have presented no evidence that the Seattle ATC transcripts are incorrect, inaccurate, or incomplete.

Those transcripts were released many years ago: https://norjak.org/files/

HEY FBI GIVE US THE FULL TRANSCRIPT OF COMMUNICATIONS BETWEEN FLIGHT 305 AND NWA GROUND PERSONNEL SINCERELY, THE VORTEX